Drove 8 speed auto
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,223
Likes: 441
From: Pennsylvania
Good point. However with technology all of them shift quickly within thousandths of a second. So the point is moot. I have been driving a dual clutch transmission since 2007. I like it but there are honest alternatives with new Tech including the new Corvette.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 448
From: CHOCOWINITY NC
Honestly, the A6 and A8 (though I haven't driven one) are just fine. My other reference is the VW DSG (on 2 cars now). My A6 is crisp, responsive, and does what i want to do when I want it. I have a small diablo tune on it which alters shift pressures a bit and I have to say, it's as reponsive as any torque converter auto I've driven. No regrets...It's an excellent transmission. Driven aggressively in Manual mode it is fast and precise.
Honestly, I've driven This car in the mountains and it is just perfect...Paddleing between 2-3 it's very responsive and on point..
Honestly, I've driven This car in the mountains and it is just perfect...Paddleing between 2-3 it's very responsive and on point..
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,223
Likes: 441
From: Pennsylvania
An example..not everything. I have better things to do then research things that are available to anyone. Why don't you find me examples of an A8 not having new technology?
In fact, a new, Gen II transmission controller analyzes and executes commands 160 times per second, and wide-open throttle upshifts are executed up to eight-hundredths of a second quicker than those of the dual-clutch transmission offered in the Porsche 911.
Shift time quickness and improved responsiveness are accomplished with the new Gen II controls system. VFS solenoid technology and three internal speed sensors give the 8L90 the capability for world-class shift performance. The new transmission controller is mounted external to the transmission and has a processor that executes hundreds of calculations and commands every 6.25 milliseconds.
In fact, a new, Gen II transmission controller analyzes and executes commands 160 times per second, and wide-open throttle upshifts are executed up to eight-hundredths of a second quicker than those of the dual-clutch transmission offered in the Porsche 911.
Shift time quickness and improved responsiveness are accomplished with the new Gen II controls system. VFS solenoid technology and three internal speed sensors give the 8L90 the capability for world-class shift performance. The new transmission controller is mounted external to the transmission and has a processor that executes hundreds of calculations and commands every 6.25 milliseconds.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,959
Likes: 2,641
From: Texas Hill Country
An example..not everything. I have better things to do then research things that are available to anyone. Why don't you find me examples of an A8 not having new technology?
In fact, a new, Gen II transmission controller analyzes and executes commands 160 times per second, and wide-open throttle upshifts are executed up to eight-hundredths of a second quicker than those of the dual-clutch transmission offered in the Porsche 911.
Shift time quickness and improved responsiveness are accomplished with the new Gen II controls system. VFS solenoid technology and three internal speed sensors give the 8L90 the capability for world-class shift performance. The new transmission controller is mounted external to the transmission and has a processor that executes hundreds of calculations and commands every 6.25 milliseconds.
In fact, a new, Gen II transmission controller analyzes and executes commands 160 times per second, and wide-open throttle upshifts are executed up to eight-hundredths of a second quicker than those of the dual-clutch transmission offered in the Porsche 911.
Shift time quickness and improved responsiveness are accomplished with the new Gen II controls system. VFS solenoid technology and three internal speed sensors give the 8L90 the capability for world-class shift performance. The new transmission controller is mounted external to the transmission and has a processor that executes hundreds of calculations and commands every 6.25 milliseconds.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,055
Likes: 338
OP, thanks for stirring the pot! I look forward to test driving both transmissions so I will be able to immediately identify all BS'rs on this forum.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,229
Likes: 2,152
From: Cary NC
The mechanical internals on the 8L90 are significantly upgraded - lots of new technology inside. A DCT has 2 clutches, and gets a fast shift by engaging one clutch as the other is released. The 8L90 has 5 clutches, and gets a very fast shift by doing the exact same thing - engaging one clutch and releasing another .....except that in the 8L90, the next gear is inherently pre-selected with no moving parts outside of the clutches, unlike a DCT which must move synchros to do a pre-selection. The 8L90 can also skip gears on the downshift. There are a ton of other internal mechanical changes to the 8L90 as well. Think of the 8L90 as a DCT-like-operation with a 5-clutch planetary instead of a 2-clutch input shaft, with a smoothing torque converter bolted on the front. The converter helps launch, helps AFM, and helps smooth around town shifts when not in track mode. There are lots of advantages to this, with the disadvantage of slightly higher parasitic loss. I doubt we're going to see a DCT in the Corvette any time soon.
