Stolen car
06-06-2019, 11:06 AM
#102
Burning Brakes
"It’s a Corvette owner’s worst nightmare or at least one of them.
You leave your prized 2016 Stingray at a dealership for routine service, and then you’re told it’s been stolen while there.
That bad dream just happened to Ronnie Woods, whose 2016 blue Corvette coupe was among more than a dozen vehicles swiped at three dealerships in Jacksonville, Fla., during a wild spree on May 17.
According to the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, Woods’ Corvette was one of eight cars stolen from Nimnicht Chevrolet that night, and more than $4,400 worth of tools was taken there, too.
The dealership sent this statement to actionnewsjax.com:
“Nimnicht Chevrolet is very sympathetic to our customers who have been affected by the burglary at our dealership. We are currently working with JSO and the customer’s insurance companies to help resolve this matter. Anybody that has any information on the burglary of Nimnicht Chevrolet that can help us identify these individuals please call JSO.”
Right next door, thieves took six cars off the Duval Ford lot, and a Jeep was stolen from a sister dealership, making a total of 15 vehicles missing at the three locations.
So far, only four of the vehicles have been located, including a truck from Duval Ford that was discovered at an apartment complex. Interestingly enough, a Chevy key was found inside that Ford truck, a key that belonged to a black truck stolen from Nimnicht.
Unfortunately, Woods’ Corvette still has not been located. He’s asking the public to be on the lookout for the Stingray, with Florida tag number HZC9E."
You leave your prized 2016 Stingray at a dealership for routine service, and then you’re told it’s been stolen while there.
That bad dream just happened to Ronnie Woods, whose 2016 blue Corvette coupe was among more than a dozen vehicles swiped at three dealerships in Jacksonville, Fla., during a wild spree on May 17.
According to the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office, Woods’ Corvette was one of eight cars stolen from Nimnicht Chevrolet that night, and more than $4,400 worth of tools was taken there, too.
The dealership sent this statement to actionnewsjax.com:
“Nimnicht Chevrolet is very sympathetic to our customers who have been affected by the burglary at our dealership. We are currently working with JSO and the customer’s insurance companies to help resolve this matter. Anybody that has any information on the burglary of Nimnicht Chevrolet that can help us identify these individuals please call JSO.”
Right next door, thieves took six cars off the Duval Ford lot, and a Jeep was stolen from a sister dealership, making a total of 15 vehicles missing at the three locations.
So far, only four of the vehicles have been located, including a truck from Duval Ford that was discovered at an apartment complex. Interestingly enough, a Chevy key was found inside that Ford truck, a key that belonged to a black truck stolen from Nimnicht.
Unfortunately, Woods’ Corvette still has not been located. He’s asking the public to be on the lookout for the Stingray, with Florida tag number HZC9E."
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Ronnie_W (06-06-2019)
06-06-2019, 02:44 PM
#104
Moderator/Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jun 2001
Location: Jacksonville Florida BWO Dayton, Cincinnati, Bloomsbury NJ, Cincinnati
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It took over a week for ANY news agency to fire a story out about all of the thefts. They were hiding the issue from everyone. IF it wasn't for a club member contacting a reporter none of this stuff would have been in print or on TV.
I know the owner, the company (no thing to brag about), hell, I took the car picture being shown on the news and the person that talked to the reporter to get ANYTHING out on this story here in Jacksonville. Two more dealerships were hit in Orange Park (city adjoining Jacksonville) 2 nights ago and that got covered.
Elmer
I know the owner, the company (no thing to brag about), hell, I took the car picture being shown on the news and the person that talked to the reporter to get ANYTHING out on this story here in Jacksonville. Two more dealerships were hit in Orange Park (city adjoining Jacksonville) 2 nights ago and that got covered.
Elmer
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Null Pointer (06-06-2019)
06-06-2019, 02:55 PM
#105
It took over a week for ANY news agency to fire a story out about all of the thefts. They were hiding the issue from everyone. IF it wasn't for a club member contacting a reporter none of this stuff would have been in print or on TV.
I know the owner, the company (no thing to brag about), hell, I took the car picture being shown on the news and the person that talked to the reporter to get ANYTHING out on this story here in Jacksonville. Two more dealerships were hit in Orange Park (city adjoining Jacksonville) 2 nights ago and that got covered.
