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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 03:12 PM
  #1  
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Default Lemon aid

Needing help with anyone familiar with FL lemon law or the lemon law in general, looking for some direction on where to proceed with a situation.

Facts

Car is a 2015 Z51 purchased out of my state, I'm the original and only owner but I have no idea if the sales state plays into this.

The problem was brought to the attention of the dealer about 1 week after I had the car for 2 years.

The car has been in the hands of the dealer for 13 days now, while not enough for any applying for anything yet they are no closer to a solution then they where 13 days ago.

I did not buy from the dealer who is working on the car, they have been very nice, loaner car all the time, calls to tell me what's going on to some degree.

They have preformed what I consider major surgery (replaced the torque tube) and still the problem persists.

Not trolling here, just looking for some direction to what's IMO turning into a situation that is not going to end happily. If I had bought the car from this dealer or they where competitive in pricing which they are totally not I'd be talking to them about trading it in on a GS or Z06 but they are just not in the ball park on pricing. I love my car, it's been perfect other then this but now I
m starting to get disgusted with the situation.


For multiple reason I prefer to not state to much about this situation and like to remain anonymous, just looking for some legal advice. I know in FL it's 15 days out of service within 24 months of ownership, as stated above I brought the car in shortly after 24 months, so can they just keep working on it forever?
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 03:32 PM
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For multiple reason I prefer to not state to much about this situation and like to remain anonymous, just looking for some legal advice. I know in FL it's 15 days out of service within 24 months of ownership, as stated above I brought the car in shortly after 24 months, so can they just keep working on it forever?

You're wise to start the process now by learning all you can, if what you suspect comes to pass. Should be easy attaining FL's LL statue via Internet, easy to understand w/ maybe even an application.
Wouldn't think selling dealer matters either, in-service date does because LL is between an owner & GM, dealer has no skin in this.

But honestly if it's legal advise you seek consider ponying up a few bucks for a sit-down w/ a licensed lawyer, ideally specializing in FL LL.
Get set straight out of the gate, $100 fee's a cheap education.

G/L, has to be a real bummer getting to this point when ownership's supposed to be one of life's better experiences.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 03:52 PM
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I'll chime in.

GM fixed mine on the final day before I qualified for LL. They almost exceeded the day limit on mine because the transmissions were on nationwide back order at the time and they shipped the one they found in some back room via truck instead of by air freight as they intended.

As the other poster said, a lawyer that specializes in this can help, but many here have no issues working the process without one.

Where you bought it from is not a concern. You should also be speaking with the dealer that is servicing this for you, they may actually be helpful even though they did not sell it to you (at least mine was). Also, try to call the owner of the dealer you bought it from. Some on this forum have had the dealer do a good-will buy back. Rare, but it has happened. You need to keep meticulous documentation. All service orders, transcripts of any phone calls with dates and times, a calendar of events is a very handy visual aid, photos, etc.

You stated above this occured after 2 years of ownership? I think the FL LL stops after 2 years. Check the Attorney General's LL web site.

One thing to keep in mind that weekends and holidays do not count in the count down. Also, just because you drop it off, that day may not count if they don't work on it - like if you dropped it off after 5PM.

Remember that the the trigger gives the manufacturer one final attempt to fix it. You make the application and file it and notify the manufacturer as the law requires and they usually get special folks to oversee the final attempt.

Please keep in mind that this is arbitration - no courts. I believe it is actually done by the BBB.

As I recall, the fine Florida Attorney General has a good web site on the process in detail. There is also some general information in the GM materials in the glove box too.

One other thing is that the "settlement" will deduct the use you got out of the car. I believe they use the mileage you put on the car in the calculation when they figure out the settlement. I believe if I remember correctly that they can either give the settlement in cash as a refund (minus usage) or an equivalent car, depending on what is available verses what options you have.

Last edited by Flame Red; Jan 9, 2017 at 05:37 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 04:00 PM
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I don't think Florida Lemon Law applies if you bought out of state.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 04:02 PM
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Look up the BBB Autoline on Google follow the directions. Also Krohn and Moss lemon law lawyers.

Last edited by QuickRoad; Jan 9, 2017 at 04:04 PM.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 04:04 PM
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The date I signed the paper work was Dec 11 2014, took delivery Dec 28th but car was shipped and probably picked up on the dec 23. I first brought it into the dealer Dec 18th 2016 so I'm kinda of in i have know idea land about the 24 months.

So if it's not in the 24 month window but it's under full warranty just where would I end up I'm wondering.

When the 15 days is up I'll be speaking with a lawyer, just trying to gather some info while I wait and wait.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by QuickRoad
Look up the BBB Autoline on Google follow the directions. Also Krohn and Moss lemon law lawyers.
Excellent advice,looked it up and it seems like a good direction.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 04:17 PM
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Probably the best place to get free advice on FL Lemon Law is here: http://www.myfloridalegal.com/lemonlaw. Note that Lemon Laws vary by state, so someone's experience elsewhere may not be relevant.

