Corvette's Rival
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
From: GA (some days)
I'm thinking that there isn't any rule here that stipulates every post has to include the words "Corvette" and or "Vette" or any other word directly associated with Corvette.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
B.s.!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Feb 27, 2013 at 08:21 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Bs!
:
Racer
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 448
Likes: 0
just call the damn porsche dealership,..and ask them!,..which i just did!,..and they said,..and i quote,..."sorry,..that car isn't being made anymore,..there will possibly be a 991 version of it, coming out in 2015 or so,..but you can't order any gt2's right now,..nor any gt3's as of yet,...or turbo's,..just the carrera, and carrera s,..and just now,..the carrera 4s",..so,..you must be looking at a 2010 gt2,..there are still some being sold as used, yes,..and , or,...possibly one that was NEVER sold back then,..but NO WAY can you order a gt2 now!,..ya have to wait for the 991 iteration,....
Last edited by geezerman; Feb 27, 2013 at 08:15 PM. Reason: spelling
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
The dedicated track cars better be worried!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
O.K. now perhaps, but?
just call the damn porsche dealership,..and ask them!,..which i just did!,..and they said,..and i quote,..."sorry,..that car isn't being made anymore,..there will possibly be a 991 version of it, coming out in 2015 or so,..but you can't order any gt2's right now,..nor any gt3's as of yet,...or turbo's,..just the carrera, and carrera s,..and just now,..the carrera 4s",..so,..you must be looking at a 2010 gt2,..there are still some being sold as used, yes,..and , or,...possibly one that was NEVER sold back then,..but NO WAY can you order a gt2 now!,..ya have to wait for the 991 iteration,....Why can I get a lisitng for a 2012, and not say a 2009?
Are several softwares just extending the 2011 Guibo sold out date or is Guibo just dressing things up a bit?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Feb 27, 2013 at 08:30 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
From: GA (some days)
Porsche has cared so little about their Ring lap times that until the 991 video on the Ring they have never provided anything other than the lap times they record secondary to the testing they do at the Ring. And before attempting to accuse Porsche of not releasing anything other than the lap times (that is, no videos) because they are embarrassed by the results, or they use segmented times, or that their cars can't actually achieve those lap times, remember that the bottom line is... 1) Porsche uses the Ring for TESTING and not as a "competition", 2) Porsche doesn't need Ring lap times to sell their cars, 3) Porsche is not worried about the Vette, and 4) Porsche could produce a street car capable of running sub-7 minute laps any time they want.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,989
Likes: 57
From: Peoples Republik of MD & Sarasota FL
I haven't seen anything that indicates they have fallen short of building a pre-eminent sports car. The M3 is a good choice if you need a back seat but it can't run with the Vette. BMW interior is plain and isn't as nice as the C6 interior.
911s are in the running but put equal drivers in a 911 street car and in a C6 GS and you will have equal performance. Make the Vette a Z06 and the 911 gets left in the dust. I see it happen at track events all the time. I sit in those other cars riding as an instructor and know what the interiors are like. The so called supportive seats in a BMW M3 don't hold you in place any better than the Vette seats and their seat belts don't have a cinch feature. When I am going to be pulling Gs I prefer riding in a stock Vette over riding in a stock 3 or 5 series because the Vette's cinch feature adds extra support and I don't have to use the door handle as much. At the end of the day it makes a difference in how sore your arm muscles get.
As it stands the C7 has a bunch of things added that improved on the C6's already great track performance.
Maybe you should go to a track and see what happens Vs watching Top Gear which is a show about entertainment Vs truth.
Bill
911s are in the running but put equal drivers in a 911 street car and in a C6 GS and you will have equal performance. Make the Vette a Z06 and the 911 gets left in the dust. I see it happen at track events all the time. I sit in those other cars riding as an instructor and know what the interiors are like. The so called supportive seats in a BMW M3 don't hold you in place any better than the Vette seats and their seat belts don't have a cinch feature. When I am going to be pulling Gs I prefer riding in a stock Vette over riding in a stock 3 or 5 series because the Vette's cinch feature adds extra support and I don't have to use the door handle as much. At the end of the day it makes a difference in how sore your arm muscles get.
As it stands the C7 has a bunch of things added that improved on the C6's already great track performance.
Maybe you should go to a track and see what happens Vs watching Top Gear which is a show about entertainment Vs truth.
Bill
I find the C6/C7's competition to be quite limited given it's price point vs it's purpose and performance. I used to think a 911 (at least the 997) was a good competitor but the 991 price point has gone in the stratosphere. Great car but man its overpriced.
I am looking forward to the C7. I love the styling and the pictures I have seen on the interior looks so promising.