Elmer
I know the owner, the company (no thing to brag about), hell, I took the car picture being shown on the news and the person that talked to the reporter to get ANYTHING out on this story here in Jacksonville. Two more dealerships were hit in Orange Park (city adjoining Jacksonville) 2 nights ago and that got covered.
Elmer
06-06-2019, 02:58 PM
#106
Moderator/Tech Contributor
Member Since: Jun 2001
Location: Jacksonville Florida BWO Dayton, Cincinnati, Bloomsbury NJ, Cincinnati
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Elmer
Last edited by eboggs_jkvl; 06-06-2019 at 02:58 PM.
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Null Pointer (06-06-2019)
06-06-2019, 03:19 PM
#107
I totally agree about the stealing! The problem is that generally it is a group that works an area for a short period of time and then moves on so you get the cluster of sudden thefts. Usually it is the dealer who suffers because they are stealing his inventory. It is not as common for the customer to lose their vehicle. I can't tell you how many I have lost, how much I have spent on deterrents, and how much insurance has cost me for the problem.
06-06-2019, 07:37 PM
#108
Formula 1
Very sad for any owner. Doesn't On-Star track vehicles for law enforcement?
Last edited by Spitfire Mk1; 06-06-2019 at 07:38 PM.
06-06-2019, 07:53 PM
#109
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Let's go to an example. If you're a watchmaker or repair watches and I take my watch to you, it is your responsibility as a professional, and the business owner to protect it to the best of your ability. Since "possession is nine-tenths of the law," but not THE LAW in this case, you still temporarily "own" the watch in your possession. MY watch. Now, unlike a car dealer there may be no "loaner watch" if mine is taken from your shop. But there might be. And if there is, I would hope you don't come to me asking for it back after three days while my watch is still being "located" or found, and your insurance company is negotiating with mine to determine costs that they will incur to replace my watch.
Thanks for the discussion.
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06-06-2019, 08:42 PM
#110
Race Director
OP. I hope you never get that car back. You really do not want it at that point.. at all.
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Ronnie_W (06-08-2019)
06-07-2019, 06:33 AM
#111
Do you have any reason to believe that their policy DOES NOT cover other vehicles on their lot or in their legal possession as indicated by a service contract writeup? It's a business, one that handles vehicles, one that has cars in their safekeeping, and one that, as you state, has had as many/most other dealerships do, vehicles stolen from. Therefore, it's not like I'm parking my car at my friend's house and it gets stolen, is it?
Let's go to an example. If you're a watchmaker or repair watches and I take my watch to you, it is your responsibility as a professional, and the business owner to protect it to the best of your ability. Since "possession is nine-tenths of the law," but not THE LAW in this case, you still temporarily "own" the watch in your possession. MY watch. Now, unlike a car dealer there may be no "loaner watch" if mine is taken from your shop. But there might be. And if there is, I would hope you don't come to me asking for it back after three days while my watch is still being "located" or found, and your insurance company is negotiating with mine to determine costs that they will incur to replace my watch.
Thanks for the discussion.
Let's go to an example. If you're a watchmaker or repair watches and I take my watch to you, it is your responsibility as a professional, and the business owner to protect it to the best of your ability. Since "possession is nine-tenths of the law," but not THE LAW in this case, you still temporarily "own" the watch in your possession. MY watch. Now, unlike a car dealer there may be no "loaner watch" if mine is taken from your shop. But there might be. And if there is, I would hope you don't come to me asking for it back after three days while my watch is still being "located" or found, and your insurance company is negotiating with mine to determine costs that they will incur to replace my watch.
Thanks for the discussion.
When you take your vehicle to a service source and sign a repair order, there has been a bailment for mutual benefit established between you and the service source. The company has a responsibility to exercise reasonable care for the vehicle while in their possession. This does not require them to take unreasonable precautions and as long as they meet those requirements your insurance is primary in case of theft.
There are millions of cars stolen yearly in the U.S. and yes the vast majority are stolen from private property such as your "friends house"... not a dealership. I am not sure what your "watch" scenario has to do with the subject. I can though assure you that your insurance is responsible unless you can prove extreme negligence on the dealers part.
This is a common misconception by people taking their cars in for service and thinking all responsibility is now the dealerships. Much has been written about this including previously on this Forum. This is simply not true and easily verified with a little research.
06-07-2019, 02:42 PM
#112
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Don't make so little of it and talk down to folks on the forum. But then, what you are saying is that most dealerships today shirk their responsibility and do not have "garagekeepers coverage." I'm sure you know what that means, and as a dealer with 40 years experience you may have even had that for your customer's benefit. Or not. So that IF their vehicle was stolen while in your care they would be covered regardless of what their insurance coverage was. Right?
