Euro spec differences from US
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
I lived in Germany for two years as a kid when my dad was stationed there in the 1970s. I have been back twice to visit during the 1980s. I remember how - even back then - German drivers were well disciplined, paid more attention and their etiquette was far superior to US motorists by far.
The only bad thing was that they drove way too fast in thick fog. Scary times. I know gasoline is a lot more costly there as well. City streets weren't friendly to big land yachts like our old Caprice wagon.........especially in Italy.
I bet many places over there are still the same as 40 years ago.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
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Nothing has changed except that death rates on US roads have exploded while death rates on German roads have collapsed - and all over Western Europe for that matter. Sadly, in the US we treat motorists like children and they act like children. Europe treats them like adults and the results are there for all to see - in 2019 Germany had 3,096 road deaths and in 2021 the US had 41,000 road deaths - the German population is 1/4th the US so on a like-for-like basis Germany would be at approximately 12,000 - the US is more than 3x dangerous. And they have large swaths of their motorway network with no speed limit. I finally managed to V-Max my 2019 CTS-V at 320 km/h in Germany driving down from Berlin to Italy last October and felt as relaxed and as comfortable as I possibly could - in the US I am nervous driving at speeds much above 120-130 kph because of other drivers and the poor road surfacing.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Not to mention the possibility of losing your driver's license, paying a massive fine or even going to jail (yes, jail) in some states if you are caught going above 90 mph!
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
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I know - in the US we go from one extreme to the other. We let people drive without seatbelts, drunk, drugged and without helmets; we let them drag race; we don't have traffic circles; we give snotty-nosed 15 & 16 year olds the keys to 400-600 hp killing machines; we don't teach drivers to brake properly and we don't ban texting behind the wheel but when they screw up we throw the book at them. How does that work out?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 267
Likes: 69
From: Norfolk VA --> Paris France
Yes Flo is correct. You can bring an EU-homologated car to the US for up to six months as a tourist but then the car has to be re-exported or it will be destroyed. In terms of costs, driving a Vette in Europe is more expensive because anything automotive in Europe is more expensive - gasoline/diesel is 3x the cost of the US, highway tolls are much more expensive but I would say that insurance is probably more reasonable. On the other hand you can drive at much higher safer speeds in Europe and European highway surfaces are excellent - France probably has the most amazingly well-engineered and maintained highway network in all of Europe but it is expensive. Driving from Paris down to Nice costs $55 in tolls - if you charged Americans $55 in tolls they would revolt but as the saying goes, 'you get what you pay for' And the drivers in France are much better and more disciplined but you all know that because we all know how distracted are drivers in the US.
Advanced
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 83
Likes: 44
From: Tyrol
Eu - us
It´s not all golden in Europe.
We are not the better drivers and on our streets are also crazy people and sunday-drivers on the way.
We have also strong fines, up to prison and confiscation (e.g. IT, CH), maybe at higher speed than in US.
But in my opinion the greatest problem in Europe is envy and ruthlessness.
Many drivers wont let you overtake, when you appear with a sportscar in their rear mirror (in Europe it´s forbidden to overtake on the right lane).
Gas price is about € 1,50/LITER!!! (95 ROZ)
In most countries you have to pay toll for freeways, tunnels and pass roads,
but they are in good conditions „you get what you pay for“!!! (e.g. search for „grossglockner hochalpenstraße“)
We have too much traffic on too less streets. In high season (July, August) you jam more than you drive.
But Europe is beautiful. If you have the possibility to come with your Corvette, choose bevor- or afterseason (April-June, September-November). You´re welcome!!!
Corvette prices are in EU higher than in US, but comprehensible, because of more included options.
I enclose a build sheet from a standard EU-GS.
Options with extra charge are red marked.
We are not the better drivers and on our streets are also crazy people and sunday-drivers on the way.
We have also strong fines, up to prison and confiscation (e.g. IT, CH), maybe at higher speed than in US.
But in my opinion the greatest problem in Europe is envy and ruthlessness.
