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Not sure I get how the butterfly blade opening at a greater percentage in the throttle body creates false knock...
This is not me saying this - call Andy and A&A and ask him. We also had an issue with a sensor harness but that did not create the knock issue. Once the Vitesse was disconnected, Andy was able to finish the tune. I will be hooking it back up to try it again now that the tune is set.
So many nay sayers, has anyone just simply lined up two cars, one with and one without???
I've had these on my past cars and have it on my C7 now and always will add one to any car I purchase. It just never ceases to amaze me when I read threads like this.
So many nay sayers, has anyone just simply lined up two cars, one with and one without???
I've had these on my past cars and have it on my C7 now and always will add one to any car I purchase. It just never ceases to amaze me when I read threads like this.
I have never posted on here before, but want to say the Vitesse Throttle was the best bang for the buck - I was 100% satisfied and actually amazed at the difference. Turn it up and throttle response feels instant and makes the factory sport setting seem like it is winter mode in comparison. You do need to unplug it when having the car tuned, and then just plug it back in after. Truly an amazing gadget. I was more impressed with this little add on then I was with the supercharger. Hard for me to imagine anyone that installed it would want to remove it even with any other mods. I have bought almost every mod I could for the car, but still find the Vitesse Throttle control the best bang for the buck. Turn it up to 7- 9 and hit that gas pedal and it definitely will put a smile on your face. Great product, fantastic price.
I have never posted on here before, but want to say the Vitesse Throttle was the best bang for the buck - I was 100% satisfied and actually amazed at the difference.
Welcome to posting! This is a typical Thread ~29,000 "silent majority" looked at this thread and only ~150 of us "normal vocal minority" posted! (Shows ~225 but many have multiple posts.) I'm sure many of the 29,000 have useful input!
So many nay sayers, has anyone just simply lined up two cars, one with and one without???
I've had these on my past cars and have it on my C7 now and always will add one to any car I purchase. It just never ceases to amaze me when I read threads like this.
Unless you are racing at part throttle ONLY, you will see no difference in 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. 100% throttle is still 100%, even with the Vitesse installed.
^^^ For a 0-60 start would think a slower depression of the throttle would be needed to reduce wheel spin!
Now I'm remained of my friend with a 406 Ford in a "B" post sedan that had a 3 speed trans with overdrive. Folks wanted to race and he had a standard answer as most racing "In The Day" with skinny tires was always kick-down at an agreed to speed. His was "sure kick-down at 120!" Very few takers!
Now to answer the original question how could youu find two identical cars and two drivers with identical reaction etc etc! I don't think my Vitesse Throttle Controller does anything for my Grand Sport other than match what I was used to in my none MRC Z51 that was set at the max throttle response!
Unless you are racing at part throttle ONLY, you will see no difference in 0-60 or 1/4 mile times. 100% throttle is still 100%, even with the Vitesse installed.
But your RT may be better because you're getting to 100% WOT throttle quicker on launch....
I'll disagree....
Stock, you'll get WOT @ 90-100% pedal press...
Vitesse on SP9 you get WOT 100% at about 40% pedal press..
Ok, let's walk this through.
Ignoring for the moment that:
* the actual rate at which the throttle plate opens is controlled by the ECM, beyond the reach of the Vitesse unit (just ask them). The gas pedal, whether equipped with Vitesse or not, just sends that request to the ECM, and the ECM decides how far to open the throttle plate and how fast it opens.
* From many reports here on the Forum, setting the Vitesse at the highest level (SP9) is pretty much undrivable and causes issues.
BUT, for the sake of argument, let's go with the statement that you have WOT at 40% throttle pedal at the max Vitesse setting.
Let's also be generous and say that it takes 1/10th of a second to fully depress the gas pedal. Sounds kinda slow to me, but we'll be generous here. (remember, we're talking about actual gas pedal movement, not reaction time. Reaction of the driver is the same regardless of Vitesse on no Vitesse)
So, 1/10th or 0.1 seconds to depress the OEM gas pedal fully. Meaning that a highest-setting SP9 Vitesse can open it in 40% of the OEM time, or 0.04 seconds.
So, absolute best-case, most optimistic scenario, the Vitesse might shave 0.06 seconds off your 0-60 or quarter mile time. Example: Your quarter mile *may* drop from 11.69 to 11.63 -- or your 0-60 might drop, at MOST, from 3.99 to 3.94 seconds. These are absolute best-case. If you use your Vitesse at anything LESS than the highest, max setting (lets say somewhere in the middle where most people set it), or if your throttle foot isn't molasses-slow, your *theoretical* best case time savings likely drops in half..,. saving you a whopping .03 seconds. I'd say that's far less than the margin of error in most non-professional circumstances, or, as I said before, "for all practical purposes, zero".
Vitesse changes the *feel* of the throttle -- no question. And for many, that's the primary goal, and I've no problem with that. But to say it increases the hard-numbers performance in any meaningful sense, seems unsupported by the math.
