Houston we have a problem... new damaged car
#82
EXACTLY !
I certainly dont blame OP for being upset about this, its a new car with ALOT of undisclosed repairs done ....The car fax is wrong! and legally i have no idea what this could mean but it seems like something needs to be corrected.
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Rebel Yell (09-01-2018)
#83
Instructor
it seems you have some incredibly bad luck. I’ve never owned anything but domestic vehicles and never found the build quality to be unacceptable. That said,your experience with a dealer has little to do with the brand, as their affiliation is pretty loose. Also, I have to ask why you felt asking for a carfax before purchase was prudent, but investigating alarming findings was left until after the deal was done? That paired with your obvious disdain for domestic vehicles makes me wonder if you aren’t just having buyers remorse for some reason, and trying to find a way out of your purchase.
#84
Melting Slicks
Thank you for your constructive thoughts. Regardless if the dealer was operating within Idaho laws its still wrong. They would not have been able to do that in many other states. Years ago I bought a new Audi A8 from a dealer in LA. The day I was to pick it up the salesman called me and told me he could not sell me that car. A porter had backed into a pole on the lot and damaged the rear end. Nothing super major and they could have fixed it and hid it but they did not. He found me another car. That's the right thing to do. Sadly doing the right thing is a dying art in this country.
I agree 100% you should have been told before the sale exactly what happened to the car as far as damage & being repainted. That's what a ethical dealership would do, instead of going by "what the law says".
Good luck getting it resolved to your satisfaction. Hope it works out for you.
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Rebel Yell (09-01-2018)
#85
Melting Slicks
The estimate attached to the thread by the OP seemed to be for $1629. State Law in Idaho requires the dealer to disclose damage exceeding 6%. Unless this was a sub $30,000 new Corvette, the dealer was under no responsibility to disclose the work. Perhaps being a nicer person than the one who is going to "burn the dealership down" would be a better direction. While a Corvette is a very special car, the buyer is nothing special because of the purchase. It is going to take a good argument as to why the OP should be above the Law.
Yep. Your right. That's the Idaho law and it's one that needs to be changed. Montana law reads differently and mandates the dealer disclose "any damage to the skin of the vehicle". It does not however eliminate the fact that they knowingly sold a high end car that had been through their body shop twice and did not disclose it. I'll find out when they open in a couple of hours if they are going to risk their reputation and stand by that law or do the right thing and buy the car back ( or replace it).
So it appears from your attitude that you would be accept things as they are if this were your car. Is that correct?
So it appears from your attitude that you would be accept things as they are if this were your car. Is that correct?
And his replies here are the same as in others threads of this nature. It's all about "what the law says".
This guy wouldn't know what the word ethics meant if it bit him in the a$$. Just ignore him.
#86
We should always be allowed to scream and yell over something we are not sure why we should be upset about... but we are. Car works good, looks good "after practically detailing it on the showroom floor", and even the carfax doesn't mention very minor damage of less than $2,000. Final verdict... I bought from a Bimbo hundreds of miles from home, did not get nearly as good a deal as I thought on a two year old car, and now I have severe case of buyer's remorse.
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SilverGhost (09-01-2018)
#87
Melting Slicks
You are absolutely right. None of us privileged few with Corvettes should ever consider being stuck with a normal Chevrolet! And, since we are privileged, we should never consider going by the laws of a state we don't even live in when we should be allowed to invent our own.
This is a vehicle being sold as new so any buyer should assume it has never been in an accident of any kind. Some nicks and dings here and there? Sure, all possible as part of the manufacturing, shipping and just plain sitting on a dealers lot type of stuff but getting hit by a plow??? At least from my perspective that seems to cross over into different territory but maybe not - according to the law...
Again, I don't know the specific laws in play here so just asking the question.
Last edited by JDSKY; 09-01-2018 at 03:54 PM.
#88
Who is inventing their own laws? After reading his experience the first question that came to my mind was: Is the dealer obligated, by law, to disclose the fact that this vehicle was in an accident (hit by a plow)? Should it have been recorded as such in the repair logs (which then would have shown up as such on the Carfax)?
This is a vehicle being sold as new so any buyer should assume it has never been in an accident of any kind. Some nicks and dings here and there? Sure, all possible as part of the manufacturing, shipping and just plain sitting on a dealers lot type of stuff but getting hit by a plow??? At least from my perspective that seems to cross over into different territory but maybe not - according to the law...
Again, I don't know the specific laws in play here so just asking the question.