Many drivers wont let you overtake, when you appear with a sportscar in their rear mirror (in Europe it´s forbidden to overtake on the right lane).
Gas price is about € 1,50/LITER!!! (95 ROZ)
In most countries you have to pay toll for freeways, tunnels and pass roads,
but they are in good conditions „you get what you pay for“!!! (e.g. search for „grossglockner hochalpenstraße“)
We have too much traffic on too less streets. In high season (July, August) you jam more than you drive.
But Europe is beautiful. If you have the possibility to come with your Corvette, choose bevor- or afterseason (April-June, September-November). You´re welcome!!!
Corvette prices are in EU higher than in US, but comprehensible, because of more included options.
I enclose a build sheet from a standard EU-GS.
Options with extra charge are red marked.
Last edited by silverback v8; Jan 19, 2022 at 03:21 AM.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 24
Hi silverback
All true what you say but the facts are the facts. Vehicular deaths are approximately 2-3x more in the US than in Western Europe (per mile driven/per 100,000 of population). Fines and confiscations are just as high in the US where driving 90+mph (145 km/h) in the State of Virginia is a 'vehicular felony' and in most US states driving above 160 km/h (100 mph) gets you arrested. Whenever I drove my C4, C5 or C6 Corvette in Europe drivers always got out of the way in the left lane. It was actually one of the greatest pleasures about driving in Europe. Highway traffic in France, Italy and Spain has become more congealed in the past 10-15 years because countries have installed many more speed cameras and average speed cameras and so many drivers start to rationalise it the way they do in the US which is that I will hog the left lane at 55 (88 km/h) 'cuz that's my right and that's the speed limit. So you do get a bit of that in Europe but obviously closer to 80-90 mph (130-145 km/h) - but they eventually move over and are courteous about it.
Yes roads in cities and towns are more congested and narrower but navigating all that and looking out for pedestrians, cyclists and bikers makes Europeans much more aware and engaged and therefore safer.
But thanks for the build sheet - I will look at it carefully.
All true what you say but the facts are the facts. Vehicular deaths are approximately 2-3x more in the US than in Western Europe (per mile driven/per 100,000 of population). Fines and confiscations are just as high in the US where driving 90+mph (145 km/h) in the State of Virginia is a 'vehicular felony' and in most US states driving above 160 km/h (100 mph) gets you arrested. Whenever I drove my C4, C5 or C6 Corvette in Europe drivers always got out of the way in the left lane. It was actually one of the greatest pleasures about driving in Europe. Highway traffic in France, Italy and Spain has become more congealed in the past 10-15 years because countries have installed many more speed cameras and average speed cameras and so many drivers start to rationalise it the way they do in the US which is that I will hog the left lane at 55 (88 km/h) 'cuz that's my right and that's the speed limit. So you do get a bit of that in Europe but obviously closer to 80-90 mph (130-145 km/h) - but they eventually move over and are courteous about it.
Yes roads in cities and towns are more congested and narrower but navigating all that and looking out for pedestrians, cyclists and bikers makes Europeans much more aware and engaged and therefore safer.
But thanks for the build sheet - I will look at it carefully.
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 24
Hi silverback
I've noticed the following differences between the US-spec and the EU-spec [comments from other readers are much appreciated].
I've noticed the following differences between the US-spec and the EU-spec [comments from other readers are much appreciated].
