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Pure gas or ethanol gas

 
Old 06-12-2019, 04:59 PM
  #41  
SilverGhost
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I shop price, but I always put 1 Oz of techron in after a fillup (17+ gals) to keep that fuel sender inside the tank from sulphating. A long and well known problem with gm sensors. When the Vette sits for six months or more,100 percent pure gas. Worked like a charm for a ten year old vette with 2400 miles when traded, and it drove 120 miles to the trade in dealer.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:07 PM
  #42  
LDB
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
I don't have a clue as to what it costs to refine 89 octane at the refinery and then what it costs to add 10% ethanol(to end up with 91 E10 at the retailer) at the local terminal vs just refining 91 octane at the refinery and then selling that 91 octane ethanol free gas at the retailer.

The Top Tier Conoco station near my home is priced at $2.89 for 91 octane E10, this morning. A block up the street, the Top Tier Phillips 66 has their 91 octane ethanol free gas priced at $2.89.

I bet they both of them get their gas from the same refinery in either Oklahoma or Kansas and the same local terminal in Brookline, MO. I can't imagine that the Phillips 66 station is taking a huge hit in profit's just to be price competitive with the Conoco station.

For me, I get 5% better gas mileage burning the Phillips 66 ethanol free gas in my Z06 and in my supercharged Mercedes, plus in my 1956 and 1964 Corvettes and my riding mower, and that is money in my pocket.
Most of the time (except for periods of very high crude oil price) E10 is more expensive to make than pure gas, but the price of pure gas versus E10 is seldom driven by that cost differential. It is mostly driven by the federal blend mandate. While only a few areas actually require ethanol, the blend mandate requires a certain number of gallons of ethanol to be blended into gas nation-wide, and with current gasoline demand, that number of required total ethanol gallons is close to 10% of all gasoline. So in most areas, that drives up the price of pure gas because selling more pure gas also means having to sell more E15 or E85 to stay even with the overall blend mandate. And if a person doesn’t like E10, he really, really doesn’t like E15 or E85. While I’m not familiar with the exact marketing situation in Missouri, from the way you are describing pricing, it must be that in your area, added ethanol acceptance from midwestern farmers makes it easier to sell E15 and E85 in your area, thus also making it easier to make pure gas without violating the overall blend mandate.

When I make posts like this, I also feel obligated to point out that it is not a Republican/Democrat issue or a Trump/Obama issue. Most politicians support ethanol for different bad reasons. Republicans support it to buy votes from farmers and wealthy ethanol plant owners. Democrats support it in the false belief that it helps the environment. It’s my “favorite” irony. Wouldn’t you know that one of the vanishingly few places Republicans and Democrats cooperate is the ethanol boondoggle. But even though I don’t like it for economic reasons, as I said back in February in post #7 that you quoted today, there’s no performance-related reason to avoid using it in modern cars.

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Old 06-12-2019, 05:27 PM
  #43  
JoesC5
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Originally Posted by LDB View Post
Most of the time (except for periods of very high crude oil price) E10 is more expensive to make than pure gas, but the price of pure gas versus E10 is seldom driven by that cost differential. It is mostly driven by the federal blend mandate. While only a few areas actually require ethanol, the blend mandate requires a certain number of gallons of ethanol to be blended into gas nation-wide, and with current gasoline demand, that number of required total ethanol gallons is close to 10% of all gasoline. So in most areas, that drives up the price of pure gas because selling more pure gas also means having to sell more E15 or E85 to stay even with the overall blend mandate. And if a person doesn’t like E10, he really, really doesn’t like E15 or E85. While I’m not familiar with the exact marketing situation in Missouri, from the way you are describing pricing, it must be that in your area, added ethanol acceptance from midwestern farmers makes it easier to sell E15 and E85 in your area, thus also making it easier to make pure gas without violating the overall blend mandate.

When I make posts like this, I also feel obligated to point out that it is not a Republican/Democrat issue or a Trump/Obama issue. Most politicians support ethanol for different bad reasons. Republicans support it to buy votes from farmers and wealthy ethanol plant owners. Democrats support it in the false belief that it helps the environment. It’s my “favorite” irony. Wouldn’t you know that one of the vanishingly few places Republicans and Democrats cooperate is the ethanol boondoggle. But even though I don’t like it for economic reasons, as I said back in February in post #7 that you quoted today, there’s no performance-related reason to avoid using it in modern cars.

Missouri is one of the SIX states that actually REQUIRE 10% ethanol be added to the gas. There is an exception in Missouri for premium as it is allowed to be sold without ethanol. I see on Pure-Gas.org that the number of stations selling ethanol free gasoline is increasing every month. Several years ago, it was mostly premium but now many of the stations being added t the list are selling ethanol free gas 87 octane.

I don't think that E85 is a big seller around here. There are only three gas stations selling it. People wised up quickly that they were not getting gas any cheaper after they discovered that their new FlexFuel vehicle got 30% worse gas mileage vs when they ran E10 in it. I do see that a station near me is selling E15 for 10 cents less than other's are selling E10. I doubt that many are buying it as it's gas mileage is also going to be worse than E10, offsetting the lower cost per gallon.

When I travel to Arkansas, I stop at a large Phillips 66 station on I-30 in Malvern, AR and fill up with 91 E10 in my Mercedes . All three grades are E10. In downtown Malvern there is a small Phillips 66 station that sells 87 octane ethanol free but his 89 and 91 are E10.

I asked the owner(he owns both stations) why he offers ethanol free 87 at one station and not the other. He said that most of his business at the I-30 location were travelers and it didn't make much difference to them and most were in late model cars designed for E10. He said the other station is for locals and a lot of them drive older cars/farm trucks etc, and have farm tractors, garden tractors etc and they want ethanol free gas but don't require the more expensive premium. He also has two C1's and a C2. That's how come I know him. He also said he sees no requests for ethanol free 91 octane, so he doesn't carry it.

Last edited by JoesC5; 06-12-2019 at 05:55 PM.
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