Lifter tick requiring a completely new engine?
Thread Starter
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
Lifter tick requiring a completely new engine?
Hey All!
First post and first well, corvette. Been lurking for a while but coming out of the woodwork with a somewhat odd situation with my '17 GS (A8)
Got the dreaded TC shudder to a point where I was confident I could show a tech so I brought it in for that, the MSRC update recall, and an rpm-correlated ticking I could hear during acceleration & cruising.
It's been in the shop about 2 weeks now, my service advisor called a week ago and said there were some lifter issues and misfires. Today they called and said they were going to order a completely new engine to fix the issue.
I did some searching and couldn't find anything outside of a TSB that doesn't mention RPM or acceleration.
TSB : http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...2017-1338.html
Original Post : https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ing-noise.html
Edit : This thread seems to indicate a similar issue
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505440
Hoping some of you could answer the following:
1) I can't possibly be the first to encounter this right? I'm having a hard time searching for LT1 issues across the web.
2) Shouldn't the misfires as claimed throw a CEL?
3) Should I even bother asking for an extension of the manufacturer's warranty? I'm feeling less confident about things now and I've already had the car for a year.
First post and first well, corvette. Been lurking for a while but coming out of the woodwork with a somewhat odd situation with my '17 GS (A8)
Got the dreaded TC shudder to a point where I was confident I could show a tech so I brought it in for that, the MSRC update recall, and an rpm-correlated ticking I could hear during acceleration & cruising.
It's been in the shop about 2 weeks now, my service advisor called a week ago and said there were some lifter issues and misfires. Today they called and said they were going to order a completely new engine to fix the issue.
I did some searching and couldn't find anything outside of a TSB that doesn't mention RPM or acceleration.
TSB : http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...2017-1338.html
Original Post : https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ing-noise.html
Edit : This thread seems to indicate a similar issue
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505440 Hoping some of you could answer the following:
1) I can't possibly be the first to encounter this right? I'm having a hard time searching for LT1 issues across the web.
2) Shouldn't the misfires as claimed throw a CEL?
3) Should I even bother asking for an extension of the manufacturer's warranty? I'm feeling less confident about things now and I've already had the car for a year.
Last edited by Rykros; Sep 7, 2018 at 03:42 AM. Reason: Added some possibly relevant info from camaro forums.
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,609
Likes: 490
From: Houston, Texas
St. Jude Donor '20-'21-'22-'23
Well first of all... Welcome to The Corvette Forum!
Sorry to hear about your car being in the shop.
If it is still under warranty I'd let them put a new engine in it. Just my opinion and what I'd do if l was in that situation. Others may have a different opinion.
.
Sorry to hear about your car being in the shop.
If it is still under warranty I'd let them put a new engine in it. Just my opinion and what I'd do if l was in that situation. Others may have a different opinion.
.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,058
Likes: 9,821
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Hey All!
First post and first well, corvette. Been lurking for a while but coming out of the woodwork with a somewhat odd situation with my '17 GS (A8)
Got the dreaded TC shudder to a point where I was confident I could show a tech so I brought it in for that, the MSRC update recall, and an rpm-correlated ticking I could hear during acceleration & cruising.
It's been in the shop about 2 weeks now, my service advisor called a week ago and said there were some lifter issues and misfires. Today they called and said they were going to order a completely new engine to fix the issue.
I did some searching and couldn't find anything outside of a TSB that doesn't mention RPM or acceleration.
TSB : http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...2017-1338.html
Original Post : https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ing-noise.html
Edit : This thread seems to indicate a similar issue https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505440
Hoping some of you could answer the following:
1) I can't possibly be the first to encounter this right? I'm having a hard time searching for LT1 issues across the web.
You could be the first and maybe the only one. Sometimes parts fail. That is why new cars come with warranties to cover the infant mortality failures that are the result of human foibles everywhere along the process from raw material to finished product. A lot of people in that long sequence and all it takes is for one of them to make a simple mistake.
2) Shouldn't the misfires as claimed throw a CEL?
Sometimes misfires don't trigger a CEL. You could have a P0300 code which is a misfire that can't be isolated to a particular cylinder. Depending on how often the misfire is seen this code may or may not set the CEL but will be in a history file.
3) Should I even bother asking for an extension of the manufacturer's warranty? I'm feeling less confident about things now and I've already had the car for a year.