Is my vehicle covered?

Florida's Lemon Law only applies to NEW or demonstrator vehicles sold in the state of Florida. New or demonstrator vehicles that are leased in Florida are also covered, if they are lease-purchased, or if the lease is for one year or more and the lessee is responsible for taking the vehicle in for repair. If the vehicle is transferred from one consumer to another during the first 24 months after delivery to the original consumer, and both consumers use the vehicle for personal, family or household purposes, the consumer to whom the vehicle is transferred may be covered under the Lemon Law.

How The Florida Lemon Law Works

The Lemon Law covers defects or conditions that substantially impair the use, value or safety of a new or demonstrator vehicle (these are called "nonconformities"). These defects must be first reported to the manufacturer or its authorized service agent (usually, this is the dealer) during the "Lemon Law Rights Period," which is the first 24 months after the date of delivery of the motor vehicle to the consumer. If the manufacturer fails to conform the vehicle to the warranty after a reasonable number of attempts to repair these defects, the law requires the manufacturer to buy back the defective vehicle and give the consumer a purchase price refund or a replacement vehicle. The law does not cover defects that result from accident, neglect, abuse, modification or alteration by persons other than the manufacturer or its authorized service agent. DO NOT DELAY in reporting a problem as this may cost valuable time and protection.

Consumers should KEEP RECORDS of all repairs and maintenance. A written repair order should be obtained from the service agent (dealer) for each examination or repair under the warranty. The consumer should note the date the vehicle was taken in for repair and date he or she was notified that work was completed. Odometer mileage when the vehicle was taken to the shop and when it was picked up after repair should also be noted. Consumers should keep all receipts or invoices for payment of expenses related to the purchase/lease of the vehicle and to any repair.

If the vehicle has been back to the service agent for repair of the same recurring problem at least three times, the consumer must give written notification by certified, registered or express mail, to the manufacturer (not the dealer) to afford a final opportunity to repair the vehicle. Check the warranty book or owner’s manual or other written manufacturer supplement for the address given by the manufacturer. A Motor Vehicle Defect Notification form may be used for this purpose. Click here for the Instructions and Motor Vehicle Defect Notification form. Upon receipt of the notification, the manufacturer has 10 days to direct the consumer to a reasonably accessible repair facility, and then up to 10 days from delivery of the vehicle to fix it.

If the vehicle is in and out of the authorized repair shop for repair of one or more different problems for 15 or more cumulative days, the consumer must give written notification of this fact to the manufacturer (not the dealer), by certified, registered or express mail. Check the warranty book or owner’s manual or other written manufacturer supplement for the address given by the manufacturer. A Motor Vehicle Defect Notification form may used for this purpose. Click here for the Instructions and Motor Vehicle Defect Notification form. After the manufacturer’s receipt of the notification, the manufacturer or its authorized service agent must have at least one opportunity to inspect or repair the vehicle. The consumer may be eligible for a purchase price refund or a replacement vehicle if the vehicle is out of service for repair of one or more nonconformities for a cumulative total of 30 or more days.

If the manufacturer does not provide a refund or a replacement vehicle, consumers may invoke their rights through one or two arbitration programs. The dispute must be submitted for arbitration to a manufacturer sponsored program, if that program was certified by the State of Florida when the consumer purchased or leased the vehicle and the manufacturer's warranty or other written material explained how and where to file a claim with a state-certified program.

A list of Manufacturers who sponsor state-certified programs can be found by clicking here, or to find out if a manufacturer has a state-certified program, consumers in Florida may call the Lemon Law Hotline (1-800-321-5366), consumers out of state may call 850-414-3500. "State-certified" means the manufacturer's program meets certain state and federal requirements; it does not mean that the program is administered or sponsored by the State of Florida.

If a manufacturer has no state-certified program, or if the manufacturer has a state-certified program, but the program fails to make a decision in 40 days, or the consumer is not satisfied with the state-certified program's decision, the dispute must be submitted to the Florida New Motor Vehicle Arbitration Board, which is administered by the Office of the Attorney General. Click here to download a Request for Arbitration form, or contact the Lemon Law Hotline (1-800-321-5366; 1-850-414-3500) to obtain a Request for Arbitration form. The form is submitted for eligibility screening to the Office of the Attorney General.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 05:18 PM
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"sold in the state of Florida."

Gets so damn complicated so who LL is it if the car is bought in one state but never registered there. Any forum dealers care to chime in?
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by c7disaster
"sold in the state of Florida."