Last edited by ALMS21; Feb 27, 2013 at 09:20 PM.
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
I bet your one of those kind of guys that starts to spit when he talks fast.
You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts that the G8 (Holden REBADGED FOR PONTIAC, NOW CHEVROLET), is the same car. Updated and a better interior, but it's the same car. Same sheet metal, for the most part. The G8's misfortune was it was introduced during a collapse of the economy, and when GM decided to kill pontiac. But, it's back, like it or not.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...rolet-ss-sedan
"The Chevy SS is based on the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that was developed by Holden, GM's Australian brand. The Zeta platform underpins several Holden vehicles, the current Chevrolet Camaro and, for all you trivia buffs out there, the Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue. The arrival of the 2014 Chevrolet SS marks something of a U.S. reunion for the car, since it originally appeared as the Pontiac G8 back in 2008. When GM axed the Pontiac division, we were robbed of this impressive Aussie performance sedan."
You keep talking about Fords as having "large, lazy V8's". 5.0L might sound large to the ricer crowd, but it's kinda small. And it's a 7000 rpm engine. Higher on the Boss, I believe.
And, I have news for you, no BMW is a "supercar". There's a reason most lease these cars, and a reason for free maintenence, coinciding with the aproximate lease durations. Fortunately, the E60 seems somewhat reliable, otherwise, I wouldn't consider it. I badly wanted an E39, but it's a joke to own one, considering how unreliable they are.
Most BMW enthusiats understand the oil change intervals are a joke and designed to get cheaply through the lease duration. Many engines, when opened up, show sludge.
BTW, the M6 and M3 are 2 doors..you're the genius that brought up comparing 4 doors.
You can deny it all you want, but it doesn't change the facts that the G8 (Holden REBADGED FOR PONTIAC, NOW CHEVROLET), is the same car. Updated and a better interior, but it's the same car. Same sheet metal, for the most part. The G8's misfortune was it was introduced during a collapse of the economy, and when GM decided to kill pontiac. But, it's back, like it or not.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/future-c...rolet-ss-sedan
"The Chevy SS is based on the rear-wheel-drive Zeta platform that was developed by Holden, GM's Australian brand. The Zeta platform underpins several Holden vehicles, the current Chevrolet Camaro and, for all you trivia buffs out there, the Chinese-market Buick Park Avenue. The arrival of the 2014 Chevrolet SS marks something of a U.S. reunion for the car, since it originally appeared as the Pontiac G8 back in 2008. When GM axed the Pontiac division, we were robbed of this impressive Aussie performance sedan."
You keep talking about Fords as having "large, lazy V8's". 5.0L might sound large to the ricer crowd, but it's kinda small. And it's a 7000 rpm engine. Higher on the Boss, I believe.
And, I have news for you, no BMW is a "supercar". There's a reason most lease these cars, and a reason for free maintenence, coinciding with the aproximate lease durations. Fortunately, the E60 seems somewhat reliable, otherwise, I wouldn't consider it. I badly wanted an E39, but it's a joke to own one, considering how unreliable they are.
Most BMW enthusiats understand the oil change intervals are a joke and designed to get cheaply through the lease duration. Many engines, when opened up, show sludge.
BTW, the M6 and M3 are 2 doors..you're the genius that brought up comparing 4 doors.
No, 5.0L would be large to just about anyone outside of North America. BMW had a 7000 rpm 5.0L V8...in 1998.
If you are buying for reliability, why not buy a G8, CTS, or 300C? I seriously doubt a more complex E60 is anymore reliable than an E39. You're basically trading one snobmobile for another, right?
Is Ford still putting their metal spin-on oil canister filters on the bottom of the engine where it's a b*tch to get to and which has a tendency to spill everywhere? BMW's filters are easily access, right up on top and are only an element (less material waste). You're talking a non-issue.
I didn't compare the M5 to the ZL1/GT500. You did. I've only been talking about the 5er because you brought that up as a purchasing choice.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,636
Likes: 6
http://www.edmunds.com/porsche/911/2...tml?sub=gt2-rs
Why can I get a lisitng for a 2012, and not say a 2009? Are several softwares just extending the 2011 Guibo sold out date or is Guibo just dressing things up a bit?
Why can I get a lisitng for a 2012, and not say a 2009?
