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Not trying to fan any flames here, and I mean no disrespect to anyone this pertains to, but I have witnessed this in quite a few posts now:
Why are "supporting vendors" arguing with forum members over their purchase decisions or personal product endorsements?? It would be far far better to simply make your case for the product you sell in your own vendor threads by describing its merits and features without bashing your competitors' products. WTH? Not a good way to conduct business in my experience. Just a little suggestion for whatever it's worth.
Not trying to fan any flames here, and I mean no disrespect to anyone this pertains to, but I have witnessed this in quite a few posts now:
Why are "supporting vendors" arguing with forum members over their purchase decisions or personal product endorsements?? It would be far far better to simply make your case for the product you sell in your own vendor threads by describing its merits and features without bashing your competitors' products. WTH? Not a good way to conduct business in my experience. Just a little suggestion for whatever it's worth.
Agreed. If a vendor's product of choice is better, show me the data. I have asked multiple times for the data and have yet to get anything other than conjecture. I'm seriously wanting to see the data. If the unbiased data proves that the $300+ Carbotechs are better than the $120 PowerStops, it would convince me to spend the extra money and I would buy a set of the Carbotechs today. So far nobody has coughed up the data. I don't mind spending extra money on something if there is true value in doing so. By simply implying that my PowerStops are inferior because they were made in China with no supporting data, there's not much of a leg to stand on. Show me performance, reliability, durability, and safety comparisons that support it.
On edit: I'm not denying that the Carbotechs are good. I'm sure that they are a great pad, but are they nearly 3 times better than the PowerStops to warrant the pricing difference?
Agreed. If a vendor's product of choice is better, show me the data. I have asked multiple times for the data and have yet to get anything other than conjecture. I'm seriously wanting to see the data. If the unbiased data proves that the $300+ Carbotechs are better than the $120 PowerStops, it would convince me to spend the extra money and I would buy a set of the Carbotechs today. So far nobody has coughed up the data. I don't mind spending extra money on something if there is true value in doing so. By simply implying that my PowerStops are inferior because they were made in China with no supporting data, there's not much of a leg to stand on. Show me performance, reliability, durability, and safety comparisons that support it.
On edit: I'm not denying that the Carbotechs are good. I'm sure that they are a great pad, but are they nearly 3 times better than the PowerStops to warrant the pricing difference?
I agree, there is no reason a street pad should cost that much. If it was $200 I would maybe pay the extra for the US made pad. For that kind of money they should be track grade high heat pads. I have a ZO6 and the Carbotech 1521s are over $400 that's too much Corvette Tax for me.
I couldn't agree more about the vendor mentioned in the above posts. I totally understand why all the CF folks flocking to the PowerStop options is devastating to his sales model. That's the motivation for all his chirping across the multiple Carbotech vs. PowerStop threads. So far the arguments he's made are: PowerStops are "cheap China stuff" that can't be as good as American made stuff (with no data to substantiate despite demanding data for those liking the PowerStops), buy American just because, he impugns the very novel "tape test" by gve, and more ironic still was that he knocked the Z26 when "one of his customers" reported the Z26 faded a bit during track use compared to the Carbotech XP series... (the irony being the 1521 are NOT for track use either and would have issues too and his introduction of the XP series in the context of these discussions for the lowest dust street pad solution is just silly).
For the record... #1 I do make every effort to buy USA products whenever possible even at a modest premium. But $350 for Carbotechs (for a Z51) vs. $130 for the Z26 (with LESS DUST) just makes the decision easy. PowerStop is an American company...
Also for the record... I purchased my Carbotech 1521 two years ago from this vendor for my 2014 Z51 for about $350. I thought they were great compared to OEM...at the time.
I have firsthand experience (non-scientific...) between the 1521 and Z26 over a few thousand miles on each pad. There is absolutely NO question in my mind that the Z26 produce FAR LESS DUST than the 1521. PERIOD! The brake dust from the Z26 also washes off easier than the dust from the 1521 on my untreated wheels. I have no scientific data to quantify my observations, so I'm sure that makes them invalid.
