The first guy was more incorrect, but you're not doing too well arguing here, either.

How do you figure ACDelco Syn Blend is "very much like Mobil1"? Which M1 are you talking about? Do you have the sheets? Believe me, we've pulled them. They're quite a bit different, but thanks for playing.

I'm glad you're a chemist - that's our entire company's application, and we have a lab full of people for that (along with outside labs like TestOil, etc, who run tests all day long for us).

Yes, there are vast differences in physical and chemical results between the factory fill ACDelco syn blend and M1 Extended 5W-30s.

Don't blame my reading comprehension for a thinly-masked attempt at covering up your misinformation.

I swear, there are more and more people hopping on to the argument wagon looking to stir up a fight when literally 4 or 5 people here even have a handle on oil production, engineering, and testing...

Please, leave it to the professionals here (and I'm not including myself in that group, though I do have over a decade of applied knowledge of our specific industry) to debate the actual facts.

 

I have attended the Honda Indy Gran Prix at BMS twice and am on their ticket mail list. A great event. Same cars and drivers that run the Indy 500! Last Dec I got an invite to drive "my ride" during trials behind the pace car on Wednesday Apr 23. I signed up. Next, "Vettes for Vets", a charitable event, invites Vette owners to drive Talladega 5 laps for $60. I signed up for 2 runs. The field is limited but may still be open?
TX for your reply.

 

That's seriously awesome, and reasonably priced especially for charity. Wish I was closer to a real track to really stretch this one's legs.

 

Mobil 1, 5w30, "gold band", formulated for higher temperature than the other three Mobil 1 products all Dexos certified is what I intend to use for 10-12 laps at Talladega. This would be in place of the 20w50 Dexos Mobil 1 Product recommended for track events. My 10-12 laps will be broken into to runs. Since Mobil 1 "gold band" Dexos is formulated specifically for high temperatures do you think it will surfice in place of Mobil 1 20w50 in this limited stress track event? Max speed 150 after getting comfortable at the track.
TX Sam
PS. I will monitor oil temp. What temp is too high? I can back off at any time.

 

I'd defer to some of the other experts here on answering that. For short periods, I can't see M1 Ext (Gold-band) being an issue whatsoever, but there's a reason they've indicated 15W-50 for use under track conditions.

Without knowing why they came to that decision, it's really hard to give you an answer (other than to do what you're comfortable with). For anecdotal evidence, I've run 0W-40 Castrol EU for dozens of track days in BMW engines, and 5W-30 M1 or Amsoil on LSx platforms for track events without any issues.

In my limited opinion, I don't think you'll see an issue running that for a short period, especially with the higher volume of oil and the dedicated cooler. You're also not in a full race condition - merely running at high speeds for a limited time (which really comes down to RPM load more than anything). Those high speeds may serve to give you enhanced cooling through the ducts, as well. Just my opinion, though.

 

Cool. I'm going to look into the Vettes for Vets especially.,, I am a vet myself. Thanks for supporting those that supported our country!

 

Ahhhhh... Okay... Maybe you need a hug... I do not know, but I sure hope you can find something fun in life other than tossing stones that are totally weird. Guess who was the first chemist in the world to test Mobil1 in Mil Spec sequence tests. I do know a bit about this field thank you very much. Now, feel free to toss some more stones if it makes you feel better, but instead... maybe just get a teddy bear and hug it before you go to bed. Wow!

 

Nope, just refuting your claims and showing you were incorrect. I'm not getting some weird satisfaction out of this. We're all here to help one another (at least in the Tech section). In this case, the comments were just incorrect.

If you were, indeed, referring to yourself as being the "first chemist in the world to test Mobil1 in Mil Spec sequence tests", then I applaud you (if that's something you're proud of). However, unless you were the first to test Mobil1 against ACDelco Synth Blend from BG (and you weren't, because our guys were ), you were factually incorrect.

Anyway, I'm over it - it's silly that people cover up arguments by saying things like "you must need a hug". No, I'd rather just stick to facts here.

