Legit question
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 10,355
Likes: 12
[QUOTE=Big Dan 427;1583968863][QUOTE=rcallen484;1583968823]Just as an aside, I would take this baby in a split second and if someone asked me what size the tires were I would say: " What? Seriously. What ? "
Agreed! Is that the Ferris Bueller California 265 GTB?
250 SWB GT. Some website says this:
The Ferrari 250 GT SWB California Spyder from 1963 is undoubtedly one of the most
beautiful cars that the Italian automobile manufacturer has ever delivered to its customers.
For the design of the 250 GT SWB California Spyder commissioned Enzo Ferrari the Italian
design firm Pininfarina. For the implementation of the plans, the Carrozzeria Scaglietti was
responsible. This car with the number 53 (there were only 55 units built) is not only one of
the most beautiful but also most expensive copies. A British car dealer currently has the
dream car for 7.8 million U.S. dollars (equivalent to 6.2 million Euro). One reason for the
high price is the extreme rarity of the vehicle. Thus, according to current information, there
are only three road worthy vehicles and the one used in “Charlie’s Angels 2? .
The reason for the price will be, due to the recent history of the Ferrari 250 GT SWB California
Spyder, that no other than Cameron Diaz drove her in the movie “Charlie’s Angels 2?. Before
the vehicle was shown in the TV series “Fastlane”. Three years ago, the Ferrari 250 GT SWB
California Spyder was completely overhauled, which lasted about two years, according to the
seller. The Italian classic is powered by a 3-liter V12 engine which delivers 280 hp and has a
SWB (shorter wheel base). In 1960, the wheel base of the model has been reduced to 2400 mm.
In 2008, a 250 GT SWB California Spyder was sold in the home town of the manufacturer,
Maranello, for 6.4 million Euro.
Agreed! Is that the Ferris Bueller California 265 GTB?
The Ferrari 250 GT SWB California Spyder from 1963 is undoubtedly one of the most
beautiful cars that the Italian automobile manufacturer has ever delivered to its customers.
For the design of the 250 GT SWB California Spyder commissioned Enzo Ferrari the Italian
design firm Pininfarina. For the implementation of the plans, the Carrozzeria Scaglietti was
responsible. This car with the number 53 (there were only 55 units built) is not only one of
the most beautiful but also most expensive copies. A British car dealer currently has the
dream car for 7.8 million U.S. dollars (equivalent to 6.2 million Euro). One reason for the
high price is the extreme rarity of the vehicle. Thus, according to current information, there
are only three road worthy vehicles and the one used in “Charlie’s Angels 2? .
The reason for the price will be, due to the recent history of the Ferrari 250 GT SWB California
Spyder, that no other than Cameron Diaz drove her in the movie “Charlie’s Angels 2?. Before
the vehicle was shown in the TV series “Fastlane”. Three years ago, the Ferrari 250 GT SWB
California Spyder was completely overhauled, which lasted about two years, according to the
seller. The Italian classic is powered by a 3-liter V12 engine which delivers 280 hp and has a
SWB (shorter wheel base). In 1960, the wheel base of the model has been reduced to 2400 mm.
In 2008, a 250 GT SWB California Spyder was sold in the home town of the manufacturer,
Maranello, for 6.4 million Euro.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
To fit a wider wheel and tire don't worry about the wheel being wider but just figure on the wider tire dimensions on its spec wheel width. Next issue, wheel offset is critical.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
C7
245/40-18, 9.7" section width, 25.7" diameter, 8.5" wheel
285/35-19, 11.4" section width, 26.9" diameter, 10" wheel
C6 GS
275/35-18, 10.9" section width, 25.6" diameter, 9.5" wheel, (9.5" wheel is spec for the tire size)
325/30-19, 13" section width, 26.7" diameter, 12" wheel, (11.5" wheel is spec for the tire size)
So here, the wider front tire needs 15mm more clearance on the outside and 15mm more clearance on the inside. (If 15mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 30mm more clearance.)
And the wider rear tire needs 20mm more clearance on the outside and 20mm more clearance on the inside. (If 20mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 40mm more clearance.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
C7 Z51
245/35-19, 9.8" section width, 25.8" diameter, 8.5" wheel width
285/30-20, 11.4" section width, 26.8" diameter, 10" wheel width
Possible alternative
265/35-19, 10.4" section width, 26.3" diameter, 9.5" wheel width
305/30-20, 12.5" section width, 27.3" diameter, 11" wheel width
And here, the wider front tire needs 8mm more outside clearance and 8mm more inside clearance. (If 8mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 16mm more clearance.)