Last edited by RedLS6; Oct 14, 2014 at 05:12 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,939
Likes: 448
From: CHOCOWINITY NC
as were the internals on the 2014 A6. This is not a DCT and never will be. To compare the 2 is silly..
No reviews I've seen have given the A8 any big kudos over the (2014) A6,,,
It's a torque converter transmission...get over it!
No reviews I've seen have given the A8 any big kudos over the (2014) A6,,,
It's a torque converter transmission...get over it!
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,229
Likes: 2,152
From: Cary NC
It's a torque converter transmission - get used to it.
btw, there are some very good reviews right here on the forum, starting to appear. I'm waiting to drive one first, to form my own opinion.
Last edited by RedLS6; Oct 14, 2014 at 05:32 PM.
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Pennsylvania
Racer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 288
Likes: 4
After spending a bit of time in the A8, at WOT it definitely seems better than the A6, but driving around town it can do some strange things occasionally like shifting to one gear only to decide it wants the next lower gear, then half a second later deciding it wants to be in the gear it was originally in. I'm looking forward to when HP Tuners has access to the TCM(s) and we can start tweaking them...
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,959
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From: Texas Hill Country
<--This thread....I can't wait for the next "I drove an auto" thread.
Race Director
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 16,854
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personal attacks are not tolerated here. you are the one that said technology makes it better so I asked what you meant by that. I'm just trying to understand. i thought you would be an authority on the topic but I guess I was wrong again, my mom is going to be so disappointed.
<--This thread....I can't wait for the next "I drove an auto" thread.
<--This thread....I can't wait for the next "I drove an auto" thread.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,582
Likes: 496
From: Hudson, NH
A8
After spending a bit of time in the A8, at WOT it definitely seems better than the A6, but driving around town it can do some strange things occasionally like shifting to one gear only to decide it wants the next lower gear, then half a second later deciding it wants to be in the gear it was originally in. I'm looking forward to when HP Tuners has access to the TCM(s) and we can start tweaking them...
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 4,939
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From: CHOCOWINITY NC
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,229
Likes: 2,152
From: Cary NC
They might feel similar around town when you're not in track mode, but they're totally different trannys.
Last edited by RedLS6; Oct 14, 2014 at 09:30 PM.
Heel & Toe
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Orange County Republic of California
The mechanical internals on the 8L90 are significantly upgraded - lots of new technology inside. A DCT has 2 clutches, and gets a fast shift by engaging one clutch as the other is released. The 8L90 has 5 clutches, and gets a very fast shift by doing the exact same thing - engaging one clutch and releasing another .....except that in the 8L90, the next gear is inherently pre-selected with no moving parts outside of the clutches, unlike a DCT which must move synchros to do a pre-selection. The 8L90 can also skip gears on the downshift. There are a ton of other internal mechanical changes to the 8L90 as well. Think of the 8L90 as a DCT-like-operation with a 5-clutch planetary instead of a 2-clutch input shaft, with a smoothing torque converter bolted on the front. The converter helps launch, helps AFM, and helps smooth around town shifts when not in track mode. There are lots of advantages to this, with the disadvantage of slightly higher parasitic loss. I doubt we're going to see a DCT in the Corvette any time soon.
Probably the best description and summary yet. Great work!
There are good slushboxes and crappy DCTs, and vice versa. Too many people have a thing for one transmission technology or another. Like just about every technology, they get "better" over time whether or not we agree on what better means. Mileage and performance are UP, sometimes at the price of refinement or reliability. We've seen a lot of interesting transmission technologies used in the last ten years, including automated manual, CVT and DCT. Heck, Acura is now selling a DCT with a torque converter, see SAE article 13432. Cool!