Gets so damn complicated so who LL is it if the car is bought in one state but never registered there. Any forum dealers care to chime in?
It does get complicated. I bought a new Cadillac in NY and live in CT and I looked into the lemon law because of an issue that I was having. I could not use the CT lemon law because I bought the car in NY state. CT told me that I needed to file in NY. Thank goodness my car was repaired and all is well, but I was very concerned.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 05:42 PM
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The question is how does the law see out of state sales to a Florida resident. Since most states attempt to tax sales from out of state to a state resident and since I assume you paid Florida sales tax on the purchase, I think you have a good argument that it should be covered by FL lemon law. That's just a my very non-legal opinion.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Zymurgy
The question is how does the law see out of state sales to a Florida resident. Since most states attempt to tax sales from out of state to a state resident and since I assume you paid Florida sales tax on the purchase, I think you have a good argument that it should be covered by FL lemon law. That's just a my very non-legal opinion.
Unfortunately the more I look into this the more I realize I'm probably in the under warranty but not under LL area so I have no idea what that means, they can take forever or never really fix it? They didn't even bother to update me today. Glad I have been through a lot worse in life or this would get me really upset. On the plus side the cruse rental gets outstanding MPG

Only had 1 other car in my life with an issue like this, a Chrysler. They were man enough to step up and buy me out but it was after 30 days in the shop.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 06:09 PM
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You need to protect yourself and file the required notice with the manufacturer after 15 days even if you think LL may not apply. Note that replacement/repurchase actually kicks in after 30 days of attempted repairs. If you don't file, you'll have no chance of recovery.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 06:21 PM
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We had another member in this same situation recently and I believe he filed in the state he bought the car. I can't remember who it was though.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 06:58 PM
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Does lemon Law apply from the state where a vehicle was purchased or where it is registered at the time the issues surface?
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ernest_T
I don't think Florida Lemon Law applies if you bought out of state.
Correct. Lemon Law protection varies from state to state, and the one that applies to the OP is the law in the state in which he purchased the car.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 07:26 PM
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OP, you need to familiarize yourself with the conditions of the lemon law in your state of purchase.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaphod B
Correct. Lemon Law protection varies from state to state, and the one that applies to the OP is the law in the state in which he purchased the car.
Originally Posted by Zaphod B
OP, you need to familiarize yourself with the conditions of the lemon law in your state of purchase.
Seems NJ (state of purchase) is not to different then FL, from my judgement I'm no longer in LL territory, more the limbo of under warranty and either non fixable or will take forever to fix. Really has me depressed as I totally loved this car. The longer this takes the less likely I feel I can go back to a GM product, this was my first GM, first Corvette. I never went back to Chrysler after my 300M disaster.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by c7disaster
Seems NJ (state of purchase) is not to different then FL, from my judgement I'm no longer in LL territory, more the limbo of under warranty and either non fixable or will take forever to fix. Really has me depressed as I totally loved this car. The longer this takes the less likely I feel I can go back to a GM product, this was my first GM, first Corvette. I never went back to Chrysler after my 300M disaster.
i had the TC issue with my Vette and after 40 days in the shop and a year fighting with GM and my dealer I sold the car. It didn't qualify for LL. I am too angry to contemplate another one now.
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Old Jan 9, 2017 | 09:28 PM
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I know this advice won't help you OP in your current situation but this can be ia problem when people don't drive their vehicles before the statute of limitations runs on their vehicle (under the Lemon Law applicable to their respective state).Ask me how I know -- We bought a brand new 2009 Silverado Texas Edition truck and didn't drive it much at all. It had the 100,000 mile or 5 year power train warranty on the truck though so when the lifters and cam shaft went out the FIRST time, (it was past the LL in Texas but wasn't worried as hadn't tried to have it repaired for this problem before). Then this same problem happened again and GM repaired it once again. However, by the time the lifters and cam shaft were replaced the THIRD time, it was out of the 5 year or 100,000 mile power train warranty and didn't qualify for LL because of the time frame between when we originally bought the truck ,the repairs etc.

We bought our Chevy truck to use on trips with our travel traveler so we made the mistake of not driving it much thus the problem wasn't apparent until it was too late to qualify for GM buying it back under TEXAS LL! Anyways, this same problem happened a fourth time in 2015 then again a fifth time last year when we were actually on vacation ( had to replace the lifters cam shaft replaced again so out of our pocket ). In fact service rep at our local Chevy dealership said when we brought it back in that we needed to just fix it and trade the truck as this evidently was going to keep happening again and again --so we said we were done with this lemon truck... we traded it in last October on our friends 2012 F150 Platinum that he was trading in on another F150 at a FORD dealership. Our 2009 Silverado had about 66k to 67k miles on it and was 7 years old..my point is drive your vehicles as if there is a problem it should show up before you are out of your warranty period on your power train (our truck was covered twice by GM because of 100,000 power train warranty but now GM only has a 60,000 powertrain warranty). Anyways, we didn't drive our truck much and paid dearly for that mistake as this inherit problem with our truck would have shown up earlier than it did because we didn't drive it much !

Last edited by AttyVette; Jan 9, 2017 at 09:48 PM.
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