This is a vehicle being sold as new so any buyer should assume it has never been in an accident of any kind. Some nicks and dings here and there? Sure, all possible as part of the manufacturing, shipping and just plain sitting on a dealers lot type of stuff but getting hit by a plow??? At least from my perspective that seems to cross over into different territory but maybe not - according to the law...
Again, I don't know the specific laws in play here so just asking the question.
No, by Idaho law and by the same law in many states, the dealer is not obligated in any way to disclose the repair. Idaho law states the disclosure is triggered when damage repaired exceeds 6% of the MSRP. Following the law to its letter would be the very definition of ethics for the dealer regardless of any revisionist history on here. Obviously, the dealer did not make the laws.
#89
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Mar 2000
Location: Pottsville, PA. USA Home Of America's Oldest Brewery Yuengling
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Sorry to hear about the damage to your new car. You keep harping on the fact Carfax doesn't show this? How would Carfax know what happened to this car? The car had lot damage done to it twice? The dealership isn't going to report this damage to Carfax? Did they sell you the car as a new leftover on an MSO or was the car titled? Did the factory warranty start the day you bought it? If this was a new car the dealer should do the right thing and refund your money or give you another Corvette.
#90
16 Vettes and counting…..
It seems to me that there is no gray area here. They sold you a supposedly brand new car that had had some substantial body damage...not just from shipping but from an additional collision with a snowplow. And although it's not on Carfax now, there is no guarantee it won't show up later, especially if some sort of insurance company was involved. They got caught....plain and simple. They should just buy the car back and refund your expenses.
It's a shitty situation. Sort of like marrying the sweet, virginal girl of your dreams and then finding out she had slept with the L A Rams. Do you keep her? Do you keep the car? Neither one appears worse for the wear. Hmmmm....maybe that was a bad analogy.
It's a shitty situation. Sort of like marrying the sweet, virginal girl of your dreams and then finding out she had slept with the L A Rams. Do you keep her? Do you keep the car? Neither one appears worse for the wear. Hmmmm....maybe that was a bad analogy.
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kenownr (09-06-2018)
#93
16 Vettes and counting…..
#94
Burning Brakes
You are absolutely right. None of us privileged few with Corvettes should ever consider being stuck with a normal Chevrolet! And, since we are privileged, we should never consider going by the laws of a state we don't even live in when we should be allowed to invent our own.
We should always be allowed to scream and yell over something we are not sure why we should be upset about... but we are. Car works good, looks good "after practically detailing it on the showroom floor", and even the carfax doesn't mention very minor damage of less than $2,000. Final verdict... I bought from a Bimbo hundreds of miles from home, did not get nearly as good a deal as I thought on a two year old car, and now I have severe case of buyer's remorse.
We should always be allowed to scream and yell over something we are not sure why we should be upset about... but we are. Car works good, looks good "after practically detailing it on the showroom floor", and even the carfax doesn't mention very minor damage of less than $2,000. Final verdict... I bought from a Bimbo hundreds of miles from home, did not get nearly as good a deal as I thought on a two year old car, and now I have severe case of buyer's remorse.
That said, if I owned the dealership I would have turned that specific car into a demo or loaner, etc. and then just sold it as used down the road since it is not right to pass it off as "perfect 2017" on the showroom floor.
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JDSKY (09-01-2018)
#95
Melting Slicks
No, by Idaho law and by the same law in many states, the dealer is not obligated in any way to disclose the repair. Idaho law states the disclosure is triggered when damage repaired exceeds 6% of the MSRP. Following the law to its letter would be the very definition of ethics for the dealer regardless of any revisionist history on here. Obviously, the dealer did not make the laws.
Either way, I'm siding with the OP on this one. No matter how you slice it the dealer should have been upfront on the condition of the car. If as you say the car is still considered in brand new condition per the law then there would also be no reason whatsoever for the dealer to hide this fact when representing that condition to any prospective buyer. That is simply doing business in an open, honest and fully transparent way. Something the law does not require but most people who do business with others still fully expect.
#96
Race Director
note to self- Checklist prior to signing...... "Salesman ______, has this car had any damage requiring any panel adjusting, replacement And/or paint work -- EVEN TOUCH UP -- done to it, once it left the factory when it was built? Put that it hasn't in writing.. thanks"
^^^^^^^ i will apply this to all new car sales... man that's tough OP. them saying they willget back to in a few days or whatever is them contacting the bosses boss and he in turn their counsel.. had this happen to me over a "flood car" sold from a chevy dealer that i purchased and found out what happened. afterwards.. the guy who traded the car in never disclosed it and it was repaired by a GM Dealer for CASH.. never showed upon the GM history.. 1.5 yrs later it did on carfax.. like C4 being detonated lol... if they don't take the car back you're in for it bro...
