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FWIW, these pics are from my 2015 CarTech Pro Series welding book. The C7 frame is easier to repair as there are many more parts, all replaceable. No need to buy a full hydrofromed side rail then cut out and use only the new section needed. The repair weld was specified in detail, wire alloy, wire size, use of Pulsed MIG, weld size and time to wait between passes.
Thank you, you answered your own question. Re read my remarks. Buy frame rail and replace as needed. Geesh. Stated the same thing in the beginning. oh vey!
Wow, let's get hostile LMAO. Seriously bro I'm talking about OEM requirements only and not what uncle Tony can and or can't weld in his garage. Two different ball parks completely. No worries bro, just trying to help the OP. As a licensed damage appraiser, we adhere to OEM specs when preparing estimates and repair orders.
I'm not trying to pic on you! Aluminum has had a problem with many folks NOT understanding that it is readily welded -just not like steel. Body shops are particularly a problem since the techs are body repair folks NOT welding experts. If you use steel welding practices you have problems. For example, when welding aluminum you must brush the surface vigorously just before welding to remove the surface oxide. You should use a stainless wire brush and one "never used" to brush steel. The small amount of iron in a brush used on steel will cause a poor aluminum weld. Not all "welders" understand that! A certified aluminum frame repair tech would. Same issue with cast aluminum being equated to cast iron in terms of weldability or being brittle. They are far different!
There have been a number of forum threads and many folks saying the frame can't be repaired the C7 is scraped! They are certified body repair shops who know what they are doing and making repairs every day! I think the manufacturers requiring certification will help the situation. Buy the way insurance companies are not super happy as to be certified the shop "must agree" to only use OEM parts! Will relay my friends comments to aluminum welding in general not specially you.
The Vette means a lot to me. I’ve had 3 years of on track experience but the rear wheels lifted and when they came down, the car rotated. I’ve since picked up an 18 Camaro ZL1 1LE with Track Package. Quite a bit different than the C7 Z51. I’ll be buying track insurance from now on. I’ll be the poster boy.
I’m intrigued on the welding procedures and I’d be interested to look at offers for repairing both left and right sections. After that, the real money pit starts to fill in. I’m no welder and I’m glad that you guys are much smarter than me in that regard. I walk past the car every day and see potential.
Im in the Philly suburbs and I’m willing to flatbed the car a reasonable distance. Having you guys network would be great.
Matt, bet in Philly you have several aluminum frame repair certified shops. You can use your phone or call your insurance company (not saying they will pay in your case) they will know who is certified to repair an aluminum frame.
Removing "stuff" to access the fame parts that are to be replaced is typically where extra costs occur. No different than bent or broken steel frames!
So Many are misinformed on the track and insurance issue. I've seen many claims handled while the car was tracked. It has to be an "organized" race event for a company to look to disclaim. And then they'll need a massive rebuttal to the attorney repped insured to prove there is no coverage. Dude, 26 years in this business, trust me, companies buckle quickly. Believe me. He should file the claim. Without seeing the damage overall, I wouldn't total the car. There's not enough to support it being a total right now, the cost of repairs would generally need to reach approx 75% of acv or the company would get a guaranteed salvage bid and then deduct that from acv and use the net result as the threshold. File the claim at no cost and get the benefit of your policy. That's why you pay for insurance.
They don't cover the damage if the Exclusions Section of the Policy has this Statement: Any incident on a Surface Meant for Racing. My State Farm Policy has had that exclusion written in it for close to 15 years. It is in there right along with damage incurred due to an act of war.
The Vette means a lot to me. I’ve had 3 years of on track experience but the rear wheels lifted and when they came down, the car rotated. I’ve since picked up an 18 Camaro ZL1 1LE with Track Package. Quite a bit different than the C7 Z51. I’ll be buying track insurance from now on. I’ll be the poster boy.
I’m intrigued on the welding procedures and I’d be interested to look at offers for repairing both left and right sections. After that, the real money pit starts to fill in. I’m no welder and I’m glad that you guys are much smarter than me in that regard. I walk past the car every day and see potential.
Im in the Philly suburbs and I’m willing to flatbed the car a reasonable distance. Having you guys network would be great.
