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I had an off earlier this year at Lime Rock (caught air on the uphill). Here’s a couple of pics of my frame at the point of the frame rail extension. The right and left side are similar. Does this look repairable?? Thanks It looks like the extensions pulled right out on impact.
Somehow, I doubt it. I'd find a very, very competent frame specialist to tell you for certain. I think back to that recent forum thread where a very new Stingray that had what looked like minor damage in the rear, and it didn't look anything like yours. Corvette said it can't be repaired. I hope yours is repairable.
Aluminum??? It's wasted, look at it. Aluminum only bends once, then it gets work hardened. Aluminum has no memory, unlike mild or high strength steel. Plus from the looks of it, the rail completely cracked apart. I'm an auto damage appraiser for 22yrs, and I see this every day with aluminum sheetmetal panels and cars that have aluminum unitized structural panels. Aluminum cracks very easy due to the work hardening once it bends the first time. In order to replace a main rail, gotta cut off the floor of the Vette, which is glued to the rail, the floor gets wasted in the process too, of course that is the proper procedure on a rail replacement. I'm sure plenty of "shops" would want to rig something up. Cant weld it either, it melts at a paltry 350 degrees, and GM does not sell, nor do they suggest any sectioning procedure other than rail replacement. Ugh, file a claim asap. You don't have the cash for this, I can assure you.
OP says this was damage sustained as a result of going off-track at Lime Rock, which was clearly a heavy impact. Unless he bought a special track policy, insurance isn't covering anything. Pictures can never be definitive, but it does look like a total to me too.
Correct. No track insurance that day. Sucks, obviously.
I thought the C7 shop manual referenced a procedure for welding new frame rail extensions which involved welding aluminum.
OP says this was damage sustained as a result of going off-track at Lime Rock, which was clearly a heavy impact. Unless he bought a special track policy, insurance isn't covering anything. Pictures can never be definitive, but it does look like a total to me too.
So Many are misinformed on the track and insurance issue. I've seen many claims handled while the car was tracked. It has to be an "organized" race event for a company to look to disclaim. And then they'll need a massive rebuttal to the attorney repped insured to prove there is no coverage. Dude, 26 years in this business, trust me, companies buckle quickly. Believe me. He should file the claim. Without seeing the damage overall, I wouldn't total the car. There's not enough to support it being a total right now, the cost of repairs would generally need to reach approx 75% of acv or the company would get a guaranteed salvage bid and then deduct that from acv and use the net result as the threshold. File the claim at no cost and get the benefit of your policy. That's why you pay for insurance.
Lasering measuring systems are now outnumber by jig mounted frame machines. All the German OEM's specify Cellette frame machines. GM utilizes CarBench.
So Many are misinformed on the track and insurance issue. I've seen many claims handled while the car was tracked. It has to be an "organized" race event for a company to look to disclaim. And then they'll need a massive rebuttal to the attorney repped insured to prove there is no coverage. Dude, 26 years in this business, trust me, companies buckle quickly. Believe me. He should file the claim. Without seeing the damage overall, I wouldn't total the car. There's not enough to support it being a total right now, the cost of repairs would generally need to reach approx 75% of acv or the company would get a guaranteed salvage bid and then deduct that from acv and use the net result as the threshold. File the claim at no cost and get the benefit of your policy. That's why you pay for insurance.
Not exactly-
My State Farm policy (Illinois) excludes the organized event like you mentioned, but then also excludes any use "On a track designed primarily for racing or high speed driving." There is coverage only if you are not doing "racing, high speed driving, or any type of competitive driving." The OP may or may not have been racing or competitive driving, but convincing the insurance company he was not doing "high speed driving" is going to be pretty tough.
Other people with other insurance companies in Illinois tell me they have the same exclusion.
Aluminum is readily weldable! My "guess" from the OP pics this will be repaired buy buying a new casting and extrusion etc and welding it together with a GM approved repair procedure! Most alloys can be welded with good strength and ductility. They sell all these parts. Easier than repairing a long steel frame!
The C7 frame is welded in Bowling Green from 10 castings, 38 extrusions, 76 stampings and 3 hydroformed section. Many welds are made with Pulsed MIG, the same process used for repair! Easier to learn than TIG welding! There is a caveat, it must be repaired by an Aluminum Repair Certified Shop. I wrote a book for the CarTech Pro series in 2015. They recently asked about the welding or aluminum, which is actually covered in the book for the C6 Z06 aluminum frame.
