New engine?
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 18,093
Likes: 1,585
Two like cars, same year, same mileage. One has had engine replaced, one hasn't. Which one would you buy???
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 1
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,329
Likes: 1
This train needs to get back on the track...the thread is about the OP's engine replacement, not the comment LIStingray made. 
Regardless of the collectible status of a car, a new car with a replaced engine will raise concerns with at least some potential buyers when the owner decides it's time to sell his Corvette. I'd want GM to buy it back.
Regardless of the collectible status of a car, a new car with a replaced engine will raise concerns with at least some potential buyers when the owner decides it's time to sell his Corvette. I'd want GM to buy it back.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 833
Likes: 2
From: Roseville CA
It would be great ideal if GM would buy the car back, but it's going to be quicker to have them replace the engine. The car is under warranty and it can't be that that hard for a competent tech to install a new engine. There have been a number of rear end replacements that solved problems and the owners weren't demanding a new car. I think you should try to let the dealer make the repairs authorized under warranty rather than fight them. A numbers matching C7 isnt going to make a bit of difference in its value if you trade or sell it. I'd go for the avenue that gets the car back for you to enjoy the fastest.
I have never checked for a matching engine number in any car that I have purchased, even my previous 2008 Corvette. To me, the only downside to getting a new engine would be having to go through the break-in period again.Sorry to distract you!
Well, before I even started dating my wife, we were spades partners in college. Our column on the score sheet would be titled "JAG" when we would play. My name is Jeremy and her name is Gina, thus the JAG for Jeremy And Gina. Well, we have five kids now so now we're not just JAG, but JAGAMAJAJARAN (using the first letter of each of our first names in order by age). And since it can actually be pronounced as a six syllable word, we use it to represent the Magnificent Seven who make up my little family!
Well, before I even started dating my wife, we were spades partners in college. Our column on the score sheet would be titled "JAG" when we would play. My name is Jeremy and her name is Gina, thus the JAG for Jeremy And Gina. Well, we have five kids now so now we're not just JAG, but JAGAMAJAJARAN (using the first letter of each of our first names in order by age). And since it can actually be pronounced as a six syllable word, we use it to represent the Magnificent Seven who make up my little family!
Brett and Ann and Brian and Michael.
Last edited by brettbolt; Dec 27, 2013 at 02:07 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
Look for a post on this forum, someone had the tube dropped in order to replace a fuel pump.
When they put the tube back, there was a very small variance, the cam wound up being marched out of its sitting, and car wound up stalling due to computers not being able to detect RPM's, which was because the cam was moved forward and out of position.
the stalling and loss of RPM signal was a symptom- in the end the engine had to be replaced.
If I find that thread here, I will link it.
When they put the tube back, there was a very small variance, the cam wound up being marched out of its sitting, and car wound up stalling due to computers not being able to detect RPM's, which was because the cam was moved forward and out of position.
the stalling and loss of RPM signal was a symptom- in the end the engine had to be replaced.
If I find that thread here, I will link it.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 551
From: North California
Engine swap is a big job. What is the chance everything will get torqued town to spec?
When you see a car on the assembly line and the marriage to the chassis happens, the engine is bolted on with the whole drive-terrain. Accessing some bolts is easy that way. Undoing something, and bolting it back on unconventionally can lead to a whole lot of loose screws, cross threading, scratched body parts, etc.
People worry about value years from now, I'd worry about how solid the car will be right after.
When you see a car on the assembly line and the marriage to the chassis happens, the engine is bolted on with the whole drive-terrain. Accessing some bolts is easy that way. Undoing something, and bolting it back on unconventionally can lead to a whole lot of loose screws, cross threading, scratched body parts, etc.
People worry about value years from now, I'd worry about how solid the car will be right after.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
Engine swap is a big job. What is the chance everything will get torqued town to spec?
When you see a car on the assembly line and the marriage to the chassis happens, the engine is bolted on with the whole drive-terrain. Accessing some bolts is easy that way. Undoing something, and bolting it back on unconventionally can lead to a whole lot of loose screws, cross threading, scratched body parts, etc.
People worry about value years from now, I'd worry about how solid the car will be right after.
When you see a car on the assembly line and the marriage to the chassis happens, the engine is bolted on with the whole drive-terrain. Accessing some bolts is easy that way. Undoing something, and bolting it back on unconventionally can lead to a whole lot of loose screws, cross threading, scratched body parts, etc.
People worry about value years from now, I'd worry about how solid the car will be right after.
If the dealership does it right, the body will be lifted above the chassis. This prevents the need to realign panels too.
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Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 4,737
Likes: 551
From: North California
My friends and I have done lots of engine swaps. I have friends that have done lots of engine swaps on C5s and C6s... I'm 100% sure there isn't an issue with a dealership doing an engine swap. It's honestly not that hard. The body is can be completely separated from the chassis and everything is completely accessible to be done correctly. I believe that people here are assuming that the engine is going to be pulled out directly from the engine bay and mated to the torque tube in the reverse fashion of putting the engine back in through the engine bay.
If the dealership does it right, the body will be lifted above the chassis. This prevents the need to realign panels too.
