Track mode and suspension
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 566
Likes: 163
From: Earleton Fl
Track mode and suspension
At a Corvette club meeting last night, it was mentioned that street driving in track mode can cause collateral damage to the various parts of the car's suspension. There was NO reason given for this statement, but my GUESS is that the track mode removes some of the flex from the suspension, putting stress on some of the other parts.
Anyone ever heard this? Does anyone have any experience with this? I think it would be hard to tell if track mode did cause some damage!
Thoughts, please!
Anyone ever heard this? Does anyone have any experience with this? I think it would be hard to tell if track mode did cause some damage!
Thoughts, please!
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,067
Likes: 12,429
From: NE South Carolina
At a Corvette club meeting last night, it was mentioned that street driving in track mode can cause collateral damage to the various parts of the car's suspension. There was NO reason given for this statement, but my GUESS is that the track mode removes some of the flex from the suspension, putting stress on some of the other parts.
Anyone ever heard this? Does anyone have any experience with this? I think it would be hard to tell if track mode did cause some damage!
Thoughts, please!
Anyone ever heard this? Does anyone have any experience with this? I think it would be hard to tell if track mode did cause some damage!
Thoughts, please!
Decided to reprint part of the answer and put the point about Track in BOLD:
"....Wheel design is very complex and has to balance many attributes. Everyone wants beautiful wheels, but they also have to be stiff for good handling, strong to resist road damage and low weight. Un-sprung mass is the most important mass in the vehicle. You want light wheels because they enable the suspension to keep the wheel tracking the road surface and you want low rotating inertia because it affects how quickly the car can accelerate and brake. High mass wheels not only hurt handling, but they drive additional mass in the rest of the car. When you hit a pothole, high mass wheels generate higher loads into the suspension and body. As wheels get wider to accommodate wider tires, all these challenges are increased. For these reasons we spend a huge amount of engineering resources on optimizing wheels. We design wheels to withstand extreme pothole loads and test them on high speed laboratory equipment that can simulate the entire life-cycle of the vehicle. I have heard from some people that there is a theory that running the car in sport or track can contribute to damaging a wheel. That is not true.
People are often surprised that a wheel can be bent or cracked without any visible damage to the tire or obvious scratches on the wheel. Our tires have very stiff sidewalls for great handling and the ability to drive the car with no tire pressure whatsoever. As a result they can transfer loads to the wheel without being damaged themselves. A frequent sequence of events is that a wheel gets bent by a road hazard but the damage is initially almost undetectable to the driver. Maybe the driver notices a little more vibration, but many times not if the wheel is only slightly out-of-round (just a millimeter or two). A wheel that is not perfectly round puts stress in the rim that varies with every wheel rotation."
SIDEBAR:
HERE ARE SOME OTHER PARTS OF HIS POST SINCE WHEEL BENDING IS SUCH A CURRNT TOPIC:
"Thank you for the question, Jedi-Jurist. And I hope you are enjoying your Grand Sport! Your question raises a number of issues which I will try to address. I would like to start with your comment about “Chinese wheels”. No Grand Sport wheels come from China. In fact, the majority of our wide Corvette wheels (those most susceptible to bending) are produced by a company named Ronal which is based in Switzerland and manufactures wheels here in North America. A couple of our low-volume Z06 wheels do come from China, but regardless of where they are made, all Corvette wheels are built and tested to GM and Corvette specific standards.
"The question postulates a “rash” of wheel failures. Our field data does not suggest a recent significant increase in the wheel damage rate on our cars. There may be more reports of damage than historically, but, between the Z06 and Grand Sport, we are selling lots more wide-wheel cars than we ever have before. More cars on the road means more chance of hitting something in the road.
We do keep a keen eye on what our customers are experiencing in the field. I don’t know where you live, but the roads here in Michigan seem to be getting worse every year. I can promise you we will continuously improve our designs and validation procedures based how the world is changing."
I know some don't accept his explanation but so far I have 2 years on my Grand Sport Machined Faced Aluminum Wheels that say made in Mexico and have the Speedline name (a Ronal brand.)
Once the Grand Sport was introduced over half of the ~30,000 Vettes sold each year have wide wheels! That probably accounts for GM's statistics.
Last edited by JerryU; Jun 6, 2019 at 08:58 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,766
Likes: 2,514
From: Buckeye, AZ
St. Jude Donor '12-'13
I used to quote the "myth" about whel bending/cracking from driving in Track- until I read Tadge's wheel Forum Post!
