My story has been very consistent. Never did I say that GM considered the Viper as a competitor and where you are taking that from my words is a mystery to me. I said the uplevel Corvette and Viper would be competitors. But seeing as how you are not able to grasp what I said, let me put this another way. I agree that GM can target whatever car they want. But they don't control which cars ultimately become competitors in the marketplace - the customers decide that.

You are certainly free to disagree with me, but when you take my statements out of context I'm going to come back and explain what my meaning was. I don't claim that I always explain things as clearly to others as they are in my mind, and I certainly have known you long enough on the forum that I don't mean to get in a pissing contest with you. So please accept that I am clarifying my meaning.

 

2006 Z06 is lighter..nanar nanar...j/k

 

Lot's of "tuners" and suppliers offer warranties. But collecting on them is not always easy. I've seen plenty of examples where the tuner or supplier gets in a pissing match over what actually caused the failure. You are also at the mercy of where you can have the car worked on, and whether the company is still around.

Edelbrock has been around forever and probably means well. But that doesn't mean it will be like taking a bone stock Chevy to a local Chevy dealer for warranty work.

 

 

gm regular production code (rpo) same as the z28 and the z06 will be the same for the z07.

 

^ Could you restate that into a complete sentence and provide the GM Official Source location confirming a high-pro version of the Stingray . . . or do you just want to continue playing in your magazine mis-information world?

Or let's just conclude it this way. According to Talon90, one of the most informed and respected long term contributors to the Forum:

"There has not been anything official on the plans, proposals or even existence of a high performance variant of the Stingray. What GM is willing and able to talk about at this point and the foreseeable future is the 2014 Stingray coupe and convertible. Anything beyond that and everything you have seen published to this point is pure speculation"

You might want to reconsider your all knowing and powerful OZ proclamation of facts to others (" if your buying a new c7 you might want to keep this in mind . there will be a 600hp. + z07 but no zr1 in the coming 2016 yr" ) until and unless your sources on information are more than glossy covered monthly magazines . . . .

 

[QUOTE=michaelinmech;1584850711]^ Could you restate that into a complete sentence and provide the GM Official Source location confirming a high-pro version of the Stingray . . . or do you just want to continue playing in your magazine mis-information world?

Or let's just conclude it this way. According to Talon90, one of the most informed and respected long term contributors to the Forum:

"There has not been anything official on the plans, proposals or even existence of a high performance variant of the Stingray. What GM is willing and able to talk about at this point and the foreseeable future is the 2014 Stingray coupe and convertible. Anything beyond that and everything you have seen published to this point is pure speculation.

whats your point ? if you want more info call gm......or do you just want to prove some un known point . if you don't think thier going to build one ,,,then think it . do you want me to draw you a pic.? there was no info on the c7 did you doubt gm then ?.......but think what you want ,i have no more time for you..................have a great day

 

been ordered .............3lt z51 happy trails

 

My point is that I believe anything is possible with regard to upcoming C7 variants. I disagree with your authoritative definitions of exactly what and when they will consist of, to the point of advising potential buyers what they should consider. The President of GM says no decision on the C7 variant or power train - but you don't his admonition stand in your way.

And Happy Trails to you too, Lastcowboy . . . . . it's been real.

 

You think that in the marketplace most potential buyers cross shop the Vette and Viper? Let's test that theory. Go over to Viperclub.org or, better yet, Viper Alley and make such a suggestion if you truly believe it. Show your work and the defense of same on those Forums. My guess is that you'll catch fire at your keyboard. Some of their members may actually pay you a visit. Any Corvette owner who has ever been to those Forums can tell you what happens if you so much as mention the word Corvette in the same sentence as Viper on either of those forums.

On an even more direct level, the sales numbers don't support your theory and underscore why the Viper is not on the Corvette design and engineering team's radar of late for the C7 which was benchmarked against a single car not built in Detroit.

The Viper's sales numbers have been so historically pitiable that Corvette could not remain a going concern with them. Some recent years of Viper production were suspended, plant workers furloughed and the Viper's Connor Avenue Assembly Plant was closed for the 2011 and 2012 model years when the Viper's sales numbers got so low that there was no point in continuing production. When you sell a vehicle that achieves such documented weak traction in the market from a sales standpoint then you simply don't have a business case and execution model that any manufacturer really wants to emulate in any way, shape or form.

Yes, magazine comparisons will be staged between the Corvette and Viper because they are both Americans and the power levels of the big tire Vettes (Z06/ZR1) merit an easy comparison for magazines to stage and generate the "controversy" which helps them pay the bills. So yes, one can look for those comparisons to occur. Does that mean that buyers actually cross shop the two to any appreciable degree? The basic math suggests that there is little significant effect and when there is an appreciable number it is not in the Viper's favor. Let's look at some numbers.

Since the Viper was effectively not produced for model years 2011 and 2012 due to low sales then let's use 2010 as a representative recent full year sales number. Then let's compare it against ZR1 sales for that period since it would be pointless to consider all Corvette sales as the likely Corvette buyers for Vipers will be Corvette ZR1 owners. The 2010 U.S. sales number for the ZR1 is 1,577. For the Viper...?