In preparation I interviewed three "aluminum certified frame" shops. One in town, another shop manager from that large dealer’s body shop in Atlanta and Hendrick’s body shop in Cary NC. The Hendrick shop is certified for GM, BMW, Mercedes and Honda all have aluminum frame parts. They all require special Pulsed MIG welders, a special aluminum frame machine, other aluminum repair systems such as special rivets, etc. They also require a separate room and a trained tech. With more frames for cars and trucks being made of aluminum there will be more.
Aluminum metls at ~1200 F! Cast aluminum, unlike cast ironl is NOT brittle and is readily welded. Just need to do it right! This 11 page PDF shows many C7 frame welds and several repair procedures from the 2014 Service Manual: http://netwelding.com/Aluminum_Chassis.pdf
The pic below is what I think will be done using the GM approved repair procedures. They would buy a new casting and whatever attaches to it and weld them together with Pulsed MIG. It is like steel MIG welders but pulses the power >100 times per second. Today they are all inverter based welders and cost >$4000.
Would be good if the OP lets us know what happens as we need to dispel this false info about aluminum frames! I'd let my fingers do the walking and call some body shops. In fact my first call was to a shop in town that does body repair including Vettes who told me they would not spend the money to build a separate room and train a tech but the large dealer in town has and if they got a C7 frame they would send it to them. Hendrick said they do aluminum frame repairs all the time!
Repairing the aluminum frame on a C7 is difficult and expensive. You need a shop that will take the time and effort to research exactly how the repairs should be done, and then have the equipment and knowledge to accomplish them.
One local body shop here fixed a C7 about three years ago that had received a light-moderately hard read end hit. They kept a scrap book (the owner got a copy also) with lots of photographs and information from the repair manual (can't recall if that was a GM repair manual or generic aluminum car repair manual). What looked like a $3,000 job on an ordinary car ended up costing something like $17,000. There are very few repaired cars that I would consider owning, but this would be an exception.
Having said that, I suspect OP's car is a total if it is repaired by a competent commercial shop. And the number of shade-tree shops that I'd trust to fix a C7 is close to zero.
Repairing the aluminum frame on a C7 is difficult and expensive. You need a shop that will take the time and effort to research exactly how the repairs should be done, and then have the equipment and knowledge to accomplish them.
No research required as you must follow the GM approved procedure. It specifies the wire type, size, weld size and the time between weld passed. Much of that into is in my 4 volume Service Manual BUT there are more detailed body shop manuals as well. The certified tech would have access to all that! There were similar repair procedures for the C6 aluminum frame. Just need to find a shop that is certified. Could ask the insurance company- they know!
Aluminum??? It's wasted, look at it. Aluminum only bends once, then it gets work hardened. Aluminum has no memory, unlike mild or high strength steel. Plus from the looks of it, the rail completely cracked apart. I'm an auto damage appraiser for 22yrs, and I see this every day with aluminum sheetmetal panels and cars that have aluminum unitized structural panels. Aluminum cracks very easy due to the work hardening once it bends the first time. In order to replace a main rail, gotta cut off the floor of the Vette, which is glued to the rail, the floor gets wasted in the process too, of course that is the proper procedure on a rail replacement. I'm sure plenty of "shops" would want to rig something up. Cant weld it either, it melts at a paltry 350 degrees, and GM does not sell, nor do they suggest any sectioning procedure other than rail replacement. Ugh, file a claim asap. You don't have the cash for this, I can assure you.
That is all BS! Aluminum melts at ~1200 F! GM has detailed repair procedure even in the Service Manual for C7 frame repair! Perhaps you're confusing an alloy used for a frame with a cold worked very high strength body or floor panel. Or you have been watching the GM adds about the Ford Truck floor! Funny GM is going to use an aluminum truck frame!
If you really believe what you are saying- guess you never fly in an airplane!
Aluminum is readily weldable! My "guess" from the OP pics this will be repaired buy buying a new casting and extrusion etc and welding it together with a GM approved repair procedure! Most alloys can be welded with good strength and ductility. They sell all these parts. Easier than repairing a long steel frame!
The C7 frame is welded in Bowling Green from 10 castings, 38 extrusions, 76 stampings and 3 hydroformed section. Many welds are made with Pulsed MIG, the same process used for repair! Easier to learn than TIG welding! There is a caveat, it must be repaired by an Aluminum Repair Certified Shop. I wrote a book for the CarTech Pro series in 2015. They recently asked about the welding or aluminum, which is actually covered in the book for the C6 Z06 aluminum frame.