Are several softwares just extending the 2011 Guibo sold out date or is Guibo just dressing things up a bit?If you can't be bothered to call your dealer, go ahead and try to configure one online:
http://www.porsche.com/usa/
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,578
Likes: 61
From: Austin TX
And you don't think the M3 was likewise introduced during the collapse of the economy? Pontiac, like its umbrella, was in a downward spiral long before the collapse. GM was bleeding 10s of billions of dollars in some years before the collapse. If it's just a rebadged G8, then why the 3-4 year gap? Like I said: GM isn't dumb enough to repeat two miserable failures like that in succession. If there were people lined up, they would have found a way to get the cars to them.
No, 5.0L would be large to just about anyone outside of North America. BMW had a 7000 rpm 5.0L V8...in 1998.
If you are buying for reliability, why not buy a G8, CTS, or 300C? I seriously doubt a more complex E60 is anymore reliable than an E39. You're basically trading one snobmobile for another, right?
Is Ford still putting their metal spin-on oil canister filters on the bottom of the engine where it's a b*tch to get to and which has a tendency to spill everywhere? BMW's filters are easily access, right up on top and are only an element (less material waste). You're talking a non-issue.
I didn't compare the M5 to the ZL1/GT500. You did. I've only been talking about the 5er because you brought that up as a purchasing choice.
No, 5.0L would be large to just about anyone outside of North America. BMW had a 7000 rpm 5.0L V8...in 1998.
If you are buying for reliability, why not buy a G8, CTS, or 300C? I seriously doubt a more complex E60 is anymore reliable than an E39. You're basically trading one snobmobile for another, right?
Is Ford still putting their metal spin-on oil canister filters on the bottom of the engine where it's a b*tch to get to and which has a tendency to spill everywhere? BMW's filters are easily access, right up on top and are only an element (less material waste). You're talking a non-issue.
I didn't compare the M5 to the ZL1/GT500. You did. I've only been talking about the 5er because you brought that up as a purchasing choice.
The G8 and the SS are the same car, more or less. This car is actually a Holden, produced in Australia and imported to the U.S. Pontiac did not make it. Is that clear? So, when Pontiac died, the G8 name died, but the car was, and still is, produced by Holden. It was also rebadged as a chevrolet "Lumina" in other countries.
But, forget the G8, that's just another distraction you threw out there.
So, BMW had a V8 that revved to 7k in 98'? Who cares? Jesus, you can't stay focused on what you're talking about.
I'm surprised you haven't included certain aircraft.
Now you're wanting to talk oil filter placement. As if 99% of BMW owner can even open a hood.. lol
Let me know when you find the dipstick..keep looking..keep looking..
Last edited by AirBusPilot; Feb 27, 2013 at 10:42 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,000
Likes: 2,261
Do understand that there is no such thing as a "Manufacturers Ring Lap Time Competition"? Until you get on board and accept that there is no official competition, and that there isn't even any "lap protocol" you're going to continue spinning your wheels over nothing.
Porsche has cared so little about their Ring lap times that until the 991 video on the Ring they have never provided anything other than the lap times they record secondary to the testing they do at the Ring. And before attempting to accuse Porsche of not releasing anything other than the lap times (that is, no videos) because they are embarrassed by the results, or they use segmented times, or that their cars can't actually achieve those lap times, remember that the bottom line is... 1) Porsche uses the Ring for TESTING and not as a "competition", 2) Porsche doesn't need Ring lap times to sell their cars, 3) Porsche is not worried about the Vette, and 4) Porsche could produce a street car capable of running sub-7 minute laps any time they want.
Porsche has cared so little about their Ring lap times that until the 991 video on the Ring they have never provided anything other than the lap times they record secondary to the testing they do at the Ring. And before attempting to accuse Porsche of not releasing anything other than the lap times (that is, no videos) because they are embarrassed by the results, or they use segmented times, or that their cars can't actually achieve those lap times, remember that the bottom line is... 1) Porsche uses the Ring for TESTING and not as a "competition", 2) Porsche doesn't need Ring lap times to sell their cars, 3) Porsche is not worried about the Vette, and 4) Porsche could produce a street car capable of running sub-7 minute laps any time they want.
That way we would all understand it better.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 1,255
From: Carmel CA
Do understand that there is no such thing as a "Manufacturers Ring Lap Time Competition"? Until you get on board and accept that there is no official competition, and that there isn't even any "lap protocol" you're going to continue spinning your wheels over nothing.
Porsche has cared so little about their Ring lap times that until the 991 video on the Ring they have never provided anything other than the lap times they record secondary to the testing they do at the Ring. And before attempting to accuse Porsche of not releasing anything other than the lap times (that is, no videos) because they are embarrassed by the results, or they use segmented times, or that their cars can't actually achieve those lap times, remember that the bottom line is... 1) Porsche uses the Ring for TESTING and not as a "competition", 2) Porsche doesn't need Ring lap times to sell their cars, 3) Porsche is not worried about the Vette, and 4) Porsche could produce a street car capable of running sub-7 minute laps any time they want.
