*WARNING* to ALL BOOSTED C7s
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,615
Likes: 60
From: Haymarket Virginia
This issue has nothing to do with kits and everything to do with GM OEM parts failure, period. This will happen on N/A stock cars as well, given that GM is already replacing seals, balancers, etc. under warranty. I'd also love to see a picture of your supercharged C7, by the way! 
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Notice I didn't say the check valves specifically, I said "GM OEM parts failure".
For regional to authorize engine work like this, it's an internal/OEM failure. They're very quick to deny any warranty work or parts replacement needed due to modification.
For regional to authorize engine work like this, it's an internal/OEM failure. They're very quick to deny any warranty work or parts replacement needed due to modification.
Instructor
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 121
Likes: 0
Just an added note to this thread.
To date no BETA cars, or Customer cars with ProCharger C7 systems have had any leaking front or rear main seals. Hundreds of boosted Dyno pulls on various cars (Auto, Sticks, Wet Sump, Dry Sump, Etc), LOTS of boosted street miles, all leak free.
Our PCV set up vents to the inlet just before the blower, and has been since day one.
We have (2) large 5/8” hoses from each valve cover to the inlet on the wet sump cars.
Dry sump cars have (1) 5/8” hose and (1) 3/8” hose.
The PCV system on these cars is very straight forward.
Just thought that might ease some concerns.
ATI ProCharger
To date no BETA cars, or Customer cars with ProCharger C7 systems have had any leaking front or rear main seals. Hundreds of boosted Dyno pulls on various cars (Auto, Sticks, Wet Sump, Dry Sump, Etc), LOTS of boosted street miles, all leak free.
Our PCV set up vents to the inlet just before the blower, and has been since day one.
We have (2) large 5/8” hoses from each valve cover to the inlet on the wet sump cars.
Dry sump cars have (1) 5/8” hose and (1) 3/8” hose.
The PCV system on these cars is very straight forward.
Just thought that might ease some concerns.
ATI ProCharger
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,615
Likes: 60
From: Haymarket Virginia
So are you assuming it's the seals going bad? Good thing I don't have a Auto!
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Milton ON
Interesting, remember the animation video of the LT1 being assembled?
Imagine my surprise when I was watching it just now to see the crank seal only to find out it gets skipped! (1:16)
There's the problem!!!! LOL
Imagine my surprise when I was watching it just now to see the crank seal only to find out it gets skipped! (1:16)
There's the problem!!!! LOL
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
External stresses and influences are heavily policed for internal engine warranty repairs. For them to start spending money and acknowledging a problem, that leaves the deduction above.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
From: Milton ON
Have any of the shops put a manometer on the engine to monitor crankcase vacuum and pressure while running the engine?
Seems to me the first step is figuring out when the pressure spike hits and how high it goes.
Once you see the spike it might be easier to figure out what happened at that event.
Perhaps this is related to how the auto shifts and the load on the engine.
Perhaps a double downshift and rpm's jumping wildly making the boost pressure suddenly exceed the normal pressure when under load?
A centrifugal super charger is nothing more than a fan and follows a fan curve. Change the engine RPM's from 2000 to 5000 by matting the accelerator and that fan speeds up quickly to move air. Take your foot of the accelerator quickly again and it over delivers air for a short period and the engine can't take it. The pressure in the crankcase might spike as a result.
This type of scenario does not normally happen in a standard tranny but is common in an auto.
Seems to me the first step is figuring out when the pressure spike hits and how high it goes.
Once you see the spike it might be easier to figure out what happened at that event.
Perhaps this is related to how the auto shifts and the load on the engine.
Perhaps a double downshift and rpm's jumping wildly making the boost pressure suddenly exceed the normal pressure when under load?
A centrifugal super charger is nothing more than a fan and follows a fan curve. Change the engine RPM's from 2000 to 5000 by matting the accelerator and that fan speeds up quickly to move air. Take your foot of the accelerator quickly again and it over delivers air for a short period and the engine can't take it. The pressure in the crankcase might spike as a result.
This type of scenario does not normally happen in a standard tranny but is common in an auto.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 17
From: Bradenton Florida
St. Jude Donor '13
Still in the testing stages, but looks like a collaboration between a few of our good colleagues ETMC, Slowhawk, ECS we all may be onto something here. ETMC is doing some testing this afternoon on their car, as we are also.
And NO this fix does not require any additional breather tank. As ETMC & us finalize the testing, I am sure Doug ECS will chime in on behalf of ECS. Very minor stuff, but just enough to make the difference, does not change how the car drives at all and is perfectly safe for longevity!
And NO this fix does not require any additional breather tank. As ETMC & us finalize the testing, I am sure Doug ECS will chime in on behalf of ECS. Very minor stuff, but just enough to make the difference, does not change how the car drives at all and is perfectly safe for longevity!
Last edited by Matt @ FSP; Apr 7, 2014 at 03:10 PM.
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Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 17
From: Bradenton Florida
St. Jude Donor '13
I am unfamiliar with the LMR tank.. Looks awesome, and judging by Steve/Reid and the guys I am sure it works well... Theta can you do all of us a favor and inform us of how the LMR tank integrates with the intake manifold and valley port fittings, specifically behind the TB.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Sorry, I wasn't stirring the pot - I was genuinely interested. 
Since I have the ECS kit, that line you're referring to uses the ECS T-line that runs to the BOV. It's a piece of hard tubing with EDPM hose ends secured to both barbs via clamps.
I'm not sure how it would integrate on a N/A car, though.
Since I have the ECS kit, that line you're referring to uses the ECS T-line that runs to the BOV. It's a piece of hard tubing with EDPM hose ends secured to both barbs via clamps.