I leave mine at SP9. It feels great. Not sure I would let somebody else drive it at SP9, but I like it for me.
Funny my youngest granddaughter inherited a4 wheel drive "hemi" from her sister. She asking me about all the power it had and I described what a hemi was not really asking questions.
When we visited, I brought her car to the dealer to have something repaired. Could not believe how sensitive the throttle was! There was definitely something wrong with the throttle by wire control, way too sensitive. I mentioned it when I got it home and she said she was wondering why her car had "much more power" than her sisters or Mom and Dad when she drove those! Yep it "feels" more powerful because of the throttle sensitive.
I keep my Grand Sport at 4 or 5 which Vitesse says in linear as apposed to the slow, nonlinear settings in Touring and even Sport. Need to be in Track mode for max sensitivity and with MRC too stiff a ride.
BUT, for the sake of argument, let's go with the statement that you have WOT at 40% throttle pedal at the max Vitesse setting.
Let's also be generous and say that it takes 1/10th of a second to fully depress the gas pedal. Sounds kinda slow to me, but we'll be generous here. (remember, we're talking about actual gas pedal movement, not reaction time. Reaction of the driver is the same regardless of Vitesse on no Vitesse)
So WITH the Vitesse, that driver would get to WOT faster/quicker
So, 1/10th or 0.1 seconds to depress the OEM gas pedal fully. Meaning that a highest-setting SP9 Vitesse can open it in 40% of the OEM time, or 0.04 seconds.
.04 is HUGE!
So, absolute best-case, most optimistic scenario, the Vitesse might shave 0.06 seconds off your 0-60 or quarter mile time. If you use your Vitesse at anything LESS than the highest, max setting (lets say somewhere in the middle where most people set it), or if your throttle foot isn't molasses-slow, your *theoretical* best case time savings likely drops in half..,. saving you a whopping .03 seconds.
.03-.06 in bracket racing ET is HUGE!
.03 off the line as an RT advantage is HUGE!
In Bracket racing, its not how "fast" you are, its how "quick" you can get to the stripe.... Check my signature I "kinda" know what I'm talking about....
It seems to me you experts are arguing a scenario that doesn't exist - like having the car propped right at the start line beam with zero rollout. Then the rate of accelerator application would actually matter.
Since that's not realistic, remember that the car starts acclerating WELL BEFORE the start line, and has been at 100% throttle for a "long time" before the car breaks the start beam.
How rapidly the accelerator was commanded open way back when the rollout started is pretty much immaterial. It's 100% when the beam is released either way, and where you start your rollout is your business.
^^
There is also the transient rate of airflow through the throttle body! It is not an instantaneous vertical line increase if plotted! A low pressure wave must hit the opening for the higher pressure upstream to even know it’s lower!
I recall an interesting example. In a high pressure natural gas pipeline, if a break occurs for whatever reason the pressure can only release when that pressure wave goes to the break. Like seeing lightening before hearing thunder that speed is the speed of sound in natural gas. Unfortunately for most of the steel used for the manufacture of gas transmission pipe, the crack propagation speed is faster than the speed of sound so some cracks caused many mile long failures! An example was the failure in Canada with the grizzle valley pipeline.
Line them up is the only way to prove it. I have a hard time believing that quicker acceleration means nothing and trust me, it feels a lot quicker with it. With that being said, to each his own, I love mine and it's hear to stay and my *** dyno says it's a great mod.
Hmm, since no one apparently understands my point-found a good ASME 11 page Technical Paper with a graph that validates what I am saying-i.e. the difference in rate of throttle blade openings between OEM and a max Vitesse setting of 9 is not what is controlling the initial transient air flow. The initial transient air flow rate is likely slower than the rate of opening with either setting!
That is because the air flow through the throttle body IS NOT instantaneous with butterfly valve opening. It takes a finite time for the high pressure (in this case atmospheric) on the inlet side of the throttle body "to know" there is a vacuum on the other! The pressure wave communicating that fact can only travel at the speed of sound. (Recall a prof in a fluid flow class using that not exactly scientific analogy to explain "choked flow." Amassing what sticks in your head some 50 years later! Those interested can google choked flow.)
Below is a graph from the paper. Those who like math can look through the extensive math model developed to predict it as it's close to the transient flow measured. I just copied a few of the equations! (You can google the papers title, shown top of pic, and can read it in detail.)
Note measuring transient air flow is not easy as with any measurement, the device used can affect the result! However it is much more accurate than the inherent variables of two "identical" cars, two "identical" drivers using the proposed side-by-side launch method employing an NHRA Christmas Tree and comparing 60 foot time slips! Even Eric Enders Stevens in her ProStock NHRA car varies in reaction time more than the difference folks are trying to measure
09-04-2017, 12:35 PM
For a 0-60 start would think a slower depression of the throttle would be needed to reduce wheel spin!