Porsche has cared so little about their Ring lap times that until the 991 video on the Ring they have never provided anything other than the lap times they record secondary to the testing they do at the Ring. And before attempting to accuse Porsche of not releasing anything other than the lap times (that is, no videos) because they are embarrassed by the results, or they use segmented times, or that their cars can't actually achieve those lap times, remember that the bottom line is... 1) Porsche uses the Ring for TESTING and not as a "competition", 2) Porsche doesn't need Ring lap times to sell their cars, 3) Porsche is not worried about the Vette, and 4) Porsche could produce a street car capable of running sub-7 minute laps any time they want.
Notch, When are you going to wake up to the realities of Porsches Ring time manipulations. They do report their times. They've posted on Bridge to Gantry and any body that will listen to their BS segmented times. Wake Up!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 5,000
Likes: 2,261
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
From: GA (some days)
This is actually quite funny: many here see "manipulation" when in fact they aren't even playing. It's just like those posts where guys driving along think another brand sports car moving in and out of traffic coming up behind them and then passing them is attempting to "race" or challenge them, when in fact the other sports car is actually driven by a guy late for work and who doesn't give a flip about who he is passing.
Porsche isn't in any "competition" with other manufacturers at the Ring regarding some dreamed up lap time competition. Porsche's lap times are secondary (or greater) to their goal of building great road cars that sell like hotcakes. Check out Porsche's profit margin to get an idea of how they are doing. Porsche doesn't have to rely on Ring lap times to sell cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 1,255
From: Carmel CA
When are you going to understand that Porsche isn't playing in any "Ring lap time competition".
This is actually quite funny: many here see "manipulation" when in fact they aren't even playing. It's just like those posts where guys driving along think another brand sports car moving in and out of traffic coming up behind them and then passing them is attempting to "race" or challenge them, when in fact the other sports car is actually driven by a guy late for work and who doesn't give a flip about who he is passing.
Porsche isn't in any "competition" with other manufacturers at the Ring regarding some dreamed up lap time competition. Porsche's lap times are secondary (or greater) to their goal of building great road cars that sell like hotcakes. Check out Porsche's profit margin to get an idea of how they are doing. Porsche doesn't have to rely on Ring lap times to sell cars.
This is actually quite funny: many here see "manipulation" when in fact they aren't even playing. It's just like those posts where guys driving along think another brand sports car moving in and out of traffic coming up behind them and then passing them is attempting to "race" or challenge them, when in fact the other sports car is actually driven by a guy late for work and who doesn't give a flip about who he is passing.
Porsche isn't in any "competition" with other manufacturers at the Ring regarding some dreamed up lap time competition. Porsche's lap times are secondary (or greater) to their goal of building great road cars that sell like hotcakes. Check out Porsche's profit margin to get an idea of how they are doing. Porsche doesn't have to rely on Ring lap times to sell cars.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,886
Likes: 1,255
From: Carmel CA
When Jeremy Clarkson said Porsche had the laziest designers in the world he was actually understating the reality. I laughed when he also said " I would never buy a Porsche, someone might see me in it. Hilarious!!!!
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 3,799
Likes: 0
From: GA (some days)
"Consider their Ring times"?...well of course they consider them. How else can they benefit from the testing if they don't consider them?? I have never said that Porsche doesn't consider them. I said they aren't in any "Ring competition".
And simply stating what their cars lap times are does not in any way indicate that they are in some kind of (unofficial) competition.
Have you read any of the rest of the posts in this thread?
Do you for a skinny minute believe that someone seriously considering a 911 does some research and finds out that the 911 they are considering laps the Ring in an unofficial time of 7.XX, and then finds out that some Vette has an unofficial lap time XX seconds lower than the Porsche and then simply chooses the Vette over the Porsche based on this, when he will likely NEVER drive either car on the Ring and on the 0.00001% chance that he does he will not come close to achieving the same time that an extremely experienced factory driver achieved?
And simply stating what their cars lap times are does not in any way indicate that they are in some kind of (unofficial) competition.
Have you read any of the rest of the posts in this thread?
Do you for a skinny minute believe that someone seriously considering a 911 does some research and finds out that the 911 they are considering laps the Ring in an unofficial time of 7.XX, and then finds out that some Vette has an unofficial lap time XX seconds lower than the Porsche and then simply chooses the Vette over the Porsche based on this, when he will likely NEVER drive either car on the Ring and on the 0.00001% chance that he does he will not come close to achieving the same time that an extremely experienced factory driver achieved?