The pics below show my black wheels after ~300 miles. Also my rotors after ~3500 miles with the Z26 (there does not appear to be any rotor eating going on...smooth to the touch and no ridges). There certainly is brake dust. From 4 feet away though it's not really noticeable because for whatever reason it doesn't dull the gloss very much. By comparison, my 1521 by this point would have a brown dusty coating and wanting to be washed. I have no desire to wash the wheels at this 300 mile mark with the Z26. In the close-up of the brake dust and finger swipe I did all I could to get the lighting and angle to show it. It's the shot from 4 feet that tells the best story though.
I posted this in the Z06 section on 6/22 but applicable here as well...
Installed the Z26-1405 Front and Z26-1718 Rear on a 2016Z with 550 miles. Was talking to Gary (gve) about mud flaps and he turned me on to this thread.
My biggest takeaway was how absurdly easy it was to change the pads. An 1/8" punch tool was the only thing needed that was not already in my toolbox. Even doing one wheel at a time this is easily done in under two hours.
Too early to tell about brake dust but any improvement over OEM will be monumental. Even at 550 miles the calipers had some heavy buildup.
One interesting feature is that the PowerStop pad material is beveled. Not sure why that is but it didn't stop me from putting them on.
No squealing before or after burnishing. Looking forward to another drive today.
Great work on this Gary, looking forward to your further updates.
You'll be amazed with the Powerstops. I know I am every time I come home from a day of driving expecting to find a thick film of brake dust on my wheels and there is little to none. I am so accustomed to having to wipe the black filth off my wheels and shove my hands inside the spokes to clean out the barrels after every drive that it's still a novelty to me to see how clean my wheels are with the Z26 pads. Soo much easier to keep my black car clean now too!
I put the Power stop Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Pads on my 2016 Z51 Vette and they are corrected the dust problem. But now my rotors look rusty. Does Z26 pads have this problem ?
I put the Power stop Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Pads on my 2016 Z51 Vette and they are corrected the dust problem. But now my rotors look rusty. Does Z26 pads have this problem ?
Did you clean the rotors of the previous pads' material before the Z23 install? I took some sandpaper and brake cleaner to mine before going from OEM pads to Z26's.
I put the Power stop Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Pads on my 2016 Z51 Vette and they are corrected the dust problem. But now my rotors look rusty. Does Z26 pads have this problem ?
I have very few miles on my new Z26 pads, but I do notice a bit of that golden color when the rotors are viewed at some angles and in certain light situations. By the way, Z23 and Z26 pads are specified as having the same pad material.
Take a look at the first 3 of 5 pictures posted by xp800 in post #107, above. The first two don't show the coloring, but the 3rd picture does seem to. I'd guess it's the resin from the new pads that we're seeing, and its probably normal.
Completed the swap on both my Mazda 6 last weekend and the Vette today. The Brembos are pretty easy to maintain. The hardest part was being able to get the pin hammered back in.
Will report back after I get some wear on the new pads.
Last edited by Bucknut2006; 07-06-2016 at 08:28 AM.
Spent all day Saturday driving the mountain roads in northern Georgia and North Carolina. The brakes worked just as well as stock and are dead quiet. The initial bite is just as good and they never gave up pedal feel. Overall, I see these as a pretty direct replacement for any street use and there isn't a need to spend 3x times the amount.
As far as dust, I really don't have any. Typically after a day of hard driving, there is a pretty good layer on everything, including the backside of the calipers. I hit a rain storm which makes the problem even worse. From the pic below, you can see that the calipers are nearly clean and the rims have a little bit of dirt from the road/rain.
I don't really see any dust from the Power stops.
They are fantastic. Wheels stay nice and clean.
The very little that does show it is just regular dust as well they are
the BEST!
Our neighbor who lives across the street has a 2010 Grand Sport and he was so impressed by the power stops that we put on our Z he now has power stops on his C6.
06-22-2016, 01:52 PM