392.

If literally every single Viper buyer in 2010 was a Corvette ZR1 buyer then quite simply the numbers weren't enough to matter for the Viper program to continue as a going concern in 2011-12.

To the degree that there is appreciable cross shopping between the two cars it does not appear to be in the Viper's favor. The ZR1's launch was well telegraphed for the 2009 model year. So year-over-year 2008 - 2009 Viper sales should have remained unchanged or increased as Viper owners stuck to their guns and potential buyers for this new ZR1 headed off to the Viper camp. Instead, U.S. Viper sales in 2008 were 1,172.

In 2009 they were 482.

Feel free to reread that sentence and no, that 59% year-over-year drop is not a misprint. I would venture to say that it was also not a coincidence.

Btw, if you don't think Porsche buyers are seriously cross shopping the new C7 you may want to check the relevant threads on Rennlist.com. Go to the 991 section of their forum and take a look at the 2014 Corvette thread on the first page where their owner group poses exactly that question. You can't miss it. With over 300 posts it is one of the largest on the page. You may be shocked at what you read. Compare and contrast that with what you see on the various Viper forums and truly I urge you to pose the same question on the Viper forums. Assuming you survive, I think that will be a much needed object lesson for your theory.

 

I still think we will see a ultra light naturally aspirated car in 2017 with radio and A/C delete at $110K, and the supercharged ZO6 at $85K. Look at the ZL1 vs Z28.

 

Hope we see something before 2017.

 

Well from personal experience, I would cross-shop with Porsche but not Viper.

When I bought my C5, I looked at Boxsters. For my C6, I really didn't consider anything else (the Vette bug had bitten me pretty hard LOL). I have been thinking about getting a 911 (either new or perhaps CPO) but after seeing the C7 up close at Carlisle, I have probably reconsidered.

I love the 911 and would love to have one someday. But there is something about the Vette that stirs some pretty power emotions in me. It isn't that I dislike the Viper - I just never had any great desire to own one over a Vette (or a Porsche).

 

Interesting, looking back at the introduction of the C5 & C6, the cream of the crop for those series was several years into the "Plain Jane" run of production. GM will sell all they can of the standard & Z51 cars and then pump up the C7 line with a super Corvette, Z06 - Z07 - L88 - ZR1 - or some new name. It may be 600+ hp with performance components. It will happen so just hang on...

 

All I know, is if all Corvette gives me is a 60k dollar Z51 460hp option or a 100k dollar Z06/7 600hp option....they're gonna lose a LOT of buyers in my opinion, including me. I'm not buying a Z51 with no front aero, chrome trim and taking a car that under performs the past three cars I've built/owned in acceleration by a huge margin. I need AT least 500hp/500tq, more grip/aero and around 75k or I just can't do it.

A ZR1 level car HAS to exist, simply to keep Corvette on the map as a serious player. You have to have that HALO model given how many Corvette options there are. Inevitably though, the ZR1 AND Z06 didn't sell tremendous numbers of cars, though the ownership of Z badge cars are cult like followings (Z51, you don't count...never have never will..lol).

In my HUMBLE opinion, they need the Z06 AND Z07 done like this...

Z06: Basically a Z51 equipped car with a hp bump (get me to 500) using the basic LT1 architecture, but N/A only. Add in aero, better tires, better brakes, then sell it starting at 65-70k (a drop from C6). This would make a Z06 1LT a real decision versus say a 3LT Z51
Z07: Bring in the higher output engine option (600hp'ish), price this car like the Z07 of C6 era...starting mid 80k's.
ZR1: Bring this car in later in the generation with same Z07 powerplant, 120k, all out...use Pratt/Miller to develop aero, carbon brakes, maybe a sequential automated tranny, etc. to make the car ridiculous...break records with this thing.

 

While it won't help GM with cross-make rivalries, etc., as far as individual consumers are concerned (including you) don't forget Callaway and maybe some of the other premium vendors. You can rest assured they will fill any performance void left by GM with their products.

That's my plan anyway. One of the things I like about that option is it provides for an affordable upgrade path: buy the car you want now, take it to Callaway later. Or take it now; whatever floats your boat.

 

 

Excellent post, shortened in my response to save space, not as an "editorial" comment. By the way, I did just as you suggested and checked out the corvette post on rennlist.com. Interesting reading for sure. A few of my observations...
- I was surprised at the number of current 911 owners who are seriously considering the C7 (as you mentioned of course)
- Comments on the rear end design was split (as here). Some hated, some liked.
- Comments on Corvette owners were pretty funny. And I have to admit, I agree with some of them.
- Comments that Chevy dealership/service experience leaves a lot to be desired. Again I agree.
- Brand snobbery, "blah, blah... it's still a Chevy'. Equivalent to our, "it's still a Mustang" sentiments.

 

Sooooo.....will it be NA or FI ? LT4 6.2L with Eaton blower, or 5.3L V8 with twin turbos or a new 7L+ NA engine (L88 ?) Inquiring minds want to know !!

 

Wait until you see the optional vertical landing mode on the Z51 package.