If the dealership does it right, the body will be lifted above the chassis. This prevents the need to realign panels too.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,526
Likes: 12
From: Los Angeles California
I know the Corvette specialist at my dealer and I know he wouldn't mess this up. I definitely trust him. After discussions with him, I know he knows more than I do, and that makes me feel a lot better. I've known plenty of mechanics that didn't know as much as I know about critical things... I'm not a mechanic, so that scares me.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,822
Likes: 64
From: Area Z51
Racer
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 313
Likes: 44
From: Little Rock AR
I agree with the difficulties you would have convincing GM to purchase the car, it might be possible, but consider this.
You'll constantly be carrying a file folder with every pertinent document in it, so that whenever GM calls, (which will be either to or from work) you'll pull over onto the shoulder of the road in something like a Prius that the dealer rented from Enterprise for you drive & argue with someone at GM that you've never met. After the sixth or seventh time doing this might reconsider & just take the new engine...
I went through that with Ford, remember the 2008 Powerstrokes that we're shooting flames out the exhaust?
On the other hand, getting a replacement, you'll end up with a selected engine that'll have additional testing & QC checks. Not to mention any updates from the initial roll out. Also it's very reasonable to ask/receive an extended warranty or lifetime powertrain warranty for a long as you own the vehicle. Lastly you get to give your vette a break since you've already got 5300 miles on it!?! Oh yeah, don't let the dealer shove you into something cheap to drive for a rental, make it cost them something as well, so they'll get it finished quicker. As long as your Svc. tech. isn't a pri€k, get to know him, buy him lunch & he'll help you out as well. Not too bad of a deal on a model that will be current for a long time.
Wormwood
You'll constantly be carrying a file folder with every pertinent document in it, so that whenever GM calls, (which will be either to or from work) you'll pull over onto the shoulder of the road in something like a Prius that the dealer rented from Enterprise for you drive & argue with someone at GM that you've never met. After the sixth or seventh time doing this might reconsider & just take the new engine...
I went through that with Ford, remember the 2008 Powerstrokes that we're shooting flames out the exhaust?
On the other hand, getting a replacement, you'll end up with a selected engine that'll have additional testing & QC checks. Not to mention any updates from the initial roll out. Also it's very reasonable to ask/receive an extended warranty or lifetime powertrain warranty for a long as you own the vehicle. Lastly you get to give your vette a break since you've already got 5300 miles on it!?! Oh yeah, don't let the dealer shove you into something cheap to drive for a rental, make it cost them something as well, so they'll get it finished quicker. As long as your Svc. tech. isn't a pri€k, get to know him, buy him lunch & he'll help you out as well. Not too bad of a deal on a model that will be current for a long time.
Wormwood
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 250
Likes: 7
I'm going to assume that you believe that the cam has something to do with the torque tube. It does not.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
however, I will find that thread on this forum, and link.
It was clear, because of a misalignment of the tube- which has the drive shaft- the crankshaft from the engine was displaced ever so slightly which caused the engine to be replaced.
CF Senior Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,262
Likes: 21
From: Palm City Florida
I would not buy this car after reading the history report.
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,884
Likes: 210
From: Somewhere on earth
Wouldn't want a new collectible car with a replaced engine.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 250
Likes: 7
I'm going to assume that you believe that the cam has something to do with the torque tube. It does not.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-g...problem-3.html
"Well, the speculation can stop. I just heard from dealer - worst news possible - they need to replace the engine. I am devastated.
Apparently they have been talking with GM and it has something to do with when the fuel sending unit was replaced. Because the driveline had to be removed to do that, upon reassembly the torque rod (or torque stick) needs to be aligned and/or torqued perfectly, otherwise it causes a problem with the thrush washer which apparently can then disintegrate and cause the crankshaft to have too much movement or something along those lines. At the end of the day all I know is that they need to replace my engine. I truly cannot believe this.
(I also spoke with the owner of a C7 in Colorado who also had his fuel sending unit replaced and then his car died - - he as been told the same thing - a new engine is required. This is unbelievable to me)."
Racer
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 250
Likes: 7
I'm going to assume that you believe that the cam has something to do with the torque tube. It does not.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,299
Likes: 466
From: Long Island New York
For the OP, it may not matter too much, especially if he plans to make it a daily driver for 15-20,000 mi/yr; but for they guy who buys one and puts 1-3,000 miles a year on it and keeps it for 10-20 years, the difference in value will be considerable.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,586
Likes: 215
From: WA
I'm going to assume that you believe that the cam has something to do with the torque tube. It does not.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.
The cam is not at all attached to the torque tube. The torque tube houses the drive shaft which is attached to the clutch/flywheel (or torque converter/flexplate) which is attached to the CRANK SHAFT. Not the cam. The cam is connected by a chain to the crank shaft.
That means that there is absolutely NO way that a super tight tolerance is possible between the torque tube and the cam. The chain alone would diminish any tight tolerances setup in the first place.
So in the light of the lack of reasoning as to why a torque tube reattachment would somehow affect the cam, I'd like to see this link and read through this thread to see if it was actually determined that the cam was actually affected by the torque tube or if there were multiple possible issues and only a coincidence that there was a cam issue.
You have to remember, if the tolerances are SO tight between the engine and torque tube that it could screw up the cam, then GM engineering has failed big time. It would mean that just changing the clutch would mean the cam could be moved out of place. Or a minor fender bender could move the cam out of place. Or a transmission change could move the cam out of place. Or changing the drive shaft could move the cam out of place. NONE of this sounds even remotely plausible.
I call shenanigans.