I will give my little boy a hug tonight, though, and hope that he will grow up to be a better person than either you or myself.

Wow, indeed, sir.

 

Thanks, reply appreciated. The concern, as I read, is that as speed and temp increase there is the likely hood of burning/consuming low viscosity oil to the point of engine damage. Certainly likely under competitive full race conditions. Easily avoided with what I have planned. If temp spikes I will back off plus the Mobil 1 gold band Dexos 5w30 claims higher temp tolerance than the other 3 Mobil 1 Dexos cert oils. Watching speed and temp closely will be the key. Thanks again for your reply! Re your Q concerning why GM recommends (it's actually 20w50 Dexos) certified ... I believe they feel that it IS absolutely necessary to be safe under full race conditions. It also must be drained immediately upon return to normal driving. Understood, 20w50 is way to viscous.

 

Some people get their kicks by trying one-up-mans-ship on e-strings thinking they look good to themselves. I do not play those games. Good by and thank you for your such kind words expressing your opinions that are basically wrong.

 

use 9.8 not 10.3!

 

Gah... I don't think I need to defend the long string of posts, Ken. My point was solid, and I was attacked first. Anybody that argues a valid point with "go hug a teddy bear" can kiss my ***. I'm sure you didn't take the time to read the string, but instead picked exactly what you wanted to see and went from there.

You or Nick are more than welcome to talk to Jim or the mods if you'd like me disciplined. Have at it.

You're really getting on my nerves - it wouldn't be so bad if you contributed to threads here, but you don't. You're way out of line in this thread, as long as we're talking about rules. Had you not said anything, we would have parted ways and been done, but you can't help but be inflammatory.

Go find a hobby and leave me alone before you really **** me off. Nice golf cart, by the way. Keep this up, and there's going to be plenty of evidence that you're a pox on the community in every sense of the word. Contribute something for once or GTFO. Stop being an Internet tough guy. Nobody's impressed.

Edit: I'd also like to point out that not only one but two different PMs came from members privately supporting my fully justified argument against the incorrect data. I don't go running around looking for fights - actually quite the opposite. You'll find that I have a lot of good relationships here with vendors (Nick/Steve/Phil, Doug/Alex, Ron/David, and on and on), many members, etc. that extends past the forum. I don't really have to defend that.

Some people just take it personally when you correctly argue a point. Once it gets into a personal realm, I'm not going to let it go - I will go for the throat every time. No sugar coating that. The difference being that Nick and I, regardless of the nastiness involved, can at least walk away like adults and not keep going at one another. Ken, on the other hand, loves to hamstring people when they least expect it. Very grown-up of you, since you mentioned that first.

...

 

Coming off of that, is there really anything more constructive that can come out of this thread? It's amazing how many nasty fights have started in such a simple thread.

It's oil for crying out loud. We've heard every single argument we could possibly have, both with fluid and filters.

 

This is the kind of post that makes forums distasteful for many. Do we need these kinds of posts? Title of the thread is about oil as I recall.

 

Exactly, I sincerely detest such unnecessary diversions. I admit that Nick and I had a distasteful exchange relating to the actual thread topic, but we can't all be friends here, and I hold no animosity towards him (sincerely).

I really have no clue why people like Ken just stir the pot. You have two options in those cases - leave it alone and look like a fool, or respond and look like (arguably) an even bigger fool. It's a giant Catch-22.

I apologize for disrupting the thread with that post, but I would assert that it was certainly not unwarranted.

I do stand by the assertion that this thread has run its course, though, unless anyone has anything else constructive to add. I think many of us are moving on to talking about our supercharger installs, and getting our garage queens back on the road for spring.

 

Guys,

There is absolutely no reason for name-calling here. If we cannot discuss things without things getting personal or name calling, this thread will be closed and vacations will be handed out.


Again, please stay on topic and no personal jabs.



Thanks.

 

Thank you.