- 6X1/7X1 - Component FRT LH - I believe these are the explosives under the hood that will blow the hood clear of the windshield in the event a pedestrian hits the car - these regs are the reason why all manufacturers had to get rid of pop up headlights including Corvette of course
- BAG - Export Parts Package - Europe-delivered Corvettes and Cadillacs get a grab bag of goodies that US market cars do not
- CE4 - Washer Headlamp - EU cars get cool headlamp washers. Needed in Europe because at high speeds need to know where you are going
- NE4 - Emission System EEC 14 - Has to abide by European emissions standards which are now stricter than the US. 20 years ago it was the other way around
- T4F - Headlamps Xenon, LED Park and Turn Signals - European side mirrors are much larger and you can actually see out of them; they also have the turn signals in them and in the rear the turn signals are also amber (but in the US too for this generation - for the C8 they removed it - no rational reason)
- T93 - Special tail & Stop Lamp - Given the need for a rear fog lamp the lighting in the back has to be re-arranged
- T79 - Foglamps - rear - The EU requires that all cars have powerful rear facing fog lamps - much more important that the car behind see you than the other way 'round
- VH5 - VIN plate has to also be attached to the engine block
- V76 - Tow Hooks - Europeans do not hoist their cars on to flatbeds by looping a chain around the suspension. They use proper tow hooks front and rear
- U03 - Horn Noise Regulation - Europe has stricter noise regs and so the horn has to conform
- B4H - Export Modification Noise Control - Europe has stricter noise regs so the exhaust note is more subdued
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Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Hi silverback
I've noticed the following differences between the US-spec and the EU-spec [comments from other readers are much appreciated].
I've noticed the following differences between the US-spec and the EU-spec [comments from other readers are much appreciated].
- 6X1/7X1 - Component FRT LH - I believe these are the explosives under the hood that will blow the hood clear of the windshield in the event a pedestrian hits the car - these regs are the reason why all manufacturers had to get rid of pop up headlights including Corvette of course
- BAG - Export Parts Package - Europe-delivered Corvettes and Cadillacs get a grab bag of goodies that US market cars do not
- CE4 - Washer Headlamp - EU cars get cool headlamp washers. Needed in Europe because at high speeds need to know where you are going
- NE4 - Emission System EEC 14 - Has to abide by European emissions standards which are now stricter than the US. 20 years ago it was the other way around
- T4F - Headlamps Xenon, LED Park and Turn Signals - European side mirrors are much larger and you can actually see out of them; they also have the turn signals in them and in the rear the turn signals are also amber (but in the US too for this generation - for the C8 they removed it - no rational reason)
- T93 - Special tail & Stop Lamp - Given the need for a rear fog lamp the lighting in the back has to be re-arranged
- T79 - Foglamps - rear - The EU requires that all cars have powerful rear facing fog lamps - much more important that the car behind see you than the other way 'round
- VH5 - VIN plate has to also be attached to the engine block
- V76 - Tow Hooks - Europeans do not hoist their cars on to flatbeds by looping a chain around the suspension. They use proper tow hooks front and rear
- U03 - Horn Noise Regulation - Europe has stricter noise regs and so the horn has to conform
- B4H - Export Modification Noise Control - Europe has stricter noise regs so the exhaust note is more subdued
Probably our Mazda SUV. We would then buy a new German car (Audi, BMW or Benz) over there and eventually bring it home with us at the end of her tour.
Very informative thread!
Advanced
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 24
Hi JK23112
To sell your US-spec Corvette in Europe all you will need to do is add headlamp washers and they may have to fiddle with the exhaust noise - the rest is not needed. So my suggestion to you is to do it especially as you will have an in-built 30% price advantage when it comes time to sell it. As for buying a German car and bringing it back to the US you will not be able to do that until the car is 25 years old. As I suspect that you will not be living in Germany for the next 25 years I don't think that will work for you. Europe is much more relaxed about homologating on a single-basis US cars. The US is extremely strict and you have to make substantial engineering changes to the car to make it conform to inferior FMVSS standards - the cost to you will probably be around $60k and will take 6 months while you also have to post a substantial bond.