Yes, in fact I do have reason to know the policy is not primary in the case of customer cars. I bought and dealt with those policies for forty years.
When you take your vehicle to a service source and sign a repair order, there has been a bailment for mutual benefit established between you and the service source. The company has a responsibility to exercise reasonable care for the vehicle while in their possession. This does not require them to take unreasonable precautions and as long as they meet those requirements your insurance is primary in case of theft.
There are millions of cars stolen yearly in the U.S. and yes the vast majority are stolen from private property such as your "friends house"... not a dealership. I am not sure what your "watch" scenario has to do with the subject. I can though assure you that your insurance is responsible unless you can prove extreme negligence on the dealers part.
This is a common misconception by people taking their cars in for service and thinking all responsibility is now the dealerships. Much has been written about this including previously on this Forum. This is simply not true and easily verified with a little research.
When you take your vehicle to a service source and sign a repair order, there has been a bailment for mutual benefit established between you and the service source. The company has a responsibility to exercise reasonable care for the vehicle while in their possession. This does not require them to take unreasonable precautions and as long as they meet those requirements your insurance is primary in case of theft.
There are millions of cars stolen yearly in the U.S. and yes the vast majority are stolen from private property such as your "friends house"... not a dealership. I am not sure what your "watch" scenario has to do with the subject. I can though assure you that your insurance is responsible unless you can prove extreme negligence on the dealers part.
This is a common misconception by people taking their cars in for service and thinking all responsibility is now the dealerships. Much has been written about this including previously on this Forum. This is simply not true and easily verified with a little research.
06-07-2019, 04:05 PM
#113
Don't make so little of it and talk down to folks on the forum. But then, what you are saying is that most dealerships today shirk their responsibility and do not have "garagekeepers coverage." I'm sure you know what that means, and as a dealer with 40 years experience you may have even had that for your customer's benefit. Or not. So that IF their vehicle was stolen while in your care they would be covered regardless of what their insurance coverage was. Right?
Every dealer has some form of Garage Keepers Liability. They would not be able to operate without it for various reasons. This policy is extremely complicated, hugely expensive, renewable yearly, and financially based on the dealerships loss experience. This policy certainly covers the dealerships assets other than floor planned cars which are normally covered under another arrangement. It will cover the dealerships liabilities in a number of areas.
While the policy covers the dealers liabilities, it will not cover circumstances where the dealer has no liability. If the dealer exercises reasonable care for the vehicles in their possession, there is no liability if they are stolen and the dealer does not in fact have an insurable interest in the vehicle.
You act as if though the dealer is some kind of ogre because they are not jumping up and paying for the customers car. As a point of law they are in fact not responsible for the car. This is why we buy insurance on our vehicles. Also as a point of law, if in fact there were to be a circumstance where the dealer had liability, the consumer's insurance would be free to subrogate against the dealer's insurance and you can be assured they would if possible.
06-07-2019, 10:58 PM
#114
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Yeh, well, here's a touch of reality.
I am certainly not trying to "talk down to the folks on the forum". In fact I am attempting to pass along information they should have but obviously some folks don't care to know the facts.
Actually, you DO talk down to folks on here as if they don't know nearly as much as you do because you've been in the car dealership biz. That may seem important to you, but the mere fact that you've no idea what all the backgrounds are of people on this forum shows a lack of caring. It's your viewpoint and experience to share, but not to try and bludgeon people with your overwhelming knowledge which will be more readily accepted if it's offered up in a different manner. You might consider that even if you don't agree.
Every dealer has some form of Garage Keepers Liability. They would not be able to operate without it for various reasons. This policy is extremely complicated, hugely expensive, renewable yearly, and financially based on the dealerships loss experience. This policy certainly covers the dealerships assets other than floor planned cars which are normally covered under another arrangement. It will cover the dealerships liabilities in a number of areas.
I know every dealer has some form of "Garagekeepers insurance", but there's more than one level, and more than one option for coverage. And you know that, too. It comes down to how much a dealership is willing to spend which may be prudent for them, but there's a fine line between cost-benefit, and making the extra effort to protect and provide for the ones who keep them in business--the car owner who leaves their car in their possession.