Decided to reprint part of the answer and put the point about Track in BOLD:
"....Wheel design is very complex and has to balance many attributes. Everyone wants beautiful wheels, but they also have to be stiff for good handling, strong to resist road damage and low weight. Un-sprung mass is the most important mass in the vehicle. You want light wheels because they enable the suspension to keep the wheel tracking the road surface and you want low rotating inertia because it affects how quickly the car can accelerate and brake. High mass wheels not only hurt handling, but they drive additional mass in the rest of the car. When you hit a pothole, high mass wheels generate higher loads into the suspension and body. As wheels get wider to accommodate wider tires, all these challenges are increased. For these reasons we spend a huge amount of engineering resources on optimizing wheels. We design wheels to withstand extreme pothole loads and test them on high speed laboratory equipment that can simulate the entire life-cycle of the vehicle. I have heard from some people that there is a theory that running the car in sport or track can contribute to damaging a wheel. That is not true.
People are often surprised that a wheel can be bent or cracked without any visible damage to the tire or obvious scratches on the wheel. Our tires have very stiff sidewalls for great handling and the ability to drive the car with no tire pressure whatsoever. As a result they can transfer loads to the wheel without being damaged themselves. A frequent sequence of events is that a wheel gets bent by a road hazard but the damage is initially almost undetectable to the driver. Maybe the driver notices a little more vibration, but many times not if the wheel is only slightly out-of-round (just a millimeter or two). A wheel that is not perfectly round puts stress in the rim that varies with every wheel rotation."
SIDEBAR:
HERE ARE SOME OTHER PARTS OF HIS POST SINCE WHEEL BENDING IS SUCH A CURRNT TOPIC:
"Thank you for the question, Jedi-Jurist. And I hope you are enjoying your Grand Sport! Your question raises a number of issues which I will try to address. I would like to start with your comment about “Chinese wheels”. No Grand Sport wheels come from China. In fact, the majority of our wide Corvette wheels (those most susceptible to bending) are produced by a company named Ronal which is based in Switzerland and manufactures wheels here in North America. A couple of our low-volume Z06 wheels do come from China, but regardless of where they are made, all Corvette wheels are built and tested to GM and Corvette specific standards.
"The question postulates a “rash” of wheel failures. Our field data does not suggest a recent significant increase in the wheel damage rate on our cars. There may be more reports of damage than historically, but, between the Z06 and Grand Sport, we are selling lots more wide-wheel cars than we ever have before. More cars on the road means more chance of hitting something in the road.
We do keep a keen eye on what our customers are experiencing in the field. I don’t know where you live, but the roads here in Michigan seem to be getting worse every year. I can promise you we will continuously improve our designs and validation procedures based how the world is changing."
I know some don't accept his explanation but so far I have 2 years on my Grand Sport Machined Faced Aluminum Wheels that say made in Mexico and have the Speedline name (a Ronal brand.)
Once the Grand Sport was introduced over half of the ~30,000 Vettes sold each year have wide wheels! That probably accounts for GM's statistics.
Decided to reprint part of the answer and put the point about Track in BOLD:
"....Wheel design is very complex and has to balance many attributes. Everyone wants beautiful wheels, but they also have to be stiff for good handling, strong to resist road damage and low weight. Un-sprung mass is the most important mass in the vehicle. You want light wheels because they enable the suspension to keep the wheel tracking the road surface and you want low rotating inertia because it affects how quickly the car can accelerate and brake. High mass wheels not only hurt handling, but they drive additional mass in the rest of the car. When you hit a pothole, high mass wheels generate higher loads into the suspension and body. As wheels get wider to accommodate wider tires, all these challenges are increased. For these reasons we spend a huge amount of engineering resources on optimizing wheels. We design wheels to withstand extreme pothole loads and test them on high speed laboratory equipment that can simulate the entire life-cycle of the vehicle. I have heard from some people that there is a theory that running the car in sport or track can contribute to damaging a wheel. That is not true.
People are often surprised that a wheel can be bent or cracked without any visible damage to the tire or obvious scratches on the wheel. Our tires have very stiff sidewalls for great handling and the ability to drive the car with no tire pressure whatsoever. As a result they can transfer loads to the wheel without being damaged themselves. A frequent sequence of events is that a wheel gets bent by a road hazard but the damage is initially almost undetectable to the driver. Maybe the driver notices a little more vibration, but many times not if the wheel is only slightly out-of-round (just a millimeter or two). A wheel that is not perfectly round puts stress in the rim that varies with every wheel rotation."
