Quicksilver, I fully understand that you and the others who are posting in favor of Tesla care only about two things: the fact that it’s a high performance car which is fun to drive, and the amount per mile that comes out of your own pocketbook for the energy required to drive it. If those are the only two factors being considered, then I fully agree that you have indeed made a very good choice, and the points I have made are irrelevant. But it would be nice if you’d extend me the same courtesy, namely, acknowledging that I have some valid points rather than simply pooh-poohing all of them.

The problem in my view is that I and my fellow non-electric taxpayers have subsidized Tesla to the tune of at least $30,000 per Tesla, and we have gotten nothing in return for that. Those who arranged the subsidies claimed that we were going to get reduced pollution, but the whole point of my posts is that that’s simply not true. We have in fact gotten nothing because when you consider the whole envelope including production of the fuel, emissions are similar. You say I should take that argument to the senate, and I have indeed written my senators, congressman, and the EPA, and more are joining me in making those complaints all the time. If you doubt that, simply Google “Tesla subsidies” and you will see any number of highly critical articles. So far, we have not prevailed, but we will keep at it.

As far as the greenies that you so gleefully trash, the huge irony is that their misunderstanding of reality is what started the chain of events that causes your energy cost to be low, in essence by allowing your car to burn coal (at the power station) rather than gasoline (in your tank). That has nothing to do with subsidies, the subsidies are in addition to that. Basically, Teslas run on coal. Sure, a small amount of electricity is generated efficiently, but those plants are all run fully loaded, so the extra power to allow electric cars to be added to electricity demand comes from the less efficient coal fired power plants that would otherwise be slowing down.

Anyway, at this point, we are probably going to have to agree to disagree. While I have agreed to your main two points, I think there is more to it than that. Whether you will agree that maybe my points have a bit of validity, or will continue to insist that any facts beyond your two points (fun to drive and cheap in energy cost to your own personal wallet) should be ridiculed.

 

After reading your post, you need to buy the Tesla and get that out of your system. Mostly likely a year or so down the road you will trade the Tesla on a new perhaps mid engine Vette.

 

My intent is not to ridicule your points, or even to speak to their validity. I have no doubt that some of your points are quite valid. I appreciate the dialogue, and appreciate and respect your conversation, and points, though some of them do not apply to me.

However that said, valid as they may or may not be, they are simply not a priority to myself, an automobile enthusiast who is "fuel agnostic" and generally apathetic when it comes to keeping track of which U.S. auto manufacturers get government money.

I don't care what they run on. I don't care who or which auto company is getting subsidies, I don't care who is making which argument as to gas vs coal vs whatever energy source in terms of which is more efficient to produce.

When it comes down to all of the arguments and number crunching, I don't care what it costs fuel and energy producers to "produce" the fuel that my car runs on, or even power my house.

I only care about how much the "end product", i.e. the fuel for my vehicle, is going to cost "me". If that is a price that is a bargain for me, well then I'm going to take it. I don't care who got what subsidy.

When I bought, I cared about the same things that I cared about when I bought my other vehicles. Looks, cost, performance, technology, warranty, etc., and also how much my out of pocket fuel costs would be.

Your arguments are probably geared for, and likely more effective on, someone who would advance the green agenda.

That's not me. I'm just an auto enthusiast who likes any number of cars from any number of auto manufacturers, and the politics of which auto company got how much government money, and why, is not that great of a concern for me.

If you feel that you and others have been taken for a ride, no pun intended, on the whole green agenda, well then seriously, this is a matter which you should take to your political representatives, and one which you and others who feel the same way, should address through the political process, i.e. voting for or against those who do or do not take your same position on this matter.

You mention above that you and others have gone to this effort, and I applaud that.

However until your position prevails, myself and no doubt others, are going to utilize whatever benefits EVs offer at this time.

 

First time riding in a Tesla was pretty crazy. Instant torque while being completely silent is impressive. They are making some great strides in the self driving as well (I think turning on your turn signal to have it auto change lanes is a silly novelty, buy it's just more cool that it's a step towards complete automation).

With that said, they just don't do it for me and I wouldn't ever want to own one. The styling is just too blah, and the inconvenience of not being able to just hop in the car and go drive wherever and whenever I want without having to plan around charging stations is really a turn off.
Headers, supercharger and meth are new to my car and I'm excited to test performance against my friends Tesla.

 

Quicksilver, we’re getting pretty close to total recycle mode. I agree to disagree about what’s left. Peace.

Incidentally, I’m also an enthusiast, having had an XKE a long time ago, and since 1990, 3 Vettes and now a CTSV coupe. But I’d also say I’m a rational greenie, though many on the forum would say there is no such thing. I care about the environment, and am willing to spend money and to support EPA in order to improve things. But being an engineer, I want to be convinced that the money being spent to improve the environment actually does that. So basically I get yelled at from both sides. The hard core greenies don’t like me because I question the technical basis of many of their pet positions, and the conservatives don’t like me because I don’t automatically hate everything the EPA does. But Mr. Spock would like me. Live long and prosper.

 

This is exactly my feeling. If I can get the right deal on the vet it's going to be me cruising in a z51

 

 

Best of luck to you whatever vehicle you decide and whichever way it goes for you.

The Corvette is a magnificent car, I have owned multiple Vettes and my lifetime overall experience with Corvettes has been a very rewarding one.

The Tesla with Ludicrous was mentioned, and as an owner of an Insane version, soon to be updated to Ludicrous, I wanted to offer some points and accuracies to some of the statements in the thread with regard to them which had been stated prior to my first post in the thread.

Good luck.

 

you want complete automation? You don't like driving your vette? Or do you mean where you can flip it on and off when you do and don't want to drive?

 

That p90d is amazing! I've never felt power or torque like that.

 

You should ride in a Tesla P100D! It is now the quickest accelerating production vehicle in the world 0-60mph. 2.5 seconds.

Whether you like it or not, there's no denying that is QUICK!

There's no doubt the Vette is a sexy beast, but you really have to experience driving a Tesla to appreciate it. The acceleration and the Autodrive truly is second to none. You really get a feeling that you are driving the future. I went back and forth many sleepless nights deciding between a Tesla and my new Vette, ultimately I chose Vette. I'm now debating replacing one of my pickups with a Model X, but I just can't get past the range. Having to stop every 150-200 miles for a 20-30 minute charge is a tough pill to swallow, not to mention the restricted routes you have to take in order to use the super chargers.

I haven't quite convinced myself I need a $100,000+ car as my daily driver...

 

It sounds like you're financially capable(?); get both, buy the Tesla and get a clean, used and relatively inexpensive C6.........