Thanks
Matt
From your pictures it looks like the frame neatly broke right where there is a section that is designed to be replaceable. The factory service manual has instructions on how to do that repair on both the front and rear of the frame. The instructions also provide welding instructions. A skilled body man that is certified to weld aluminum can do the job. The car is vastly more repairable than an equivalent unibody car would be. The parts are shown in the GM Parts Catalog. I think you are looking for the front rails p/n 84033904 and 84033903. The part on each side of the frame that is torn and broken has to be removed from the end of the side rail and a new rail welded on. Then you need to replace the front impact bar which crosses between the two front rails.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; Oct 14, 2018 at 02:50 AM.
Read the repair manual. When you do, you will instantly know this can be fixed. Whether it is worth fixing is another matter. It is true that any insurance company would total this car, but that has more to do with old taboos about frame damage than anything else. Many, many, many, local body shops will tell you things like “this car could never be safe again.” We landed on the fricking moon! Do you really believe them, especially when the repair procedure is so easily outlined in GM’s repair manual?
I did a very similar repair to this one in my garage with a pulsed mig welder exactly to GM specs. The big difference was that my female connector (as shown in your pic) did not have the cracks in it. I believe you need a repair one segment farther up than I did which means you are replacing the segment that the transmission, suspension, etc. tie into. That will be a lot more work, but it can be done.
Everything wrong with your car (in pics) can be fixed and fixed well to manufacturer specifications, some things are not worth fixing though.
Last edited by Luke42_02; Oct 14, 2018 at 05:18 AM.
Thank you, you answered your own question. Re read my remarks. Buy frame rail and replace as needed. Geesh. Stated the same thing in the beginning. oh vey!
Those pics you commented on were from the repair of the Aluminum C6 frame that was much more complicated. The C6 aluminum frame was like the steel frame, two long hydroformed side rails. To repair you had to purchase a new full rail and if only ~2 feet failed, cut that out from the new frame and weld it to the existing good frame. As I note in my PDF GM designed the C7 frame to optimize the strength and weight of each section. The long side rail had to be the thickness of the highest stressed area. For the typical front or rear crash, now just have to replace the crushable end section and weld that to the castings that holds the front and rear suspension arms.
SIDE BAR:
What is unusual for automotive is they are assembling and welding the frames at Bowling Green. This is usually done by a Tier 1 supplier and shipped to them for assembly. In fact my first (and only) visit to the Corvette plant was in the mid 1990's when visiting the Dana frame plant near Bowling Green that was making all the Ford F-150 frames at the time. We had supplied >100 Pulsed MIG welders for robots and some manual welders. We were also supplying the steel welding wire.
Made the trip to support my good friend, the National Accounts Manager as Dana wanted a price reduction dictated by Ford. Recall the statement, Ford has told us we need a 7% cost decrease and you'all will do the same if you want to keep the business! Typical automotive! That is when I would be brought along as I controlled prices etc! We visited the Corvette Museum after lunch and then attempted to go on a plant tour. As we were walking up to the entrance folks were leaving and said don't bother we were that last tour! Never to be deterred I made my buddy walk up to tour entrance.
There was a young lady outside smoking and she very politely said, sorry it was the last tour for the day. I gave her my sob story of having a 1993 40th Anniversary Vette (which I had at the time) and coming all the way from SC! She told us it was her last day as she was a nurse and when she moved to Bowling Green applied for a job at a local hospital but there were no openings so she took this job as a tour guide. The hospital called and said they had an opening and she started the next day!
She said she still had over an hour to work and would ask the boss about giving us a private tour! She did. I recall at the end of the tour she said now one of you can start the car being finished. At the time that was part of the tour. There was no question which of us would do that!
Jerry, Luke and Bill are all correct. Jerry, you are 100% spot on WRT aluminum. Whether steel or aluminum, the most efficient way to fix is to cut away the damaged portion of frame and replace. The GM repair protocol is to use what is called a "lap joint", which is a very simple repair. The C7 frame is loaded with them, and the frame design accounts for the loading limit the lap joint presents. Regarding work hardening, there are a lot of formed sections of the frame, and none of them reached the plastic strain level to be considered "work hardening" per se. What the OP's pic shows is typical overload damage from impact. Aluminum is a bit sensitive to high strain RATES and notches (when compared to low carbon steel). Every lap joint in the Corvette frame is a single lap, which means under loading, the root of the weld is a notch. The designer of the frame has to account for this in design "safety factor".