SIDEBAR:
HERE ARE SOME OTHER PARTS OF HIS POST SINCE WHEEL BENDING IS SUCH A CURRNT TOPIC:
"Thank you for the question, Jedi-Jurist. And I hope you are enjoying your Grand Sport! Your question raises a number of issues which I will try to address. I would like to start with your comment about “Chinese wheels”. No Grand Sport wheels come from China. In fact, the majority of our wide Corvette wheels (those most susceptible to bending) are produced by a company named Ronal which is based in Switzerland and manufactures wheels here in North America. A couple of our low-volume Z06 wheels do come from China, but regardless of where they are made, all Corvette wheels are built and tested to GM and Corvette specific standards.
"The question postulates a “rash” of wheel failures. Our field data does not suggest a recent significant increase in the wheel damage rate on our cars. There may be more reports of damage than historically, but, between the Z06 and Grand Sport, we are selling lots more wide-wheel cars than we ever have before. More cars on the road means more chance of hitting something in the road.
We do keep a keen eye on what our customers are experiencing in the field. I don’t know where you live, but the roads here in Michigan seem to be getting worse every year. I can promise you we will continuously improve our designs and validation procedures based how the world is changing."
I know some don't accept his explanation but so far I have 2 years on my Grand Sport Machined Faced Aluminum Wheels that say made in Mexico and have the Speedline name (a Ronal brand.)
Once the Grand Sport was introduced over half of the ~30,000 Vettes sold each year have wide wheels! That probably accounts for GM's statistics.
Beyond that, I will say they reiterated at Ron Fellows that you should never us Track mode on the street; it is only for use on a prepared track and will most likely crack wheels or damage other suspension components.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 270
Likes: 33
From: South DFW
I wouldn’t say you can’t use track mode on the street however if you daily drive your corvette, drive through construction zones with added stresses will be put onto the suspension and wear faster than normal. It’s all relative to what driver experience you want and are willing to risk. I feel this is just common sense when selecting a drivers suspension mode. I typically leave mine in sport and on good roads I’m familiar with I use track for some extra smiles.
Moderator
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 15,287
Likes: 4,213
From: Northern Illinois
2023 Corvette of the Year Winner - Modified
2022 C7 of the Year Winner - Modified
St. Jude Donor '18 thru '25
There are a few tracks that they don't recommend using track mode on with the Z07 package.. yes it's a real thing... they get pretty stiff
Racer
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 251
Likes: 83
From: So Cal
Putting the wheel issue aside: It's called Track mode for a reason. What sort of 'street' driving would require the car to be in track mode? I think GM has engineered the system to work as titled. Tour mode for just touring around as in everyday driving, Sport mode for a sportier drive, and track mode for the track. I think just common sense mechanical reasoning would tell one that track mode would be harder on the car's suspension, and there's very rarely any 'street' situation where track mode is 'needed'. Having said all that my car does corner like a race car in track mode!
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Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,303
Likes: 2,055
From: Margate, FL
that track is brutal - the first time I drove there I thought I was going to break my wrist.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,067
Likes: 12,429
From: NE South Carolina
I wouldn’t say you can’t use track mode on the street however if you daily drive your corvette, drive through construction zones with added stresses will be put onto the suspension and wear faster than normal. It’s all relative to what driver experience you want and are willing to risk. I feel this is just common sense when selecting a drivers suspension mode. I typically leave mine in sport and on good roads I’m familiar with I use track for some extra smiles.
My C6 Z51 and my 2014 Z51 did not have MRC. Felt there was no need on the relatively good roads in Eastern SC. Had variable 3 step shock control on my '93 Vette (yep, know it was NOT MRC) but I would set it to stiff on my favorite 270 degree exit ramp. If I forgot to set it back could not tell much difference in ride.
When I got my Grand Sport, found I had to drive in Touring mode to get about the same ride as my non MRC 2014 Z51. When set at Track I validated what one person said, "Could feel if you go over a dime!"
Even on the twisty narrow 2 mile road from the highway to my home it was too rough. No pot holes, just spots where tree roots raise the pavement a bit.I've added HD shocks to a number of cars and sure enough they make the ride stiffer. That is what MRC does in Sport and Track. Now that I have the MRC software upgrade I drive in Sport for it's other benefits and the ride is like my none MRC Z51.
Only use Track, as you note, to put a "smile on my face" around the foundation near the end of my street and that 270 degree exit ramp when I do take the Vette on the interstate.
Last edited by JerryU; Jun 6, 2019 at 11:54 AM.