To sell your US-spec Corvette in Europe all you will need to do is add headlamp washers and they may have to fiddle with the exhaust noise - the rest is not needed. So my suggestion to you is to do it especially as you will have an in-built 30% price advantage when it comes time to sell it. As for buying a German car and bringing it back to the US you will not be able to do that until the car is 25 years old. As I suspect that you will not be living in Germany for the next 25 years I don't think that will work for you. Europe is much more relaxed about homologating on a single-basis US cars. The US is extremely strict and you have to make substantial engineering changes to the car to make it conform to inferior FMVSS standards - the cost to you will probably be around $60k and will take 6 months while you also have to post a substantial bond.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Hi JK23112
To sell your US-spec Corvette in Europe all you will need to do is add headlamp washers and they may have to fiddle with the exhaust noise - the rest is not needed. So my suggestion to you is to do it especially as you will have an in-built 30% price advantage when it comes time to sell it. As for buying a German car and bringing it back to the US you will not be able to do that until the car is 25 years old. As I suspect that you will not be living in Germany for the next 25 years I don't think that will work for you. Europe is much more relaxed about homologating on a single-basis US cars. The US is extremely strict and you have to make substantial engineering changes to the car to make it conform to inferior FMVSS standards - the cost to you will probably be around $60k and will take 6 months while you also have to post a substantial bond.
To sell your US-spec Corvette in Europe all you will need to do is add headlamp washers and they may have to fiddle with the exhaust noise - the rest is not needed. So my suggestion to you is to do it especially as you will have an in-built 30% price advantage when it comes time to sell it. As for buying a German car and bringing it back to the US you will not be able to do that until the car is 25 years old. As I suspect that you will not be living in Germany for the next 25 years I don't think that will work for you. Europe is much more relaxed about homologating on a single-basis US cars. The US is extremely strict and you have to make substantial engineering changes to the car to make it conform to inferior FMVSS standards - the cost to you will probably be around $60k and will take 6 months while you also have to post a substantial bond.
I did some looking around and it seems as though there might be quite a bit more to "converting" a 2017 Stingray to German standards than I originally thought. It's not just the headlamp washers, but mirrors, front & rear fascia pieces and a few other things. Don't know anything about the exhaust noise. Of course, I could sell it "as is" to another American over there if they're covered under the Status Of Forces Agreement. I'm thinking that it might be just better to sell it before we go............if she even gets the job that is. We expect to find out sometime after February 1st.
As far as buying a new car over there, it's quite easy to purchase/order a US-spec Audi or BMW at a discount. We can enjoy it "duty free" in Europe and bring it home to the USA without any modifications being necessary. She did that with her 2016 Audi TT when she lived in Belgium (and brought it back to the USA). It's parked outside our townhouse in Virginia right now. I even drove it to work last night. Just about 74,000 fun miles on it now.
The 25-year ban is for vehicles that don't meet US requirements from the start. My son's friend bought a 1993 (?) Nissan Skyline awhile back. Right-hand-drive, manual transmission and a model never sold in the USA. It's a "Japan only" car, apparently, and there's a huge enthusiast market for these cars in the US. Being 25 years+ old, they're eligible for "antique" license plates and are exempt from annual renewal fees, state inspection decals and personal property tax.
Considering our options IF she gets the position. Otherwise, we will be keeping the Corvette indefinitely. Thanks to everyone for the informative replies!
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
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Ah yes I forgot you were going in under the US Military exception.
The 25-year ban also applies to cars that are sold on both sides of the Atlantic. You CAN bring in an EU-spec BMW 5 Series but then you have to make many many changes to the car and that will cost $50-60k. Ironically I tried to bring back a 2013 Cadillac CTS-V EU version and was told it could be done but it would cost close to $45k to convert all aspects of the car including the chassis to the US version. And as your son's friend found out - you can bring in anything from anywhere as long as it is 25 years old. Bill Gates can now drive his Porsche 959 around Seattle all day long after it sat in a bonded garage for the past 25 years.
The 25-year ban also applies to cars that are sold on both sides of the Atlantic. You CAN bring in an EU-spec BMW 5 Series but then you have to make many many changes to the car and that will cost $50-60k. Ironically I tried to bring back a 2013 Cadillac CTS-V EU version and was told it could be done but it would cost close to $45k to convert all aspects of the car including the chassis to the US version. And as your son's friend found out - you can bring in anything from anywhere as long as it is 25 years old. Bill Gates can now drive his Porsche 959 around Seattle all day long after it sat in a bonded garage for the past 25 years.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Yes, she is retired Army......but still works for the Department Of Defense as a civilian. We would be covered under the Status Of Forces Agreement while there.
