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Things are definitely happening quickly between Ford and GM. Such a great time for sports cars within both companies. Competition sure is great isn't it?
So, what's interesting is the ZR1 debut got pushed from NAIAS in January, to New York in April. They wanted to shift the release of the car for some reason, that remains unknown. The question was though, will the ZR1 be supercharged or won't it?
In my business it's common knowledge that building potent, reliable naturally aspirated performance is more expensive than forced induction. Yet, the C6 era Z06 was cheaper than the ZR1, and I think this caused a potential flip for the C7....the Z06 becoming the street/track car, with a more exotic ZR1 being more aimed at the ACR/GT3RS/etc
For hints, we can look at Camaro's lineup. The ZL1 is the performer, while the Z28 is the low production, higher priced track machine with the naturally aspirated, exotic engine. It's been confirmed that the Z28 WILL be naturally aspirated, so in GM fashion, that engine needs to be used across multiple platforms to reduce cost.
We also can look at Porsche, utilizing forced induction across it's lineup, while reserving the naturally aspirated exotic for the higher priced GT3/RS. Porsche has been the target for C7, that was made known, so mirroring the Porsche lineup structure..."more bandwidth" is also the target. Think mid engine upper end car, front engine/rear mid level and lower, etc. A 55k Corvette all the way up to the 150k Corvette.
We then see a Nurburgring Camaro with front dive planes and a rear wing that clearly sounded naturally aspirated and was marked as the "Z28"...it wrecked into the barrier. So, what was this car actually? I think it IS the Z28, but it was also the basis for the GT4 Camaro.
Today, Chevrolet announced the debut of the GT4.R Camaro in March at Pirelli World challenge. LT5 enters racing FIRST (think FordGT...built for racing, then sold to customers second), then debuts in the ZR1 the month following.
It was said that the engine was developed by Chevrolet Racing division (bowling green expansion happening now to build these engines) and is a 6.2 liter dry sump. This will be the LT5, racing in the GT4, debuting in March. This will be the motor in the ZR1. The ZR1 and Z28 are the brothers that top each lineup, even the similarities in the rear wing design can be seen.
The ZR1 is going to be NA and I've repeated since the Z06 debuted that the Z06 became the ZR1, and the ZR1 will be the track car.
My prediction on the LT5, and the ZR1 hood bump that people assumed would be for a larger supercharger:
I'm going slightly on a limb but, here's what I see. Tadge stated that a big cube engine was attempted but couldn't meet emissions/EPA targets. The Z28 retained the LS7, but it's lineup could endure that, as the Camaro has V6 and 4 cylinder cars, so Camaro could give a little. Corvette didn't have that flexibility.
So, how do you get more efficiency out of the LS7...it has to be through the heads. More efficient chambers, 4 valves/cyl, etc. You also can look at the Camaro's competitor, the GT350/GT4 car...flat plane, four cam, revs to over 8k, etc. Camaro needs something similar...it can't roll on an old pushrod motor, it needs this "exotic" engine also.
So, you take the LT block, bore it much like LS7, but you put in a long rod, reducing the stroke. This gives you a better rod/stroke ratio, more piston dwell time, higher rpm. You add in 4 valve heads, dual overhead cams that directly actuate rockers, no pushrods, now you can rev it safely. With reduced stroke, you'll give up torque though, and torque wins out of the corner...you need torque, so you pull out the tricks...a variable geometry intake manifold. For that, you need hood clearance. The variable intake also plays in to the LT5 history, as the 90-95 ZR1 had a variable runner also. I believe POSSIBLY we may see a fully variable runner though, ala LaFerrari.
550-565hp, maybe 7750 or even 8krpm, titanium rod...a true LS7 successor.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:09 PM.
Reason: Merged Posts
2 years ago I was basically told by friends that the Mid-Engine car and Z/28 Camaro will not only share an engine but a transmission as well. And it won't be a manual or a traditional automatic. It will be a DSG type transmission.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:09 PM.
Reason: No need to re-quote the previous post, especially if you're the next person posting.
I think the ZR-1 engine is going to be a close copy of what they plan for the mid engine car. This will be a way for GM to run the engine out in a (real world) limited production run setting. This goes true for the 10 speed automatic as well.