Truth be told, it may have been damaged coming off the trailer or maniac putting it up for PDI never lifted a vette before...
As for the front panels? that's ABSOLUTELY panel rub repair..you see when they tack that massive repair stuff on there it's to GET PAID BY GM FOR THE REPAIR which was probably a 1/3 of what it took for them to do it..
My C7Z was just painted.. remove paint and reinstall both front fenders..... but.... the fenders were never removed NOR repainted.. they were airbrushed, wet sanded and buffed in the corners of the cove vents due to paint chipping by the vents (happens to about 9 out of 10 Z06's).. that's how the dealer PAYS for the body shop to spend all the time needed to do a proper repair (in my case).. i have a detailed thread about it... with a copy of the service order which would lead someone to believe the car was dismantled.
^^^^^^^ i will apply this to all new car sales... man that's tough OP. them saying they willget back to in a few days or whatever is them contacting the bosses boss and he in turn their counsel.. had this happen to me over a "flood car" sold from a chevy dealer that i purchased and found out what happened. afterwards.. the guy who traded the car in never disclosed it and it was repaired by a GM Dealer for CASH.. never showed upon the GM history.. 1.5 yrs later it did on carfax.. like C4 being detonated lol... if they don't take the car back you're in for it bro...
Truth be told, it may have been damaged coming off the trailer or maniac putting it up for PDI never lifted a vette before...
As for the front panels? that's ABSOLUTELY panel rub repair..you see when they tack that massive repair stuff on there it's to GET PAID BY GM FOR THE REPAIR which was probably a 1/3 of what it took for them to do it..
My C7Z was just painted.. remove paint and reinstall both front fenders..... but.... the fenders were never removed NOR repainted.. they were airbrushed, wet sanded and buffed in the corners of the cove vents due to paint chipping by the vents (happens to about 9 out of 10 Z06's).. that's how the dealer PAYS for the body shop to spend all the time needed to do a proper repair (in my case).. i have a detailed thread about it... with a copy of the service order which would lead someone to believe the car was dismantled.
#97
I have been in the dealerships for 26yrs and see this all the time, I work for a German car manufacture and I tell you this, there quality sucks, more **** wrong with them than I’ve ever seen!!! Blown transmissions, missing rockers, ac doesn’t work, and they are the biggest water leak cars on the market!!!!! So you can have that German crap, and would take a Chevy over any German car on the road hands down, everyone wants to drive the car with the big star on the front but what a POS!!
If you want a car that u put gas in and drive, buy a Lexus or Honda, hands down the best car on the road, seen 5 people in my family buy Lexus and never had a problem and the oldest one in the family is a 2011 with 165k on it and has cost me nothing but tires and brakes.
if I was in your position, I’d be pissed no doubt and they should give you another car, they weren’t up front and just took you for a ride, Talk to the owner, and only the owner, the sale and can’t help you, there a$$ puppets and have to run back to there master and ask them the questions you have so cut there strings and go to the top!!! Best of luck.
If you want a car that u put gas in and drive, buy a Lexus or Honda, hands down the best car on the road, seen 5 people in my family buy Lexus and never had a problem and the oldest one in the family is a 2011 with 165k on it and has cost me nothing but tires and brakes.
if I was in your position, I’d be pissed no doubt and they should give you another car, they weren’t up front and just took you for a ride, Talk to the owner, and only the owner, the sale and can’t help you, there a$$ puppets and have to run back to there master and ask them the questions you have so cut there strings and go to the top!!! Best of luck.
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Corvette ED (09-02-2018)
#98
I have been in the dealerships for 26yrs and see this all the time, I work for a German car manufacture and I tell you this, there quality sucks, more **** wrong with them than I’ve ever seen!!! Blown transmissions, missing rockers, ac doesn’t work, and they are the biggest water leak cars on the market!!!!! So you can have that German crap, and would take a Chevy over any German car on the road hands down, everyone wants to drive the car with the big star on the front but what a POS!!