My dad was career military and bought a new 1984 Vovlo wagon in Germany before he came back home.. it had US specs......so no modifications were necessary.
We would be able to do that too - if we so chose.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
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ABsolutely corrrect - if you buy a US spec car then you are good to go. Americans sometimes order their German/Swedish/British cars through a US dealer in the US with the so-called 'European Delivery Program'. They get to pick up their car in Europe, drive it around on special license plates for the duration of their vacation and then ship it to the US at the end of their stay. You would be doing the same kind of thing.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
ABsolutely corrrect - if you buy a US spec car then you are good to go. Americans sometimes order their German/Swedish/British cars through a US dealer in the US with the so-called 'European Delivery Program'. They get to pick up their car in Europe, drive it around on special license plates for the duration of their vacation and then ship it to the US at the end of their stay. You would be doing the same kind of thing.
True.......but at a somewhat lower cost. The military has a discount "purchase program" with Audi, VW and Porsche (same company) and I suppose that BMW and Mercedes-Benz have similar programs as well. Apparently, they have a lower 'no haggle' plan that's still cheaper than in the USA and there is an option to pick up the car at the factory or at a German dealership.
Apparently, it is tax exempt while you have the car over there, but a smaller "duty" is paid on the US-spec German car when it is shipped back to the USA.....sort of like a sales tax you would pay in your home state on a locally purchased car off the lot. You also avoid the idiotic dealer markup and silly games played by the typical dealership in the USA + the car gets gets shipped back "free" when we return stateside.
I keep thinking about how this will work out, but have to keep in mind that she didn't get the job yet. Haha!! ! I don't want to be guilty of counting our chickens before they hatch. Three or four other applicants also were asked to interview for the position - so it's not a done deal yet.
Last edited by JK 23112; Jan 22, 2022 at 04:25 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
Likes: 24
Correct - but the duty coming into the US is small for everyone - only 2.3% or thereabouts whereas the duty on cars built in the US (inc all the German SUVs built in Tennessee and the south) incur a 10% import duty and then 15-25% VAT in most countries in Europe but not in Denmark - in Denmark it is a 10% import duty; 25% VAT and a car tax of 150%. Do the numbers and figure out the cost of a new Corvette in Denmark!! The US does charge a 25% 'chicken tax' on all pickup trucks and vans (light trucks) that are exported to the US. The name comes from the 25% tax that Europe slapped on US chicken imports in the early 60s. LBJ, in retaliation, slapped a 25% on light trucks and that tax has stuck and that is why you see no light truck imports into the US. Yes you do now see MB vans and Ford Transit vans but they bring them into the US with interiors that have been ripped out and they are re-assembled at the port to circumvent the Chicken Tax.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Correct - but the duty coming into the US is small for everyone - only 2.3% or thereabouts whereas the duty on cars built in the US (inc all the German SUVs built in Tennessee and the south) incur a 10% import duty and then 15-25% VAT in most countries in Europe but not in Denmark - in Denmark it is a 10% import duty; 25% VAT and a car tax of 150%. Do the numbers and figure out the cost of a new Corvette in Denmark!! The US does charge a 25% 'chicken tax' on all pickup trucks and vans (light trucks) that are exported to the US. The name comes from the 25% tax that Europe slapped on US chicken imports in the early 60s. LBJ, in retaliation, slapped a 25% on light trucks and that tax has stuck and that is why you see no light truck imports into the US. Yes you do now see MB vans and Ford Transit vans but they bring them into the US with interiors that have been ripped out and they are re-assembled at the port to circumvent the Chicken Tax.
I have always - generally - been opposed to tariffs. More often than not, it leads to a "one hand up the bat" situation which can end up causing a trade war. Besides, there's nothing like taxing your own citizens in order to punish a foreign government. Doh! That has never made much sense to me; on either a moral or economic level.
I had a friend who used to own a 1980s Subaru Brat. They came with hard plastic seats bolted into the bed (which many people removed after purchase) which faced backwards. This was so that the Brat was considered a "car" instead of a truck and Subaru avoided the higher tariffs levied on pickups. Perhaps that was one of the vehicles subject to the "chicken tax" too.
