C7 reliability generally blows
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
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Actually, at one point the CR survey showed something like this, with the essentially identical cars built for Toyota and Chevrolet in the NUMMI joint plant in California having different ratings despite being the same vehicle with only trim differences, Toyotas ranked higher.
Survey experts call this "confirmation bias." This is "a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions." (Follow the link for the whole quotation.)
Survey experts call this "confirmation bias." This is "a tendency to search for or interpret information in a way that confirms one's preconceptions." (Follow the link for the whole quotation.)
Last edited by Foosh; Mar 5, 2018 at 01:16 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 6,140
Likes: 2,745
From: Northeast
The knee jerk reactions here are so predictable. Anybody who puts CR down for whatever leftward bias they may have doesn't get it. I don't think that contaminates their product analysis for the most part. You have to take their stuff with a grain of salt. Were it not for CR, there would be no place to turn to for unfiltered data on stuff like car reliability or objective comparisons of consumer products. They get it wrong sometimes, but mostly they're pretty accurate.
But if you're happy with the steady flow of corporate propaganda and bullshit with no information to counter that, by all means, keep your mind closed and continue to wear your Make America Great Again cap. Just try not to shoot yourself with that gun you purchased to keep you and the family safer. As for me, I'm just sick of all this endless winning.
But if you're happy with the steady flow of corporate propaganda and bullshit with no information to counter that, by all means, keep your mind closed and continue to wear your Make America Great Again cap. Just try not to shoot yourself with that gun you purchased to keep you and the family safer. As for me, I'm just sick of all this endless winning.
Last edited by sTz; Mar 5, 2018 at 01:57 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
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Again, the more thoughtful people aren't saying that at all. I don't tolerate corporate propaganda or BS at all and always seek independent confirmation. I just don't think CR is a particularly reliable source in this case.
I do trust them on refrigerators, dishwashers, and washing machines, or any product where they have a very large database. Small data samples are always unreliable.
I do trust them on refrigerators, dishwashers, and washing machines, or any product where they have a very large database. Small data samples are always unreliable.
Last edited by Foosh; Mar 5, 2018 at 02:00 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,980
Likes: 3,826
From: Bainbridge Island WA
I hope you recognize the irony of your post. But you are wrong anyway. Like I pointed out in my first post on this subject, TrueDelta has been posting reliability information for years. J.D. Powers also comes to mind. CR is NOT the only one in the industry by a long shot. To claim so is simply not true.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 850
From: New Jersey
Why do you think TrueDelta is more valid then CR?
And as far as I know, JD Powers only published "Initial Quality" (what goes wrong in the first year??), I don't think they survey or publish longer term reliability like CR does, which I think is 6 years.
And as far as I know, JD Powers only published "Initial Quality" (what goes wrong in the first year??), I don't think they survey or publish longer term reliability like CR does, which I think is 6 years.
Last edited by ersatz928; Mar 5, 2018 at 03:36 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,119
Likes: 799
From: East Lansing, MI
There's no way to know definitively if TrueDelta is more valid, but it does post its sample sizes and so forth. CR doesn't. Both have the possible bias of soliciting responses rather than doing a random survey.
The best data is the manufacturer's warranty claim information, but of course that is proprietary and won't be released as it would be highly valuable to competitors.
The best data is the manufacturer's warranty claim information, but of course that is proprietary and won't be released as it would be highly valuable to competitors.
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Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 4,980
Likes: 3,826
From: Bainbridge Island WA
I never said it was, did I? I was responding to the erroneous idea that ONLY CR does this sort of thing. Why are you misrepresenting what I posted?
Last edited by mschuyler; Mar 5, 2018 at 04:33 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,017
Likes: 208
2025 C7 of the Year Finalist- Unmodified
While not ideal, it's not surprising that the 2014 C7 is more unreliable than some other cars. After all, practically every part on the car is new to the platform and this is a high performance sports car.
I'm more interested in what CR is saying about 2015, 2016, 2017 C7s.
I'm more interested in what CR is saying about 2015, 2016, 2017 C7s.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,182
Likes: 209
From: Orlando FL
I believe CR defect reporting is very picky. Perhaps the subtle trim differences did lead to additional defects? They don't have to be engine failures, or the like.
For example, perhaps many of the Corvette defects are simple things we are ALL here bitching about which are widespread like the creaking targa tops and replacing the leather center console piece where the leather separates from the padding. Both are defects. Are they a big deal, and would they change any of our purchase decisions? No, but it doesn't mean the data isn't valid.
Team Owner
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 46,295
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From: Northern, VA
St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
^^^While there were statements made at the time that the NUMMI plant made cars just as good in quality as other Toyota plants, the plant never reached "full production." My guess is what it took to make the end product a quality product, which made it non-competitive.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
It's possible that could still be accurate.
I believe CR defect reporting is very picky. Perhaps the subtle trim differences did lead to additional defects? They don't have to be engine failures, or the like.
For example, perhaps many of the Corvette defects are simple things we are ALL here bitching about which are widespread like the creaking targa tops and replacing the leather center console piece where the leather separates from the padding. Both are defects. Are they a big deal, and would they change any of our purchase decisions? No, but it doesn't mean the data isn't valid.
I believe CR defect reporting is very picky. Perhaps the subtle trim differences did lead to additional defects? They don't have to be engine failures, or the like.
For example, perhaps many of the Corvette defects are simple things we are ALL here bitching about which are widespread like the creaking targa tops and replacing the leather center console piece where the leather separates from the padding. Both are defects. Are they a big deal, and would they change any of our purchase decisions? No, but it doesn't mean the data isn't valid.
The vastly different ratings were purely a function of owner expectations based upon brand reputations at the time. Toyotas were supposed to be perfect, and Chevy's were supposed to be crap. That's the problem w/ self-report ratings.
Last edited by Foosh; Mar 5, 2018 at 08:29 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 541
Likes: 38
From: Temecula CA
I remember the Nummi issue well. Also, CR has had issues with the rankings of nearly identical badges from the same manufacturer. For example, Chrysler and Dodge. I distinctly remember widely different ratings between Dodge and Chrysler minivans, even though they were nearly identical. Bottom line is I'd never use CR as source for my automotive decisions.
Phil
Phil
Drifting
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,711
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From: Hillsdale NJ
As with everything else lately, people just ignore or attack any information that doesn't agree with their opinion.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 49,331
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From: Best Island in the U.S.
St. Jude Donor '12 thru '17
As with everything else lately, people just ignore or attack any information that doesn't agree with their opinion.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
As with everything else lately, people just ignore or attack any information that doesn't agree with their opinion.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
Here's my data: 3 previous corvettes (a C4, C5, and C6), owned over 21 years time and about 190,000 miles of use. My C7 (a 2015), over 3 years and 30,000 miles, has had more problems than all of the previous ones COMBINED. And GM's behavior and attitude towards its customers is so absurdly worse now than anything I've ever experienced in the past.
I don't need consumer reports to tell me how bad it is.