They are treating you properly and addressing problems you didn't even know you had. As I said above that is what the warranty is for. The failure doesn't imply there is something wrong with the car. It is an assembly of parts from a lot of different sources and a problem with one of those sources doesn't mean there is a problem with any of the others. Even in the assembly of all those parts into a car just because there may be one assembly fault doesn't mean there are a bunch of others. You have a 5 year Power Train Warranty on the car and that should be sufficient to cover any future issues. If the water pump had failed would you be asking for an extension because you got a new water pump? With an internal part failing in an engine it is usually lower cost for GM to replace the engine than it is to pay for the tear down, part replacement and reassembly of the engine. That is more than likely why you got a new engine, they can also be sure it was built to the standard production process Vs a mechanic in a repair shop out in the hinterlands. A new engine might cost you $10,000 if you purchased it from GM but how much does it cost them? A lot less.
First post and first well, corvette. Been lurking for a while but coming out of the woodwork with a somewhat odd situation with my '17 GS (A8)
Got the dreaded TC shudder to a point where I was confident I could show a tech so I brought it in for that, the MSRC update recall, and an rpm-correlated ticking I could hear during acceleration & cruising.
It's been in the shop about 2 weeks now, my service advisor called a week ago and said there were some lifter issues and misfires. Today they called and said they were going to order a completely new engine to fix the issue.
I did some searching and couldn't find anything outside of a TSB that doesn't mention RPM or acceleration.
TSB : http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...2017-1338.html
Original Post : https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ing-noise.html
Edit : This thread seems to indicate a similar issue
https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=505440Hoping some of you could answer the following:
1) I can't possibly be the first to encounter this right? I'm having a hard time searching for LT1 issues across the web.
You could be the first and maybe the only one. Sometimes parts fail. That is why new cars come with warranties to cover the infant mortality failures that are the result of human foibles everywhere along the process from raw material to finished product. A lot of people in that long sequence and all it takes is for one of them to make a simple mistake.
2) Shouldn't the misfires as claimed throw a CEL?
Sometimes misfires don't trigger a CEL. You could have a P0300 code which is a misfire that can't be isolated to a particular cylinder. Depending on how often the misfire is seen this code may or may not set the CEL but will be in a history file.
3) Should I even bother asking for an extension of the manufacturer's warranty? I'm feeling less confident about things now and I've already had the car for a year.
They are treating you properly and addressing problems you didn't even know you had. As I said above that is what the warranty is for. The failure doesn't imply there is something wrong with the car. It is an assembly of parts from a lot of different sources and a problem with one of those sources doesn't mean there is a problem with any of the others. Even in the assembly of all those parts into a car just because there may be one assembly fault doesn't mean there are a bunch of others. You have a 5 year Power Train Warranty on the car and that should be sufficient to cover any future issues. If the water pump had failed would you be asking for an extension because you got a new water pump? With an internal part failing in an engine it is usually lower cost for GM to replace the engine than it is to pay for the tear down, part replacement and reassembly of the engine. That is more than likely why you got a new engine, they can also be sure it was built to the standard production process Vs a mechanic in a repair shop out in the hinterlands. A new engine might cost you $10,000 if you purchased it from GM but how much does it cost them? A lot less.
Racer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 259
Likes: 145
From: Missouri City Texas
In my search for a C7 this summer I came across a 2016 Z51 that the CarFax showed the engine was replaced at 128 miles. Obviously the CarFax doesn't indicate why it was replaced but I'd feel more comfortable with a replacement engine than your local tech's tearing down and rebuilding your current engine. How many miles do you have on the car?
Racer
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 489
Likes: 174
I have heard GM has unpublished internal TSBs as well. Sometimes a small group of engines receive defective parts or the parts get installed wrong and GM knows what vins these engines were installed in. If they get a complaint or failure they just approve a replacement right away if its something of a known issue. Be glad they are coughing up a crate engine some people here with engine issues had to really fight GM for crate engines vs tear downs.
Last edited by C5Driver; Sep 7, 2018 at 06:49 PM.
Thread Starter
4th Gear
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
In case anyone ends up finding this thread with a similar issue and wants to know the result I'm posting an update. Sorry if this breaks any rules about reviving old threads.