Next, the wider rear tire needs 14mm more outside clearance and 14mm more inside clearance. (If 14mm more insider wheel offset were used then the inside would need 28mm more clearance.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
But looking at the photos of the C7, I'm thinking that the outside can handle the wider tire. That means attempt the stock C7 wheel offset with the wider wheels.
Also, lowering the car can help fit wider tires because the camber of the wheel (and the faster camber curve) can help outside clearance but also find some inside clearance by moving the tire higher in the lateral fender space. Of course it doesn't help if the tire radius tops-out in the vertical fender space
.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
C7
245/40-18, 9.7" section width, 25.7" diameter, 8.5" wheel
285/35-19, 11.4" section width, 26.9" diameter, 10" wheel
C6 GS
275/35-18, 10.9" section width, 25.6" diameter, 9.5" wheel, (9.5" wheel is spec for the tire size)
325/30-19, 13" section width, 26.7" diameter, 12" wheel, (11.5" wheel is spec for the tire size)
So here, the wider front tire needs 15mm more clearance on the outside and 15mm more clearance on the inside. (If 15mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 30mm more clearance.)
And the wider rear tire needs 20mm more clearance on the outside and 20mm more clearance on the inside. (If 20mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 40mm more clearance.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
C7 Z51
245/35-19, 9.8" section width, 25.8" diameter, 8.5" wheel width
285/30-20, 11.4" section width, 26.8" diameter, 10" wheel width
Possible alternative
265/35-19, 10.4" section width, 26.3" diameter, 9.5" wheel width
305/30-20, 12.5" section width, 27.3" diameter, 11" wheel width
And here, the wider front tire needs 8mm more outside clearance and 8mm more inside clearance. (If 8mm more inside wheel offset were used then the inside would need 16mm more clearance.)
Next, the wider rear tire needs 14mm more outside clearance and 14mm more inside clearance. (If 14mm more insider wheel offset were used then the inside would need 28mm more clearance.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
But looking at the photos of the C7, I'm thinking that the outside can handle the wider tire. That means attempt the stock C7 wheel offset with the wider wheels.
Also, lowering the car can help fit wider tires because the camber of the wheel (and the faster camber curve) can help outside clearance but also find some inside clearance by moving the tire higher in the lateral fender space. Of course it doesn't help if the tire radius tops-out in the vertical fender space
.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
Yeah, I know Roger. He and Ari were in my SEMA booth in 2011 I believe it was. I introduced he and Ari to Dave Smith (CEO Factory Five, also friend of mine). Chris left in 2012 I believe. Was kind of surprised because he was becoming a partner I'd heard...then something went bad. He is pursuing ventures with his fathers company, along with other things. We stay in contact. Chris was the shiny headed bald guy that ate, slept and cut grass in red driving shoes...lol.
I just uploaded this clip...vid doesn't do the noise justice, plus vid slows everything. Pat was bookin that day...haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMOl...ature=youtu.be
I just uploaded this clip...vid doesn't do the noise justice, plus vid slows everything. Pat was bookin that day...haha.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiMOl...ature=youtu.be
FF has some nice stuff, more back yard builder neat project cars. I owned a Superformance Cobra with a Roush 427 small block, most fun I've ever had in a car.
Thanks for the clip, will watch later. I have some good stuff from MMC in the RS and Viper, what a nice track. I discussed with Roger getting a Corvette Forum track day but they really aren't into doing big club days anymore, I think all the rich members aren't real keen on it.
Glad to have a good chat with you, better than arguing!!
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,223
Likes: 441
From: Pennsylvania
The question is..a bigger tire for looks and style. Or a bigger tire for performance, which includes traction, noise, ride, and efficient operation. In my opinion I will stay with the equipment that the engineers designed.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,372
Likes: 311
From: Bristol, VT
Well I guess my response would be have they been wrong for all these years then? Who has the fastest times ever at LS? And those two American behemoths weren't wearing 285's or even 305's. More simply put do you think the SRT or ZR1 would run 1:33's on 285's and if they could well then why aren't they wearing them? This is the basis of my thread, not to conflict about it but to try and figure what is better.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Think they may have had a reason to do so?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
You guys bring up some good points that can all be debated. I'm no tire engineer but to me it seems that they could have accomplished the same if not better results with a wider tire, I can't imagine at all why it would be a detriment for if it was we wouldn't have cars with 325's plus. And to Bills point yes there is something to be said for the look it gives off, that is why I posted the pics of the ACR.
