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So it's not a full 5000 but it’s many times higher the ~80 or so vocal minority! I post for them!
And what would folks who think it’s not needed do IF the proof you seek was posted. Add one to late! Probably not it’s easier to keep ones head in the sand!
There is even more evidence about the LT4 and coking that was published in a reputable mag from info obtained in a two day interview with the GM chief small block engineer. I put the quotes in my PDF along wih a response from the author to an email I sent asking if the printed comments came from the interview. He responded and said Yes. Don’t expect some of the vocal minority to believe what goes against what they want to believe!
Folks who think GM could never say that had a fit when I posted, so I avoid quoting in posts but the quotes about coking and names are in my PDF! Anyone can look up the published source. Have an engineering acquaintance who works for GM and anything said it print not cleared by GM attorneys is grounds for dismissal! Can’t blame them nor Tadge’s words that at times appear to be carefully chosen or washed by an attorney!
As I end all these: Your car do as you wish as will I!
Your case would be a lot stronger if you had any evidence at all that this build up occurs and reduces performance on these engines. I asked for any evidence at all a long time ago, and despite so many people using catch cans, none of you has shown any evidence, at all, that demonstrates the problem.
Now if your only problem with this buildup is cosmetic, and it's INSIDE THE ENGINE... then... wow...
^^^
The evidence is GM spent engineering time and money improving that “not existant” cosmetic only problem for the 2017 and later dry sump! I now collect only half the “stuff” in my Grand Sport I was in my 2014 dry sump!
They put a type of catch can in the LT1 Camaro wet sump that Tadge notes returns the oil to the pan. By they way that is not yet in the Vette wet sump. They didn’t do that for fun.
When you do find the evidence “you think” is important, like how thick that cosmetic deposit needs to be on the backs of the intake valves before it is an issue “you think” is too much, then what will you do? Wow!
Why don’t you do the research to see why other quality car companies, like BMW, Ferrari, Porsche etc who know how to build high performance engines think DI creates some level of a ‘coking’ issue. Check out why Toyotta has an engine that operates with Port Injection and DI for the benifits of both.
They put a type of catch can in the LT1 Camaro wet sump that Tadge notes returns the oil to the pan.
Jerry...for the umpteenth time, that is on the clean side to capture any fumes when crankcase pressures rise at WOT. Corvette LT1 have a similar function built into the valve covers.
Jerry...for the umpteenth time, that is on the clean side to capture any fumes when crankcase pressures rise at WOT. Corvette LT1 have a similar function built into the valve covers.
And the engineering time and money GM spent to improve the PVC system in 2017 and later dry sumps to reduce the “only cosmetic” non existant problem? (I’m collecting half the amount-but still collecting and dumping in my 2017 dry sump.)
The fact that gasoline companies developed cleaning additives like Top Tier that was only required after the EPA said STOP dumping crackcase oil vapor and “stuff” on the ground in a road draft tube and ingest it to prevent coking on the back of hot intake valves. And don’t understand that now with DI it does nothing there as it doesn’t pass over the valves.
That BMW, Ferrari and Porsche engineers were so incompetent they did not know about the “magic GM solution” that makes PCV stuff bypass the intake valves that most said use Top Tier when they had PI to avoid? Sure since they had DI on high performance enginees before the C7 and have devised methods to reduce the issue as has GM-but not have it disappear. That Toyota has an an engine the operates with Port Injection periodically with DI or that Honda has some recent patents to minimize intake valve coking.
Whatever floats your boat!
As I have said I don’t really care if anyone adds one.
If they are afraid of warranty issues don’t add one.
If they can’t add a simple $150 catch can themself don’t bother as they probably won’t manage it properly.
If they think GM etc would add one if needed and have the average owner dump the collected oil somewhere every thousand miles or so when they know most don’t check their tire pressure or oil level as recommended. Don’t add one.
Suggest those folks worry about fingerprints on the door handle and brake dust as those can be seen and washed away.
And just don’t think about those intake valves!
PS: The Camaro and wet sump C7 do not have to burp air from a dry sump tank that comes from a scavenge Oil/Air pump in the engine, which they also don’t have. The EPA says you can’t dump that air from the dry sump tank (that must be disposed of) into the atmosphere so dump it in the air intake. No air pumped, no tank, no clean side air to worry about. Oh by the way, you wet sump C7’s you don’t have to change your oil at 500 miles as you don’t have that pumped air to dispose of. But if you think that is the issue I’ll retract it so you don’t go on about only that one issue! Address all the others if you can.
Jerry, your auto response is not in sync with the posts.
Hmm, I sited your post text to what I addressed and would not even bother with a Camaro engine compartment pic. Read Tadge’s comment about the Camaro “catch can” carfully BUT it’s such a small point I won’t worry about it in the overall coking issue.
Hmm, I sited your post text to what I addressed and would not even bother with a Camaro engine compartment pic. Read Tadge’s comment about the Camaro “catch can” carfully BUT it’s such a small point I won’t worry about it in the overall coking issue.
You sure did...by editing your original post after my post. Just look at the time stamp on my post and the edit time on your post. Very tricky!!
You sure did...by editing your original post after my post. Just look at the time stamp on my post and the edit time on your post. Very tricky!!
I don’t do tricky things! I wrote that on my iPad from Paris as leaving for the Rider Cup in 10 minutes! As I do with all my posts,I reread them and edit as when using my phone, which is a PIA as pushing numbers with my fingers is tough- I have to! I am usually on my desk top or lap top with access to pics.