If you want a car that u put gas in and drive, buy a Lexus or Honda, hands down the best car on the road, seen 5 people in my family buy Lexus and never had a problem and the oldest one in the family is a 2011 with 165k on it and has cost me nothing but tires and brakes.
if I was in your position, I’d be pissed no doubt and they should give you another car, they weren’t up front and just took you for a ride, Talk to the owner, and only the owner, the sale and can’t help you, there a$$ puppets and have to run back to there master and ask them the questions you have so cut there strings and go to the top!!! Best of luck.
If you want a car that u put gas in and drive, buy a Lexus or Honda, hands down the best car on the road, seen 5 people in my family buy Lexus and never had a problem and the oldest one in the family is a 2011 with 165k on it and has cost me nothing but tires and brakes.
if I was in your position, I’d be pissed no doubt and they should give you another car, they weren’t up front and just took you for a ride, Talk to the owner, and only the owner, the sale and can’t help you, there a$$ puppets and have to run back to there master and ask them the questions you have so cut there strings and go to the top!!! Best of luck.
Do you normally bad mouth the product you make a living on and call the people you work for a$$ puppets or is your bravery limited to anonymous actions behind a keyboard?
#99
Racer
Thread Starter
You are absolutely right. None of us privileged few with Corvettes should ever consider being stuck with a normal Chevrolet! And, since we are privileged, we should never consider going by the laws of a state we don't even live in when we should be allowed to invent our own.
We should always be allowed to scream and yell over something we are not sure why we should be upset about... but we are. Car works good, looks good "after practically detailing it on the showroom floor", and even the carfax doesn't mention very minor damage of less than $2,000. Final verdict... I bought from a Bimbo hundreds of miles from home, did not get nearly as good a deal as I thought on a two year old car, and now I have severe case of buyer's remorse.
We should always be allowed to scream and yell over something we are not sure why we should be upset about... but we are. Car works good, looks good "after practically detailing it on the showroom floor", and even the carfax doesn't mention very minor damage of less than $2,000. Final verdict... I bought from a Bimbo hundreds of miles from home, did not get nearly as good a deal as I thought on a two year old car, and now I have severe case of buyer's remorse.
Back to the 6% situation since you think it's the only thing that matters. The law reads "6% measured by RETAIL repair costs. Their internal repair costs are about 4% of MSRP. On Tuesday I'm taking it to a reputable body shop to get their opinion of the work that was done and what their costs would be for all that work if I came in off the street. I'm pretty sure it will exceed the 6% and if it does, what say you now?
The other concern here is the history of the vehicle as it pertains to resale and knowing that the CarFax stays as it is. If the top line of the CarFax ever shows that that the car was damaged (at that time) then that changes everything. Anyone here would be concerned with resale and diminished value.
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Rebel Yell (09-02-2018)
#100
Le Mans Master
Who is inventing their own laws? After reading his experience the first question that came to my mind was: Is the dealer obligated, by law, to disclose the fact that this vehicle was in an accident (hit by a plow)? Should it have been recorded as such in the repair logs (which then would have shown up as such on the Carfax)?
This is a vehicle being sold as new so any buyer should assume it has never been in an accident of any kind. Some nicks and dings here and there? Sure, all possible as part of the manufacturing, shipping and just plain sitting on a dealers lot type of stuff but getting hit by a plow??? At least from my perspective that seems to cross over into different territory but maybe not - according to the law...
Again, I don't know the specific laws in play here so just asking the question.
This is a vehicle being sold as new so any buyer should assume it has never been in an accident of any kind. Some nicks and dings here and there? Sure, all possible as part of the manufacturing, shipping and just plain sitting on a dealers lot type of stuff but getting hit by a plow??? At least from my perspective that seems to cross over into different territory but maybe not - according to the law...
Again, I don't know the specific laws in play here so just asking the question.
It seems to me that there is no gray area here. They sold you a supposedly brand new car that had had some substantial body damage...not just from shipping but from an additional collision with a snowplow. And although it's not on Carfax now, there is no guarantee it won't show up later, especially if some sort of insurance company was involved. They got caught....plain and simple. They should just buy the car back and refund your expenses.
It's a shitty situation. Sort of like marrying the sweet, virginal girl of your dreams and then finding out she had slept with the L A Rams. Do you keep her? Do you keep the car? Neither one appears worse for the wear. Hmmmm....maybe that was a bad analogy.
It's a shitty situation. Sort of like marrying the sweet, virginal girl of your dreams and then finding out she had slept with the L A Rams. Do you keep her? Do you keep the car? Neither one appears worse for the wear. Hmmmm....maybe that was a bad analogy.