Corvette Stories
The Best of Corvette for Corvette Enthusiasts
Top 10 Most Expensive Corvettes Ever Sold on Bring A Trailer
Brett Foote
10 Things Every Corvette Owner Needs (2026 Edition)
Michael S. Palmer
8 Most "Only Corvette Owners Understand" Quirks and Problems
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Reasons the C6 Z06 is Still A Performance Benchmark After 20 Years
Joe Kucinski
How Much Horsepower Every Corvette Engine "LOST" in 1972
Joe Kucinski
Top 10 DOs and DON'Ts for Protecting Your Convertible Top!
Michael S. Palmer
Top 10 Most Explosive Corvettes Ever Made: Power-to-Weight Ratio Ranked!
Joe Kucinski
150 hp to 1,250 hp: Every Corvette Generation Compared by the Specs That Matter
Joe Kucinski
8 Coolest Corvette Pace Cars (and Replicas) of All Time
Verdad Gallardo
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
GM did not stop at 325 on the ZR1, they have 335's. And SRT has the biggest factory footprint out there at 355. And yes the wide body is better looking! And yes my wide backyard is better! And yes my wide money maker is better! Are we done with yet?
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
@ RCallen484, nice write up on the Ferrari. I wanted to PM you but it appears your incoming PM is blocked. If you can shoot me a PM, maybe I can reply w/out you having to "open" up that window.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 41,732
Likes: 1,718
From: Springfield MO
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
Correct me if I'm wrong Kappa but the base 2013 has a 285 on it and a GS has a 325, why would it be delusional for the 2014 base to have a 305? They could have just as easily developed the same tire that is going on the C7 but in a 305. It is my feeling that they are simply playing the up the ladder game like on current models which makes perfect sense. I can guarantee you if they build a C7 GS it won't have 285's on it.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 1,174
Correct me if I'm wrong Kappa but the base 2013 has a 285 on it and a GS has a 325, why would it be delusional for the 2014 base to have a 305? They could have just as easily developed the same tire that is going on the C7 but in a 305. It is my feeling that they are simply playing the up the ladder game like on current models which makes perfect sense. I can guarantee you if they build a C7 GS it won't have 285's on it.
I agree with many that the 285 is likely more than enough given compound technology and also that they need to be able to up the size for hi-po models later. I also bet the ZO6 won't be wider than the current car and could be narrower given improvements in tech.
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,945
Likes: 41
From: Corinth TX
It's really quite amazing how you twist things into a totally skewed perspective.
The C7 Z51 isn't targeting a Viper.
Engineering is building to suit a specific requirement based upon your goals, needs, costs, etc. Would the C7 Z51 have MORE GRIP on a compound it's tire will use, but at 305mm...SURE...is it necessary to achieve the goal set forth for the car....NO.
You can put the big wide tire on there...then you face the cost of the tire, the cost of the wider rim, the all weather performance factor, road noise, etc.
For market the C7 lives in, the 285 is adequate and provides better fuel efficiency and better aero characteristics. It's the best tire for the prescribed job.
SRT's Viper is what I call a "stupid simple" car. The Corvette has always been more advanced and more refined than the Viper, and always will be unless they start selling more cars. The Viper takes the bigger is better approach, and for guys like you...that floats your boat. I have 345's on my C5Z...sure, I like a big *** tire...but the facts are the facts....they cost more to employ, they are less fuel/aerodynamically efficient, and the car already exceeds 95% of typical owners driving capabilities...including yours.
Your little LS record statement...that comparison doesn't even make sense. The original test had the ZR1 beating the Viper with a smaller tire. Viper took the stupid simple approach and somehow came out with a new model in a week and slapped some aero parts on and ta da....now they win.
Corvette can do it better than SRT...on less motor, on less tire, for less money....just look at ALMS for God's sake. We run a 5.5 liter, they run an 8.0 liter...and they have a BIGGER diameter air intake restrictor just to be competitive...lol. The fact they have 8.0 liters versus our 5.5 isn't enough for them to make the same performance. Corvette has a FAR more developed car, FAR bigger budget to develop the car and MUCH more racing success than Viper/SRT. The end...