The damage is quite repairable, and while not an "anybody can do the job", there are some of us that have the shop and equipment to do this repair as a hobby. Shoot, two kids not old enough to drink fixed one with front frame damage.
The hardest part to fix if it is out of sorts is the frame where it transitions from the side rail next to the driver and it goes up and outside the fuel tank location. This is a tough place to straighten out with the cross member that protects driver and fuel tanks. The frame then then narrows to where the rear transaxle crossmember bolts. If that area is not distorted the fix won't be that bad.
Yes it will probably be totaled, but what a bargain for someone that can do the work. If it is distorted it is still repairable, but a lot of stuff like fuel tanks have to be removed, and that would run labor cost beyond economical repair. Thus putting this car back into service is not as much a safety issue as an economic one. After all, it will have a salvage title and this will cause buyers to shy away.
PM me if it is totaled. If the total price is right, this would be a fun project, but don't let it get to a place like COPaRT where they will cut away good stuff to assess damage. I would not hesitate fixing this then running the car on the track.
This would be a bargain track car and a good one.
They don't cover the damage if the Exclusions Section of the Policy has this Statement: Any incident on a Surface Meant for Racing. My State Farm Policy has had that exclusion written in it for close to 15 years. It is in there right along with damage incurred due to an act of war.
Bill
I hear ya man, but after 26 years I've seen insureds with B rate attorneys shred the policy language. Like I said, they pay. I guess you just have to see if from my perspective. I hope the OP at least gives it a shot.
My insurance company has a paragraph limiting the car for particular track events, even for teen educational events. I did push but did not go as far as hiring an attorney.
The car car was totaled as I expected it would be. This is the chance we all take on the track with our street cars. Hopefully this post will help me, educate us on frame repair, and convince others to think twice about track day insurance.
My options are:
Part it out.
Repair
Sell it
If I decide to sell it, it would read like this...
Its a 2014 Night Race Blue with Kalahari interior. 3LT with sueded wheel and shifter and Comp seats. Only mods are Brey-Krause harness bar and 5 pt belts. Needs all panels except passenger door and rear fender. I was thinking of converting to GS panels since so many needed to be replaced but for economical reasons, the standard panels should be plentiful from all of the early Stingray to GS conversions. The drivetrain is intact and everything runs (ran for a few secs since the radiator is toast). Needs two airbags. If needed for track only use, airbags and airbag components would not be needed. Wheel or two now have cosmetic damage. Tires are brand new PS3’s. Car has 38+K mikes. 7 Speed Manual
My insurance company has a paragraph limiting the car for particular track events, even for teen educational events. I did push but did not go as far as hiring an attorney.
The car car was totaled as I expected it would be. This is the chance we all take on the track with our street cars. Hopefully this post will help me, educate us on frame repair, and convince others to think twice about track day insurance.
My options are:
Part it out.
Repair
Sell it
If I decide to sell it, it would read like this...
Its a 2014 Night Race Blue with Kalahari interior. 3LT with sueded wheel and shifter and Comp seats. Only mods are Brey-Krause harness bar and 5 pt belts. Needs all panels except passenger door and rear fender. I was thinking of converting to GS panels since so many needed to be replaced but for economical reasons, the standard panels should be plentiful from all of the early Stingray to GS conversions. The drivetrain is intact and everything runs (ran for a few secs since the radiator is toast). Needs two airbags. If needed for track only use, airbags and airbag components would not be needed. Wheel or two now have cosmetic damage. Tires are brand new PS3’s. Car has 38+K mikes.
"Aluminum has no memory"...really? Not so. I was a paintless dent technician in a former life, and HATED working on anything that was aluminum, BECAUSE of the memory! It's actually worse than steel.
I hear ya man, but after 26 years I've seen insureds with B rate attorneys shred the policy language. Like I said, they pay. I guess you just have to see if from my perspective. I hope the OP at least gives it a shot.