 

I'm not familiar with "Gold Band" Mobil 1 5w30, at least by that name, so can't comment on it specifically. But, in general, it is not the oil burning/consuming that I would be worried about (or that I am worried about) at the track particularly over your short 10-12 lap sessions, it is loss of viscosity.

As fluids heat up, they lose viscosity. The spec for a 30 grade oil is to have a viscosity of 9.3-12.49 cSt at 212F (100C). That is a pretty wide band. At high temp high shear (as might be seen in your bearings with hot oil at the track), a 30 grade is required to have HTHS viscosity > 2.9 cSt at 300F (150C). That is about a 70% loss of viscosity from 212F to 300F! This is why higher viscosity oil's are frequently used at the track. A 50 grade is required to have a viscosity of 16.3-21.89 cSt at 212F, and an HTHS of > 3.7 cSt at 300F. So at some point between 212F and 300F a 50 grade drops from ~ 19 cSt to ~ 4 cSt crossing through the ~ 10 cSt that a 30 grade has a 212F. Call that point 280F for discussion purposes. Take away is that a 50 grade at ~280F will have the same viscosity as a 30 grade at 212F. Hot oil temp is what I key on in determining what viscosity to use at the track.

As the viscosity drops, the fluid film strength drops and secondary wear protection (e.g. additives) become more important. Current API SN/dexos1 specs limit phosphorous, which along with zinc in a compound called ZDDP, or or zinc dialkyl dithio phosphate, forms an oil's primary anti-wear additive. Unfortunately, phosphorus slowly poisons the cats and prevents the catalytic exchange that allows them to function properly. To ensure auto companies could meet the EPA's 100k+ emissions requirements, the API has slowly been dropping the limit on phosphorus.

From 94-97, the API SH spec allowed up to 1200 ppm phosphorus. In 97, API SJ dropped the limit to 1000 ppm. In 04, API SM further dropped the limit to 800 ppm, but for the first time set a floor at 600 ppm and advertised that oil's were better. Essentially they were capping how much phosphorus the better oils could have and mandating the lowest amount the cheapest oils must have. The current API SN spec still has the band 600-800 ppm phosphorus. My AMSOIL Dominator 10w30 racing oil has 1575 ppm zinc, 1474 ppm phosphorus.

I don't know if "Gold Band" Mobil 1 complies with the 800 ppm limit or not. Personally would never use an oil at the track that didn't have more ZDDP than 800 ppm.

Given the drop in viscosity as oil heats up and the impact of fluid film strength, my own personal thumb rules are something like 30 grade < 260F, 40 grade ~260F - 280F, 50 grade >280F. These are only thumb rules. In my car at the track I typically see 245-255F which is right at the top of where I feel comfortable with the racing 10w30 I use - noting that the racing 10w30 I use has a viscosity near the upper band of a 30 grade; 11.4 cSt at 212F, 3.6 cSt at 300F. Mobil 1 5w30 is 11.0 and 3.1 for comparison (with 800 ppm phosphorus, 900 ppm zinc).

So depending on what your oil temp gets to in your 10-12 laps, the 5w30 you are using may or may not be okay.

Have fun!

 

Just to add to the above (which is a great read, by the way), here's a breakdown on Mobil 1:

1) The factory recommendation for racing purposes, Mobil 1 15W-50, contains 1200-1300ppm ZDDP.

2) The base-level Mobil 1 5W-30 contains 800-900ppm ZDDP. (thanks C66)

3) The Extended Peformance (Gold Band) Mobil 1 5W-30 contains 800-900ppm ZDDP.

4) Lastly, Mobil 1 Racing 0W-30 and 0W-50 contain 1750-1850ppm ZDDP.

Mobil 1 Product Spec Sheet (PDF): http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...duct_Guide.pdf

Additional citation from Mobil: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._Products.aspx

 

800 ppm phosphorus, 900 ppm zinc for Mobil 1 5w30. 650-750 are their Advance Fuel Economy blends (0w20, 0w30).