Last edited by JK 23112; Jan 22, 2022 at 01:53 PM.
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 57
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You are correct, in my opinion, on the tariffs. And they tend to stick around - the Chicken Tax is from 1964!!!! And the import taxes that President Trump slapped on Chinese imports have still not been taken off by President Biden to the detriment of people on tight budgets. And because of the Triffin Dilemma import duties do not help American workers that are displaced by imports - the intuitive reason that DLJ deployed on tariffs in the first place. Anyway this is a conversation that is straying off of our love of Corvettes ..... so I stop it now.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,914
Likes: 1,169
From: Keswick, Virginia
Exactly! It is unfortunate that these threads can sometimes go astray, although I admit that the Corvette Forum is not nearly as bad as most of the other ones. Probably because we are chock full of individuals who tend to have a little more sense & wisdom than the average bear.
FWIW, we're supposed to find out sometime next week if she got the position. Either way, though, we're good. We got married yesterday - Hoorah! - and will be together wherever the four winds take us.
Hope your weekend is going well.
3rd Gear
Joined: May 2024
Posts: 3
Likes: 1
side markers
I can help as ive bought mine from Germany in April, when i asked Chevy Europe what the difference was between usa models and EU models this is what they said:-
· 3 years / 100,000 km warranty
· 6 years warranty on corrosion
· 1 year of roadside assistance
· Standard Z51 Performance Pack
· Standard Performance Exhaust System (increases the output of 5hp)
· Standard Performance Traction Management (5 mode Traction Control system, similar to the one used on race cars. Stability Control System available on 3 of the 5 modes)
· Rear Fog Lamps
· Driver Info, Radio, Navigation with European language package
· European Audio System (European frequency, TMC and Digital Audio System DAB/DAB+/DMB-R)
· European Navigation System
· Standard Up-level Anti-Theft System
· Euro 5 homologation with lower CO2 emission rate (Default Driver Mode is set to Eco)
· Standard Magnetic Suspension with specific European calibration
· (Tour and Sport Mode are tuned for speed and handling e. g. German Autobahns and tracks such as the Nürburgring)
· Headlamps and rear lights to meet ECE homologation. Standard front headlamp washers
· Instrument panel and driver info use Metric system
· Front and rear tow hooks
· European specific noise calibration
· European regulatory compliance and labeling
· Rear cargo restraint system to meet ECE homologation
· Outside rear view mirrors with integrated side indicators to meet ECE homologation
· Electronic steering system with specific European calibration
· (more precise on center feel and specifically tuned for high speed)
· Standard Electronic steering column lock
· 3 years / 100,000 km warranty
· 6 years warranty on corrosion
· 1 year of roadside assistance
· Standard Z51 Performance Pack
· Standard Performance Exhaust System (increases the output of 5hp)
· Standard Performance Traction Management (5 mode Traction Control system, similar to the one used on race cars. Stability Control System available on 3 of the 5 modes)
· Rear Fog Lamps
· Driver Info, Radio, Navigation with European language package
· European Audio System (European frequency, TMC and Digital Audio System DAB/DAB+/DMB-R)
· European Navigation System
· Standard Up-level Anti-Theft System
· Euro 5 homologation with lower CO2 emission rate (Default Driver Mode is set to Eco)
· Standard Magnetic Suspension with specific European calibration
· (Tour and Sport Mode are tuned for speed and handling e. g. German Autobahns and tracks such as the Nürburgring)
· Headlamps and rear lights to meet ECE homologation. Standard front headlamp washers
· Instrument panel and driver info use Metric system
· Front and rear tow hooks
· European specific noise calibration
· European regulatory compliance and labeling
· Rear cargo restraint system to meet ECE homologation
· Outside rear view mirrors with integrated side indicators to meet ECE homologation
· Electronic steering system with specific European calibration
· (more precise on center feel and specifically tuned for high speed)
· Standard Electronic steering column lock