Last edited by RunningHot; 02-08-2017 at 12:23 PM.
I cant wait to see the new Z28 and hope it is N/A. If it ends up looking like it does in the camo wrap above....it is going to be a serious track weapon.
It HAS to be FI.
The front bumper on the mule shows all of those cut-outs is not a styling exercise.
Also, the ZR1 has to have more power than the Z06.
No way that can happen without FI.
I think the ZR-1 engine is going to be a close copy of what they plan for the mid engine car. This will be a way for GM to run the engine out in a (real world) limited production run setting. This goes true for the 10 speed automatic as well.
The 10 speed automatic is already out in the real world and not in limited quantiles. It's in the Ford F150(ford designed the 10 speed transmission that GM will be using).
I bet future generations of Corvettes will have a DCT transaxle.
^^^ Hardware wise, yea it's in the 2017+ F-150 (most 2018's have it), 2018 Expedition (just announced) and the 2018+ Mustang (announced earlier this month). As well as in the 2017 Camaro ZL1.
I'd expect GM to announce it being added to the 2018 trucks and SUVs to match Fords rollout.
Heck I'd expect it on the ZR1 car as well behind the larger supercharged engine.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: No need to re-quote the previous post, especially if you're the next person posting.
^^^ The 10 speed auto that Ford is using is not a modular design.
Do you have any evidence that GM has designed their version of the Ford 10 speed to be of a modular design so that it can be used in multiple applications(bolted to the engine or bolted to a torque tube and a differential)?
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: No need to re-quote the previous post, especially if you're the next person posting.
^^^^ The housing isn't modular currently but GM and Ford will be able cast different housings long term. GM is free to design a modular housing.
The issue isn't the internals, based on what I'd seen. The key is the manufacturing of each transmission is up to each OEM. And once launched each OEM is free to make adjustments to the design without the other. Basically it was the initial design was done to share development costs, NOT manufacturing costs.
The current FWD 6-Speeds were also co-designed by GM and Ford, but they no longer are identical.
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:10 PM.
Reason: No need to re-quote the previous post, especially if you're the next person posting.
I think the ZR-1 engine is going to be a close copy of what they plan for the mid engine car. This will be a way for GM to run the engine out in a (real world) limited production run setting. This goes true for the 10 speed automatic as well.
The housing isn't modular currently but GM and Ford will be able cast different housings long term. GM is free to design a modular housing.
The issue isn't the internals, based on what I'd seen. The key is the manufacturing of each transmission is up to each OEM. And once launched each OEM is free to make adjustments to the design without the other. Basically it was the initial design was done to share development costs, NOT manufacturing costs.
The current FWD 6-Speeds were also co-designed by GM and Ford, but they no longer are identical.
In other words, you can't back up your statement...
"Heck I'd expect it on the ZR1 car as well behind the larger supercharged engine."
If the so called ZR1 is nothing but a souped up C7 Z06, then you have no evidence that GM will design their version on the A10 with a modular construction.
The GM application used in the ZL1 and in their pickups do not require a modular construction, but would require it if used in the Corvette.
Also the new A10 design(even in a modular design) does not lend itself to be used in a mid-engine Corvette(unless you want to share the passenger compartment with the engine).
^^^ If the A10 is so good, I don't understand why a DCT is needed.
I assume the A10 is as smooth and quick as the A8, so why go to a type of trans. with a reputation for NOT being smooth?
Last edited by Steve Garrett; 02-08-2017 at 10:11 PM.
Reason: No need to re-quote the previous post, especially if you're the next person posting.
It HAS
Also, the ZR1 has to have more power than the Z06.
No way that can happen without FI.
It absolutely can happen without FI, it would just be at a huge cost and departure from what GM does as it couldn't be done with a V8. It could absolutely be done with a V10 or V12.
But logically and for many reasons, it doesn't make sense. Thus my comment.
Hold on a minute...this very exclusive supercar has a one speed transmission. I'm with GM, if they can build an automatic that shifts like a DCT (truly on command), but has the street manners like an auto (when in auto mode), it's worth talking about. The DCT's may be fast, but the Porsche seems to be the only one that doesn't kick you around in street mode, yet it still is more harsh than an auto.
02-08-2017, 10:58 AM