While the policy covers the dealers liabilities, it will not cover circumstances where the dealer has no liability. If the dealer exercises reasonable care for the vehicles in their possession, there is no liability if they are stolen and the dealer does not in fact have an insurable interest in the vehicle.
Covered above and based on level of coverage.
You act as if though the dealer is some kind of ogre because they are not jumping up and paying for the customers car. As a point of law they are in fact not responsible for the car. This is why we buy insurance on our vehicles. Also as a point of law, if in fact there were to be a circumstance where the dealer had liability, the consumer's insurance would be free to subrogate against the dealer's insurance and you can be assured they would if possible
Not really. If you read my first post on the matter (Post #63), I said nothing about dealers being ogres. My post was about a loaner car made to the OP, and his concern that the dealership could be asking for it back. Don't you think that's a very, very small price to pay for the "inconvenience" of the OP losing his car while it was at the dealership?
And I am not saying the dealer should be fully-reimbursing the OP for his lost car---altho it's not too difficult to imagine some believing that viewpoint. Cooler heads, and insurance companies will prevail, however. The two insurance companies will work it out and there won't be an element of subrogation (subrogation: where an insurance company legally goes after a third party that caused a loss to the insured). Why WON'T that happen? Because every dealer HAS insurance or "garagekeepers liability insurance." And the two insurance companies will resolve it. Again, it goes back to the level of insurance coverage by both parties but in this case one can only hope a dealership has lots of it if stealing cars from dealerships is a regular, or even occasional occurrence. And that's so that the OP's insurance company doesn't come out the loser in this incident. Insurance companies tend to have "long memories."
I'm sorry you didn't like my watch repair example. Maybe it was more tongue-in-cheek than realistic.
.
Actually, you DO talk down to folks on here as if they don't know nearly as much as you do because you've been in the car dealership biz. That may seem important to you, but the mere fact that you've no idea what all the backgrounds are of people on this forum shows a lack of caring. It's your viewpoint and experience to share, but not to try and bludgeon people with your overwhelming knowledge which will be more readily accepted if it's offered up in a different manner. You might consider that even if you don't agree.
Every dealer has some form of Garage Keepers Liability. They would not be able to operate without it for various reasons. This policy is extremely complicated, hugely expensive, renewable yearly, and financially based on the dealerships loss experience. This policy certainly covers the dealerships assets other than floor planned cars which are normally covered under another arrangement. It will cover the dealerships liabilities in a number of areas.
I know every dealer has some form of "Garagekeepers insurance", but there's more than one level, and more than one option for coverage. And you know that, too. It comes down to how much a dealership is willing to spend which may be prudent for them, but there's a fine line between cost-benefit, and making the extra effort to protect and provide for the ones who keep them in business--the car owner who leaves their car in their possession.
While the policy covers the dealers liabilities, it will not cover circumstances where the dealer has no liability. If the dealer exercises reasonable care for the vehicles in their possession, there is no liability if they are stolen and the dealer does not in fact have an insurable interest in the vehicle.
Covered above and based on level of coverage.
You act as if though the dealer is some kind of ogre because they are not jumping up and paying for the customers car. As a point of law they are in fact not responsible for the car. This is why we buy insurance on our vehicles. Also as a point of law, if in fact there were to be a circumstance where the dealer had liability, the consumer's insurance would be free to subrogate against the dealer's insurance and you can be assured they would if possible
Not really. If you read my first post on the matter (Post #63), I said nothing about dealers being ogres. My post was about a loaner car made to the OP, and his concern that the dealership could be asking for it back. Don't you think that's a very, very small price to pay for the "inconvenience" of the OP losing his car while it was at the dealership?
And I am not saying the dealer should be fully-reimbursing the OP for his lost car---altho it's not too difficult to imagine some believing that viewpoint. Cooler heads, and insurance companies will prevail, however. The two insurance companies will work it out and there won't be an element of subrogation (subrogation: where an insurance company legally goes after a third party that caused a loss to the insured). Why WON'T that happen? Because every dealer HAS insurance or "garagekeepers liability insurance." And the two insurance companies will resolve it. Again, it goes back to the level of insurance coverage by both parties but in this case one can only hope a dealership has lots of it if stealing cars from dealerships is a regular, or even occasional occurrence. And that's so that the OP's insurance company doesn't come out the loser in this incident. Insurance companies tend to have "long memories."
I'm sorry you didn't like my watch repair example. Maybe it was more tongue-in-cheek than realistic.
.