In preparation I interviewed three "aluminum certified frame" shops. One in town, another shop meager from that large dealer’s body shop in Atlanta and Hendrick’s body shop in Cary NC. The Hendrick shop is certified for GM, BMW, Mercedes and Honda all have aluminum frame parts. They all require special Pulsed MIG welders, a special aluminum frame machine, other aluminum repair systems such as special rivets, etc. They also require a separate room and a trained tech. With more frames for cars and trucks being made of aluminum there will be more.
Aluminum metls at ~1200 F! Cast aluminum, unlike cast steel is NOT brittle and is readily welded. Just need to do it right! This 11 page PDF shows many C7 frame welds and several repair procedures from the 2014 Service Manual: http://netwelding.com/Aluminum_Chassis.pdf
The pic below is what I think will be done using the GM approved repair procedures. They would buy a new casting and whatever attaches to it and weld them together with Pulsed MIG. It is like steel MIG welders but pulsed the power >100 times per second. Today they are all inverter based welders and cost >$4000.
Would be good if the OP lets us know what happens as we need to dispel this false info about aluminum frames! I'd let my fingers do the walking and call some body shops. In fact my first call was to a shop that does body repair including Vettes who told me they would not spend the money to build a separate room and train a tech but the large dealer in town has and if they got a C7 frame they would send it to them. Hendrick said they do aluminum frame repairs all the time!
This OP's photos indicate that the right frame rail is cracked and also deformed all along the "boxed" rail opening, both vertically and horizontally (to the rear (right) of the arrows you placed on this pic.) The front crossmember, which is an extrusion, is serviceable, I can't think of any proper repair method to some how attach and weld the extruded crossmember into the hydro-formed portion of the right main rail. When done properly, the shop replaces the right side member and then has a fresh new part to mate the crossmember to. As an insured, I would not accept anything less. The aluminum alloy is toast on the main rail and is compromised completely. I'd refer anyone to I-CAR's sectioning procedure and even link the Chevy section procedures through I-CAR. Either that or all the auto body shops I've been to are doing it wrong all these years
This OP's photos indicate that the right frame rail is cracked and also deformed all along the "boxed" rail opening, both vertically and horizontally (to the rear (right) of the arrows you placed on this pic.) The front crossmember, which is an extrusion, is serviceable, I can't think of any proper repair method to some how attach and weld the extruded crossmember into the hydro-formed portion of the right main rail. When done properly, the shop replaces the right side member and then has a fresh new part to mate the crossmember to. As an insured, I would not accept anything less. The aluminum alloy is toast on the main rail and is compromised completely. I'd refer anyone to I-CAR's sectioning procedure and even link the Chevy section procedures through I-CAR. Either that or all the auto body shops I've been to are doing it wrong all these years
GM sells all the frame parts and has detailed procedures for removing and rewelding. All defective sections would be replaced. Even the C6 all hydroformed frame was repairable, in that case you buy a full frame section and cut out and use only the section needed. The C7 is made of many parts welded at Bowing Green. This aluminum frame certification by car companies is relatively new so the poor practices of shops in the past can avoided!
Have a friend who writes an aluminum welding column for the American Welding Societies Technical "Welding Journal." I am on several committees with him. I sent your comments to him as I believe there are others who feel aluminum is difficult or can't be welded. He is an aluminum expert and works for Miller/Hobart. I'll post his response.
GM sells all the frame parts and has detailed procedures for removing and rewelding. All defective sections would be replaced. Even the C6 all hydroformed frame was repairable, in that case you buy a full frame section and cut out and use only the section needed. The C7 is made of many parts welded at Bowing Green. This aluminum frame certification by car companies is relatively new so the poor practices of shops in the past can avoided!
Have a friend who writes an aluminum welding column for the American Welding Societies Technical "Welding Journal." I am on several committees with him. I sent your comments to him as I believe there are others who feel aluminum is difficult or can't be welded. He is an aluminum expert and works for Miller/Hobart. I'll post his response.
Wow, let's get hostile LMAO. Seriously bro I'm talking about OEM requirements only and not what uncle Tony can and or can't weld in his garage. Two different ball parks completely. No worries bro, just trying to help the OP. As a licensed damage appraiser, we adhere to OEM specs when preparing estimates and repair orders.
FWIW, these pics are from my 2015 CarTech Pro Series welding book. The C7 frame is easier to repair as there are many more parts, all replaceable. No need to buy a full hydrofromed side rail then cut out and use only the new section needed. The repair weld was specified in detail, wire alloy, wire size, use of Pulsed MIG, weld size and time to wait between passes.
Frame damage