Ended up getting the engine replaced. Cylinder sidewalls were scored due to failed AFM lifters so the engine was unrepairable. During that time I had my wheels stolen while it was waiting at the dealership. Replaced wheels/tires/muffler/sideskirts/brakes. Also asked them to put in the new TC fluid as per TSB. Got the car back after a total of about 2 months. Worst part is, even after I got the car back there was still a very noticeable ticking noise(I'm well aware that DI engines tick). RPM fluctuation with AFM on was still present, but was dramatically reduced and the shudder was less prominent. Opened up a buyback case with GM.
Drove it for about a thousand miles, was hearing a constant grinding noise when slowing to a stop *and* when idling. Turns out its a torque tube issue. Likely due to improper install of the replacement engine. Car back in the shop waiting a week for backordered TT/Flex Plate. Took about 2 weeks. If you're getting an engine replaced it may be worth reiterating that they check the torque tube alignment, this seems to be a common problem with engine replacements.
Buyback finally went through. Process was slow but reasonable. No complaints there and no real ill will towards GM from me as the engine issue does seem to be a rare fluke from all searches I made. Unfortunately it really feels like AFM ruined the best car I've ever driven and I'm sad to see it go. May come back to a used vette some day but for now I'm out. Also inb4 should have bought a manual with the ducking under a chair emote.
Ended up getting the engine replaced. Cylinder sidewalls were scored due to failed AFM lifters so the engine was unrepairable. During that time I had my wheels stolen while it was waiting at the dealership. Replaced wheels/tires/muffler/sideskirts/brakes. Also asked them to put in the new TC fluid as per TSB. Got the car back after a total of about 2 months. Worst part is, even after I got the car back there was still a very noticeable ticking noise(I'm well aware that DI engines tick). RPM fluctuation with AFM on was still present, but was dramatically reduced and the shudder was less prominent. Opened up a buyback case with GM.
Drove it for about a thousand miles, was hearing a constant grinding noise when slowing to a stop *and* when idling. Turns out its a torque tube issue. Likely due to improper install of the replacement engine. Car back in the shop waiting a week for backordered TT/Flex Plate. Took about 2 weeks. If you're getting an engine replaced it may be worth reiterating that they check the torque tube alignment, this seems to be a common problem with engine replacements.
Buyback finally went through. Process was slow but reasonable. No complaints there and no real ill will towards GM from me as the engine issue does seem to be a rare fluke from all searches I made. Unfortunately it really feels like AFM ruined the best car I've ever driven and I'm sad to see it go. May come back to a used vette some day but for now I'm out. Also inb4 should have bought a manual with the ducking under a chair emote.
Last edited by Rykros; Jan 7, 2019 at 08:59 PM.
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,145
Likes: 340
From: Just About 40 Min's from NYC
Sorry to hear of your troubles, As if life is not complicated enough to have to deal with a headache like this, I am glad you got out. Hopefully some day you give it another try, Or find another car that you like
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 98
Likes: 50
From: Horse Cave, KY
I've had this same lifter issue in a few GM vehicles and know plenty of others that have as well. This is the fist time I've read about a Vette having the problem but the AFM and lifters are the same setup so I'm not surprised. We had a 2009 Pontiac G8 GT that I was able to just replace a lifter because of catching it so soon. Our sons 2012 Chevy Silverado had 2 lifters replaced a while back and now needs a new engine. Most of the issues I personally know of have been happening when the vehicles reach around 60,000-70,000 miles but I have read of many having the problems earlier. I've owned many GM fullsize trucks and SUV's and most but not all of them that have AFM have had the transmission shudder even on the A6 transmissions. I've also found that the lifter tick doesn't throw a CEL or show a misfire initially but it will after it's been ticking for a while.
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Sounds to me like the dealer is treating you right & doing the right thing here. I would much rather have a brand new engine installed vs a rebuild
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 16,671
Likes: 7,738
From: NJ
OP. Outside of the 2 months down you made out well. Good for you. Did you recoup all expenses for purchase?
or was there a usage fee applied?
and you're not the first with LT engine afm lifter issues. Much less prevalent at least so far than LS based engine afm issues but not out long enough STILL to know if they will fail at a higher rate than will keep us satisfied.
good luck and hopefully you will share the next car purchase decision. as we all learn something from others experiences.
or was there a usage fee applied?
and you're not the first with LT engine afm lifter issues. Much less prevalent at least so far than LS based engine afm issues but not out long enough STILL to know if they will fail at a higher rate than will keep us satisfied.
good luck and hopefully you will share the next car purchase decision. as we all learn something from others experiences.