The C7 Z51 isn't targeting a Viper.
Engineering is building to suit a specific requirement based upon your goals, needs, costs, etc. Would the C7 Z51 have MORE GRIP on a compound it's tire will use, but at 305mm...SURE...is it necessary to achieve the goal set forth for the car....NO.
You can put the big wide tire on there...then you face the cost of the tire, the cost of the wider rim, the all weather performance factor, road noise, etc.
For market the C7 lives in, the 285 is adequate and provides better fuel efficiency and better aero characteristics. It's the best tire for the prescribed job.
SRT's Viper is what I call a "stupid simple" car. The Corvette has always been more advanced and more refined than the Viper, and always will be unless they start selling more cars. The Viper takes the bigger is better approach, and for guys like you...that floats your boat. I have 345's on my C5Z...sure, I like a big *** tire...but the facts are the facts....they cost more to employ, they are less fuel/aerodynamically efficient, and the car already exceeds 95% of typical owners driving capabilities...including yours.
Your little LS record statement...that comparison doesn't even make sense. The original test had the ZR1 beating the Viper with a smaller tire. Viper took the stupid simple approach and somehow came out with a new model in a week and slapped some aero parts on and ta da....now they win.
Corvette can do it better than SRT...on less motor, on less tire, for less money....just look at ALMS for God's sake. We run a 5.5 liter, they run an 8.0 liter...and they have a BIGGER diameter air intake restrictor just to be competitive...lol. The fact they have 8.0 liters versus our 5.5 isn't enough for them to make the same performance. Corvette has a FAR more developed car, FAR bigger budget to develop the car and MUCH more racing success than Viper/SRT. The end...
Remove those damn restrictor plates and let the cars motor run the way it was designed to run and there would be no comparison.
As for the size of the tires, hey if they can get the performance they are looking for out of the 285s, then more power to them. But if they can get more out of a bigger tire, they should offer that as a factory option. Not everyone is a wax and polish person.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
Hey gthal where've you been? All you say makes sense but who knows what the brain trust at GM has going on upstairs?
As for a C7 ZO6's width I would think from an aesthetic point of view it would look silly if narrower, even with aero/tech improvements. Remember that as much as we all debate the function and performance of change we all also pony up to buy something based on how we feel it looks and that includes things like tire meat, body shape/width and the overall curb appeal. Look at a C2, even though those skinny tires would look ridiculous on a C6/7 they look perfectly normal on a 2. That being said I've seen some resto mod
C2's with big rubber underneath that looks great. To me and this is my opinion smaller width tires on modern day sports cars looks out of place as functional as it may be!
As for a C7 ZO6's width I would think from an aesthetic point of view it would look silly if narrower, even with aero/tech improvements. Remember that as much as we all debate the function and performance of change we all also pony up to buy something based on how we feel it looks and that includes things like tire meat, body shape/width and the overall curb appeal. Look at a C2, even though those skinny tires would look ridiculous on a C6/7 they look perfectly normal on a 2. That being said I've seen some resto mod
C2's with big rubber underneath that looks great. To me and this is my opinion smaller width tires on modern day sports cars looks out of place as functional as it may be!
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,873
Likes: 614
As for looks, that's really irrelevant in the big picture. Of course, most people on here can't and refuse to see past that.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,873
Likes: 614
Correct me if I'm wrong Kappa but the base 2013 has a 285 on it and a GS has a 325, why would it be delusional for the 2014 base to have a 305? They could have just as easily developed the same tire that is going on the C7 but in a 305. It is my feeling that they are simply playing the up the ladder game like on current models which makes perfect sense. I can guarantee you if they build a C7 GS it won't have 285's on it.
This isn't about looks. Tire compounds have allowed them to have a 285 that gets more grip, better fuel economy, and better aerodynamics than the 325's on the C6 GS.
Will a bigger tire probably be coming? Sure. Is it needed for the C7 base and Z51? No.
Thread Starter
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,377
Likes: 1
From: Danbury CT
@ Kappa, silly question here but I'll ask it anyway. If a C6 or7 had C2 size rubber on it and it performed amazingly would you buy it? It would look ridiculous and it would absolutely turn off most people. To say looks have nothing to do with spending upwards of 60k is kind of silly.