Early indications by people who have *driven* the 8L90 are mostly positive, but it will never make a DCT lover happy. My 2015 is en route with the 8-speed, and I'm pretty sure I'll be perfectly happy with it. I also have a Ford DCT, and well, OK, bad example. PDK is nice, but it is a $3,200 option on a Cayman S. Pick yer favorite and enjoy.
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: Hillsdale NJ
CORVETTE TODAY Show Host
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From: Kansas City, Missouri
CORVETTE TODAY Host
St. Jude Donor'15
The mechanical internals on the 8L90 are significantly upgraded - lots of new technology inside. A DCT has 2 clutches, and gets a fast shift by engaging one clutch as the other is released. The 8L90 has 5 clutches, and gets a very fast shift by doing the exact same thing - engaging one clutch and releasing another .....except that in the 8L90, the next gear is inherently pre-selected with no moving parts outside of the clutches, unlike a DCT which must move synchros to do a pre-selection. The 8L90 can also skip gears on the downshift. There are a ton of other internal mechanical changes to the 8L90 as well. Think of the 8L90 as a DCT-like-operation with a 5-clutch planetary instead of a 2-clutch input shaft, with a smoothing torque converter bolted on the front. The converter helps launch, helps AFM, and helps smooth around town shifts when not in track mode. There are lots of advantages to this, with the disadvantage of slightly higher parasitic loss. I doubt we're going to see a DCT in the Corvette any time soon.
Probably the best description and summary yet. Great work!
There are good slushboxes and crappy DCTs, and vice versa. Too many people have a thing for one transmission technology or another. Like just about every technology, they get "better" over time whether or not we agree on what better means. Mileage and performance are UP, sometimes at the price of refinement or reliability. We've seen a lot of interesting transmission technologies used in the last ten years, including automated manual, CVT and DCT. Heck, Acura is now selling a DCT with a torque converter, see SAE article 13432. Cool!
Early indications by people who have *driven* the 8L90 are mostly positive, but it will never make a DCT lover happy. My 2015 is en route with the 8-speed, and I'm pretty sure I'll be perfectly happy with it. I also have a Ford DCT, and well, OK, bad example. PDK is nice, but it is a $3,200 option on a Cayman S. Pick yer favorite and enjoy.
Thanks to both of you for this (especially Red for that excellent overview).
Guys, I'm warning you now....if anyone goes off-topic or tries to pick fights in this thread, you won't like the results.
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 91
Likes: 2
From: NY NY
Been going back and forth deciding-
So based on the very helpful comparisons posted, I get this impression:
Driver involvement and fun factor leans toward the M7,
shift speed and consistency for maximum performance to A8,
no perceptible difference in terms of handling, weight and steering feel,
extra cost for the optional A8 over the standard M7,
MPG not yet rated for A8, but expect to be nearly the same as the M7,
I'm considering this purely for fun and not commuter duty, but with the drive reports, I'm not as closed off to automatic as I originally was. No doubt there will be times encountering stop and go that the automatic will be welcomed, but my druthers for either is even enough that simply the extra cost may give sway to the M7. Maybe do my bit to change the 70% auto/30% manual purchase ratio so they won't halt production on them.
Probably change my mind again tomorrow though.
So based on the very helpful comparisons posted, I get this impression:
Driver involvement and fun factor leans toward the M7,
shift speed and consistency for maximum performance to A8,
no perceptible difference in terms of handling, weight and steering feel,
extra cost for the optional A8 over the standard M7,
MPG not yet rated for A8, but expect to be nearly the same as the M7,
I'm considering this purely for fun and not commuter duty, but with the drive reports, I'm not as closed off to automatic as I originally was. No doubt there will be times encountering stop and go that the automatic will be welcomed, but my druthers for either is even enough that simply the extra cost may give sway to the M7. Maybe do my bit to change the 70% auto/30% manual purchase ratio so they won't halt production on them.
Probably change my mind again tomorrow though.