I'm not sure how it would integrate on a N/A car, though.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 204
Likes: 10
Still in the testing stages, but looks like a collaboration between a few of our good colleagues ETMC, Slowhawk, ECS we all may be onto something here. ETMC is doing some testing this afternoon on their car, as we are also.
And NO this fix does not require any additional breather tank. As ETMC & us finalize the testing, I am sure Doug ECS will chime in on behalf of ECS. Very minor stuff, but just enough to make the difference, does not change how the car drives at all and is perfectly safe for longevity!
And NO this fix does not require any additional breather tank. As ETMC & us finalize the testing, I am sure Doug ECS will chime in on behalf of ECS. Very minor stuff, but just enough to make the difference, does not change how the car drives at all and is perfectly safe for longevity!
Any chance of one of the existing vendors selling the supplies and info necessary for a Pfadt-boosted orphan to update that setup as well?
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 17
From: Bradenton Florida
St. Jude Donor '13
Sorry, I wasn't stirring the pot - I was genuinely interested.
Since I have the ECS kit, that line you're referring to uses the ECS T-line that runs to the BOV. It's a piece of hard tubing with EDPM hose ends secured to both barbs via clamps.
I'm not sure how it would integrate on a N/A car, though.
Since I have the ECS kit, that line you're referring to uses the ECS T-line that runs to the BOV. It's a piece of hard tubing with EDPM hose ends secured to both barbs via clamps.
I'm not sure how it would integrate on a N/A car, though.
Yes, let me just say in testing that hose is a bit different now. I was unsure if the LMR tank integrated within the stock check valve /valley port and/or the manifold. So basically you are "STOCK" ECS u-shaped hose w/ the vac nipples.. ETMC and FSP have changed that around a bit, I do not want to say exactly what yet because we are still testing. We have 7 complete successful dyno pulls all the way up so far, and about 50 street miles so I cannot call this a success yet.
Tech Contributor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,761
Likes: 240
From: Saint Louis MO
St. Jude Donor '14-'15
Oh I know you are not stirring the pot bud.. I admire what you did for the DIY instructions actually and you seem to know the car well... This is a collaboration of information from long-standing tuner shops, however, none of us are afraid of taking information in since this is all new to us. The shop that does not keep their ears or mouths open are the ones that will have issues as the ones that work with each other will solve issues (Generalization, not talking specifically about this issue).
Yes, let me just say in testing that hose is a bit different now. I was unsure if the LMR tank integrated within the stock check valve /valley port and/or the manifold. So basically you are "STOCK" ECS u-shaped hose w/ the vac nipples.. ETMC and FSP have changed that around a bit, I do not want to say exactly what yet because we are still testing. We have 7 complete successful dyno pulls all the way up so far, and about 50 street miles so I cannot call this a success yet.
Yes, let me just say in testing that hose is a bit different now. I was unsure if the LMR tank integrated within the stock check valve /valley port and/or the manifold. So basically you are "STOCK" ECS u-shaped hose w/ the vac nipples.. ETMC and FSP have changed that around a bit, I do not want to say exactly what yet because we are still testing. We have 7 complete successful dyno pulls all the way up so far, and about 50 street miles so I cannot call this a success yet.
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 17
From: Bradenton Florida
St. Jude Donor '13
Once again, I am not trying to be covert about this but don't want to give information that is not verified.. It would be a simple fix for any systems to be retro-fitted with a few dollars at the local auto parts store, IF THIS WORKS
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,665
Likes: 17
From: Bradenton Florida
St. Jude Donor '13
Yep vacuum for BOV or other accessories (Boost gauge, etc.) still will work perfectly fine.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 204
Likes: 10
Makes sense. I for one am happy to wait for a verified solution!
Former Vendor
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,095
Likes: 70
HOW THE PROCHARGER SYSTEM IS SET UP:
We have seen at least 3 questions about this in the last couple days.
And here is how ours is set up, and now with hundreds and hundreds of miles, without any issues, and has been working good since day one. (Back since late fall of last year)
Dry Sump Cars
Dry Sump Tank (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Right Valve Cover (Vented to Drysump tank)
Left Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Valley Cover (Capped off)
Wet Sump Cars
Right Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Left Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Valley Cover (Capped off)
No check valves were retained due to possible issues with them sticking. (We had seen it before, didn't want it to happen) Nipple off throttle body that was going to valley, is now used for our vacuum log manifold for attaching vacuum points such as bypass valve, boost gauge, dyno logging equipment, etc.
As stated before, customers are more then welcome to change our set up how they want, and can add whatever means of breathers, or catch cans, however we just wanted to share that we haven't see any issues thus far. With absolutely no rear/front main seal leaking issues, etc. We may look into doing a catch can / oil separator in the future for those that want one, but so far haven't had a reason to have one, other just to satisfy the customers wants.
We have seen at least 3 questions about this in the last couple days.
And here is how ours is set up, and now with hundreds and hundreds of miles, without any issues, and has been working good since day one. (Back since late fall of last year)
Dry Sump Cars
Dry Sump Tank (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Right Valve Cover (Vented to Drysump tank)
Left Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Valley Cover (Capped off)
Wet Sump Cars
Right Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Left Valve Cover (Vented to Blower Inlet)
Valley Cover (Capped off)
No check valves were retained due to possible issues with them sticking. (We had seen it before, didn't want it to happen) Nipple off throttle body that was going to valley, is now used for our vacuum log manifold for attaching vacuum points such as bypass valve, boost gauge, dyno logging equipment, etc.
As stated before, customers are more then welcome to change our set up how they want, and can add whatever means of breathers, or catch cans, however we just wanted to share that we haven't see any issues thus far. With absolutely no rear/front main seal leaking issues, etc. We may look into doing a catch can / oil separator in the future for those that want one, but so far haven't had a reason to have one, other just to satisfy the customers wants.