I agree 100%, at least try to make a clam. 30 years in claims (major insurer) I personally paid these type of claims. The Exclusion language was more for the event you ran into a grandstand full of people killing/injuring them. We also totaled a car when the frame needed replacement for liability reasons. Also did not want to marry that car by having the owner call us for the next five years EVERY time there was an issue that had to be due to “the frame repair-replacement”. I’m not saying your company will do this so don’t flame me please. I’m just providing my experience and opinion, which is what I use to think these forums were for 😉
last week I was rear ended by a 16 y kid. waiting for the green light.....
I was told that the border of the frame/chassis has to be changed because is bent. The adjuster said that is piece that GM sells. Below you can se a picture, I could not move the car when the police asked me.
It is a GS 2017 with 5k. I have done 100 miles since I bought it. The repair will cost 20k and the insurance company did not declared the car totaled.
according to the adjuster they need to work 28 days with the car. I feel a bit uncomfortable
last week I was rear ended by a 16 y kid. waiting for the green light.....
I was told that the border of the frame/chassis has to be changed because is bent. The adjuster said that is piece that GM sells. Below you can se a picture, I could not move the car when the police asked me.
It is a GS 2017 with 5k. I have done 100 miles since I bought it. The repair will cost 20k and the insurance company did not declared the car totaled.
according to the adjuster they need to work 28 days with the car. I feel a bit uncomfortable
Words of encouragement here...I got hit by a box truck four months ago. Impact made his air bag deploy. Rear frame rail damage, exhaust, pushed into another car, minor damage in front, grill and front fascia had to be replaced. A mess, made messier by the GM strike which was in it’s fifth day at that point.
While it was about 11k in parts and another 8k in labor, my car was not a total loss. The estimate called for a 37 day repair. The repair was some two months behind schedule because of the strike, and it was about a month ago that my shop finally got all the parts.
Around the 10th of January, I saw the car with all of the damage removed down to the frame and where the rails had been cut. Tuesday my car looked like this....
Long story short, your GS repair shouldn’t be a source of worry, and it shouldn’t take as long as my seemingly eternal repair. As long as it’s a shop that you know and trust and a shop that’s certified to do aluminum frame repair, it should all work out.
Just from the recent spate of frame related posts in the last few weeks, it’s virtually a fact of Corvette life, any impact exceeding 10-15 MPH will result in some degree of frame damage. Thank Goodness a lot of it can be repaired. I’m looking forward to enjoying my C7 again, I hope you will too.
Long story short, your GS repair shouldn’t be a source of worry, and it shouldn’t take as long as my seemingly eternal repair. As long as it’s a shop that you know and trust and a shop that’s certified to do aluminum frame repair, it should all work out.
Just from the recent spate of frame related posts in the last few weeks, it’s virtually a fact of Corvette life, any impact exceeding 10-15 MPH will result in some degree of frame damage. Thank Goodness a lot of it can be repaired. I’m looking forward to enjoying my C7 again, I hope you will too.
IF the shop is "certified' the repair is not a compromise in performance. Conducted some interviews last year in preparation for a potential "How To.." book for CarTech Pro Siers at the request of the publisher. Wrote my first for CarTech in 2012 entitles "Advance Automotive Welding" and showed the Z06 aluminum frame welding repair requirements. Now many more cars with aluminum subframes etc that require certification from Mercedes, BMW, etc as well as GM. Once they get it from one the others accept it. It requires training techs, buying a Pulsed MIG welder etc etc. Not cheap so the number of body shops speeding the money and providing an exclusive area in the shop is limited.
PS: Question for the S2000_Europe;Was the 16 year old looking at his cell phone?
As a licensed damage appraiser, we adhere to OEM specs when preparing estimates and repair orders. 
IF the shop is "certified' the repair is not a compromise in performance. Conducted some interviews last year in preparation for a potential "How To.." book for CarTech Pro Siers at the request of the publisher. Wrote my first for CarTech in 2012 entitles "Advance Automotive Welding" and showed the Z06 aluminum frame welding repair requirements. Now many more cars with aluminum subframes etc that require certification from Mercedes, BMW, etc as well as GM. Once they get it from one the others accept it. It requires training techs, buying a Pulsed MIG welder etc etc. Not cheap so the number of body shops speeding the money and providing an exclusive area in the shop is limited.