UAW Strike
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2013
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From: Ft Lauderdale
Tech Contributor
Melting Slicks
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,406
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From: Austin Texas
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Trust me...unless he assaulted someone..or stole repeatedly from GM...he will be back...only a temp dismissal...having been employed with GM...BOTH HOURLY and SALARIED (14yrs) FOR OVER 32 YEARS...he will be back if he doesnt choose retirement with 40 years seniority. UAW may give up something in it's negotiating at the plant level table ...but he will be back! It's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to be fired from GM!
Jukebox Graduate
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 857
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From: Saint Louis MO
From the linked article,
On his Facebook page on Monday, Renaud, who could not be reached for comment today, posted: “I hope GM’s CEO Mary Barra has the fortitude to clean up GM’s weak management team. We can only build the cars GM engineers give us to build. Management needs the workers now more than ever to help catch problems before they become billion dollar recalls.”
That pretty tame. Hard to imagine this would violate the CBA to justify a termination. I've head many a union rep say much worse about management at press conferences over the years. I'm guessing he had a major blow-up with management that resulted in allegations of "insubordination". As others have mentioned, the CBA governs discipline, and I'd expect there will be a hearing and appeals,... There's literally a hundred years of authority on union shop discipline with attorneys spending their entire careers doing only that.
Safety Car
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Sedalia Missouri
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 11,825
Likes: 2,474
From: Ft Lauderdale
Tech Contributor
Thanks.
From the linked article,
I'm guessing he had a major blow-up with management that resulted in allegations of "insubordination". As others have mentioned, the CBA governs discipline, and I'd expect there will be a hearing and appeals,... There's literally a hundred years of authority on union shop discipline with attorneys spending their entire careers doing only that.
From the linked article,
On his Facebook page on Monday, Renaud, who could not be reached for comment today, posted: “I hope GM’s CEO Mary Barra has the fortitude to clean up GM’s weak management team. We can only build the cars GM engineers give us to build. Management needs the workers now more than ever to help catch problems before they become billion dollar recalls.”
That pretty tame. Hard to imagine this would violate the CBA to justify a termination. I've head many a union rep say much worse about management at press conferences over the years. I'm guessing he had a major blow-up with management that resulted in allegations of "insubordination". As others have mentioned, the CBA governs discipline, and I'd expect there will be a hearing and appeals,... There's literally a hundred years of authority on union shop discipline with attorneys spending their entire careers doing only that.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 122
Likes: 22
As union member for 38 years for a green tractor co. a new tranny had a defect and I would build it got 30 days off for some young punks with a piece of paper that says he he is a Eng. Well 10 days later i got called back and made enough to on Ot. to trade for a 2014
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 894
Likes: 5
To answer the OP, no there will not be a strike over this.
To respond to some statements about the "impossibility" of firing a union employee, the difference between a union and a non-union employee is management can discipline a union covered employee for "just cause" which to means there must be a reason for the discipline. A non-union employee may be disciplined per management whim as long as the discipline does not violate various state and federal labor laws.
Union covered employees have been and will be disciplined and fired and these action are often upheld by the arbiter. There is no "get out of jail" card for any employee whether union or non-union.
Laborsmith
To respond to some statements about the "impossibility" of firing a union employee, the difference between a union and a non-union employee is management can discipline a union covered employee for "just cause" which to means there must be a reason for the discipline. A non-union employee may be disciplined per management whim as long as the discipline does not violate various state and federal labor laws.
Union covered employees have been and will be disciplined and fired and these action are often upheld by the arbiter. There is no "get out of jail" card for any employee whether union or non-union.
Laborsmith
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 216
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From: Fullerton Ca
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Instructor
Joined: May 2014
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From: Toronto Ontario
Trust me...unless he assaulted someone..or stole repeatedly from GM...he will be back...only a temp dismissal...having been employed with GM...BOTH HOURLY and SALARIED (14yrs) FOR OVER 32 YEARS...he will be back if he doesnt choose retirement with 40 years seniority. UAW may give up something in it's negotiating at the plant level table ...but he will be back! It's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to be fired from GM!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 894
Likes: 5
Laborsmith
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 136
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From: Toronto Ontario
Do you think the decline in union membership numbers has anything to do with companies being forced to shut down operations and send manufacturing jobs out of the country because they can no longer be competitive using North American labour?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 894
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No, I do not. Profit had everything to do with it. Shops were closed, true, but only marginally or reasons to do with the cost of North American labor.
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Instructor
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
From: Toronto Ontario
No, I do not. Profit had everything to do with it. Shops were closed, true, but only marginally or reasons to do with the cost of North American labor.
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Bottom line, from where I see it, unions served a very valuable purpose when labour law and government regulated H&S standards did not exist. I studied labour history and labour law in university. They now have become redundant and simply add costs to industry.
Now I know I'm not going to change your mind, and I won't try, but what I am saying is I DO have a great deal of experience dealing with unions in negotiations of contracts and even creating new contracts, as well as dealing with disciplinary issues and grievances. I do understand how unions work and the costs associated. It is not as simple as "unions are good for everyone." They definitely CAN and in many cases do hurt industry.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 5,394
Likes: 281
From: cumming ga
My 2 cents saw employees fire themselves because of contracts that they worked under. You can't keep not showing up for work or be on sick leave, and running a road race. Will not go into detail about my experience in this area. I see both sides and agree with both sides of this discussion in certain areas, those without personal experience should refrain from comment, if they are basing what they know on hearsay or newspaper reporting.
z51vett
Doug
z51vett
Doug
Last edited by z51vett; Jul 13, 2014 at 11:07 AM.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2014
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From: Georgetown Texas
Intermediate
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 32
Likes: 2
No, I do not. Profit had everything to do with it. Shops were closed, true, but only marginally or reasons to do with the cost of North American labor.
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Two points: here in Michigan WalMart has one major competitor: Meijers. The employyes of one of those two are unionized and the other company's employees are not. Both by all appearances are successful with the family owners of the former among the richest in the nation and of the latter the richest in Michigan.
The second point: tool&dye and machinest work is returning stateside. Training programs for this work are being started here in Michigan and likely in other states. Productivity has a lot more to do with this reversal than the hourly wage rate.
But if one can not tell from my forum name, I am an advocate for employee rights and as a consequence I am pro labor organization.
Laborsmith
Amen, Brother...
Team Owner
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 54,204
Likes: 180
From: S.W. Ohio. . . . . . NRA Life Member
you'll get the deer-in-headlights look in return.
If you're a good worker, you don't need a union. If you find yourself working for a bad company... you can take your skills and work-ethic to another company - who would gladly hire you.
I was raised in a pro-union family; finally got myself out of the cult... and now see things as they really are.