Best I can do today is post a pic of Tiger Woods that I’ll take with my iPhone as cameras are not allowed and post on some unrelated post that I’mm Make fit my response, like you can learn even from old folk!
Carbon build-up on the valves of Ford's Ecoboost engines has been discussed since the first engine came out in F-150's in 2011. The valves do look like crap, but it doesn't seem to be a proven problem. Here's a link for your reading pleasure that may help. Ford began putting a port injection along with direct injection into their new 5.0L Mustang GT engines. However, I don't know if that has any bearing on this discussion.
IMHO, to catch-can, or not to catch-can is like buying an Extended Warranty. If it gives the owner peace of mind then I'm all for one. However, for myself I don't see the need for one, but again that's just me. Disclaimer: My opinions have been proven worthless many times by a higher authority that looks a lot like my bride.
Here's a link discussing valve coking for your reading pleasure.
I don’t do tricky things! I wrote that on my iPad from Paris as leaving for the Rider Cup in 10 minutes! As I do with all my posts,I reread them and edit as when using my phone, which is a PIA as pushing numbers with my fingers is tough- I have to! I am usually on my desk top or lap top with access to pics.
Best I can do today is post a pic of Tiger Woods that I’ll take with my iPhone as cameras are not allowed and post on some unrelated post that I’mm Make fit my response, like you can learn even from old folk!
Sounds like a great trip. No need to paste pictures of Tiger Woods on a Corvette Forum. Make note to yourself to not participate in interactive posts when you will not have an internet connection.
^^^
Did not. And lots of huge TVs all around on the good viewing spots but did not see that. Somewhat surprising, European TV is getting as bad as the US- high percentage of commercials in TV time between golf shots! With 50,000 people in attendence, in a venue that gets >20,000 for the French Open - very crowded.
Lots of walking. A friend recorded 18,000 steps as we walked the course many times!
Well aware it’s positive crackcase ventilation. Transpose letters often when typing, brain ahead of fingers!
Yep saw Ryder many times! But my spelling works for me. I follow President Andew Jackson’s comment- doesn’t take a very creative mind to think of only one way to spell a word!
Three engineering degrees and 6 patents since I semi-retired 18 years ago- I lean toward the creative! In fact I sell products made from 3 of them and license one to a major supplier. Pays for my car toys and Ryder Cup etc activities. (By the way the last two recent patents are for a welding helmet that filters air and includes a thermal electric cooling module. They are called PAPR’s but none available that cool effectively and it’s darn hot when production welding. The ACGIH just lowered the maximum allowable level of manganese fumes (an element in all steel) to ~1/3 of that allowed for the WWI poison gas- Phosgene. Currently a safety company looking to license. A good friend who is Chief welding engineer for a major shipyard has folks wearing painters type respirators to get below the TLV. Try that for 8 hours under a welding shield.)
And for my two recent books written for the CarTech Pro Sieres they pay folks to check spelling! Actually the wife does my proof reading when needed! She earns these trips and has a new BMW X5 as well!
Well aware it’s positive crackcase ventilation. Transpose letters often when typing, brain ahead of fingers!
Yep saw Ryder many times! But my spelling works for me. I follow President Andew Jackson’s comment- doesn’t take a very creative mind to think of only one way to spell a word!
Three engineering degrees and 6 patents since I semi-retired 18 years ago- I lean toward the creative! In fact I sell products made from 3 of them and license one to a major supplier. Pays for my car toys and Ryder Cup etc activities. (By the way the last two recent patents are for a welding helmet that filters air and includes a thermal electric cooling module. They are called PAPR’s but none available that cool effectively and it’s darn hot when production welding. The ACGIH just lowered the maximum allowable level of manganese fumes (an element in all steel) to ~1/3 of that allowed for the WWI poison gas- Phosgene. Currently a safety company looking to license. A good friend who is Chief welding engineer for a major shipyard has folks wearing painters type respirators to get below the TLV. Try that for 8 hours under a welding shield.)
And for my two recent books written for the CarTech Pro Sieres they pay folks to check spelling! Actually the wife does my proof reading when needed! She earns these trips and has a new BMW X5 as well!
I suspect the spell checker here doesn’t like PCV or Ryder and changes them for you to be helpful.
Hope you’re enjoying the Ryder Cup even with the US team stinking it up so far.
A truly great engineer once total me something that I have remembered for thirty plus years and it was this, “when anything changes always note what you changed that could have caused the change.
Long ago when I started my engineering career a smart person told me something that’s stuck with me all these years: “Always remember the difference between causation and correlation, they’re not the same even though most people think they are interchangeable.”
A truly great engineer once total me something that I have remembered for thirty plus years and it was this, “when anything changes always note what you changed that could have caused the change.
There has been many threads complaining how dirty the inside of the exhaust tips get. With that in mind when I returned from our recent 6500 mile road-trip what surprised me was how clean the interior of the exhaust tips were. I used two damp paper towels to wipe them down. The first paper towel was pretty dirty the second was fairly clean.
That lead me to my engineer friend’s point, what you changed that could have caused the change. So I decided to remove my CC a week ago and drove the car 220 miles. The amazing thing was after just 220 miles the exhaust tips were filthy....I mean filthy. It took five damp towels before the last paper towel was fairly clean.
So why did my exhaust tips become so filthy after 220 miles vs. 6500 miles when the only change was the catch can?
09-27-2018, 06:37 AM
