Automatic C7 Trans Overheating on track
Racer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 353
Likes: 25
From: san jose ca
I've been off the forum for some time during the negotiation with GM to resolve the overheating problem that I started this thread to address. GM's bottom line answer: "The automatic is not intended to be track capable beyond one "press lap" then a cool-down. My attorney's request: "Please provide any published, dated company material that proves GM adequately informed the buying public of this issue prior to their buying decision." GM's answer: An offer of 3 buyback options. I chose an MSRP to MSRP swap (with a 12K mile limit) on a 2015 manual trans car after asking this question regarding the 2015 A8: " Will the 2015 A8 be better cooled?" GM's answer: " Better stick with the manual."
I received my 2015 manual last weekend and won't be tracking it prior to 1500 miles and an oil change.
While waiting, I took a three day school at Spring Mtn Motorsports in a 2014 manual. During 27 min open lapping on day three running the same as I previously did in the automatic which got to 260° in 12 minutes (up against tire grip) the manual never got above 200° and was not climbing. Ambient 80° sunny.
OK, so I didn't want to go back to a manual with auto racing all going to clutch autos, but thought that was the best option if I wanted to get back on track and actually finish the sessions. After all, the C7 IS a sweet handling Vette! We all agree on that!
GM was actually pretty decent about the swap and did not drag out the process long enough to make me engage a lawyer for anything but advice. That saved me a lot of upfront lawyer money and time, although I was willing to go the distance if necessary. Their treatment of this goes a long way toward my somewhat forgiving the gross engineering/finance/ production breakdown resulting in such a bonehead thing as not providing any where near enough BTU loss for the trans fluid.
Anyone else in the same situation: get to the Chevy district after-sales manager for your area and present your case. Don't bother with any other route. I tried them and wasted a month and a half. No threats. Just ask GM to present you with provable published material that was available to you prior to your buying decision that told you the car would not be track capable. That is what an attorney will need if GM does not come around --although GM knows it is a LOT cheaper to put you in a new car first (their cost: about $30K) rather than going to court and putting you in a new car later as well as having to pay damages (attorney, court costs + your time and "sufferage."): about $350-400K. Yes, you'd make about a hundred grand after about 2 years of legal wrangling, but is that the point? -- or do you just want a car that works like you thought you were getting in the first place? I didn't want to stick their face in it. I just wanted to get on track again.
Good luck.
I received my 2015 manual last weekend and won't be tracking it prior to 1500 miles and an oil change.
While waiting, I took a three day school at Spring Mtn Motorsports in a 2014 manual. During 27 min open lapping on day three running the same as I previously did in the automatic which got to 260° in 12 minutes (up against tire grip) the manual never got above 200° and was not climbing. Ambient 80° sunny.
OK, so I didn't want to go back to a manual with auto racing all going to clutch autos, but thought that was the best option if I wanted to get back on track and actually finish the sessions. After all, the C7 IS a sweet handling Vette! We all agree on that!
GM was actually pretty decent about the swap and did not drag out the process long enough to make me engage a lawyer for anything but advice. That saved me a lot of upfront lawyer money and time, although I was willing to go the distance if necessary. Their treatment of this goes a long way toward my somewhat forgiving the gross engineering/finance/ production breakdown resulting in such a bonehead thing as not providing any where near enough BTU loss for the trans fluid.
Anyone else in the same situation: get to the Chevy district after-sales manager for your area and present your case. Don't bother with any other route. I tried them and wasted a month and a half. No threats. Just ask GM to present you with provable published material that was available to you prior to your buying decision that told you the car would not be track capable. That is what an attorney will need if GM does not come around --although GM knows it is a LOT cheaper to put you in a new car first (their cost: about $30K) rather than going to court and putting you in a new car later as well as having to pay damages (attorney, court costs + your time and "sufferage."): about $350-400K. Yes, you'd make about a hundred grand after about 2 years of legal wrangling, but is that the point? -- or do you just want a car that works like you thought you were getting in the first place? I didn't want to stick their face in it. I just wanted to get on track again.
Good luck.
Thats total BS !!!!!!!!!!!
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 136
Likes: 11
I'm sure there are lots of guys with '15 A8's out there with great knowledge about what it will and will not do on track. Just look for those threads.
I'm out having fun with my M7 - finishing sessions -- except for changing brake pads to PFC 08's and boiling my brake fluid because they work so darn good. Here comes the money part! :-)
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Austin Texas
I had the same issue with my transmission over heating after tracking the car. I got the warning DIC message informing me that transmission fluid is hot, idle engine. I got off the track and let the car cool down and did not track after that. My question to y'all is do I now need to change my transmission fluid? The transmission fluid temp was at almost 290. I was told that if the fluid gets that hot then i should change the fluid to avoid longer term issues with my transmission. Is that true?
Racer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 353
Likes: 25
From: san jose ca
I had the same issue with my transmission over heating after tracking the car. I got the warning DIC message informing me that transmission fluid is hot, idle engine. I got off the track and let the car cool down and did not track after that. My question to y'all is do I now need to change my transmission fluid? The transmission fluid temp was at almost 290. I was told that if the fluid gets that hot then i should change the fluid to avoid longer term issues with my transmission. Is that true?
A6 or A8 trans ?
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Austin Texas
Racer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 353
Likes: 25
From: san jose ca
You need this I believe !
http://weaponx-c7.myshopify.com/prod...and-thermostat
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Austin Texas
o. I believe thats missing the Oil cooler on non-z51 A8s ?
You need this I believe !
http://weaponx-c7.myshopify.com/prod...and-thermostat
You need this I believe !
http://weaponx-c7.myshopify.com/prod...and-thermostat
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 136
Likes: 11
How many miles on car? Did you change the trans fluid yet at all? If you did as a new car fluid change before tracking then I would not bother since you got off track when you got a DIC message and because you indicate you did not get the message until your last session. It must have been a cool day. The DIC is supposed to ocurr about 20° before it goes into limp mode and starts shifting for you even in manual shift mode. The DIC message is to prevent a problem, not indicate that you already ruined something. My car never threw a DIC. It just waited until the fluid was at 260° and went into limp. The trans fluid has higher headroom than 240°. And I especially would not bother replacing it if you're going to put a cooler on it. Put the biggest one you can find if you have a choice. I didn't look at that link above. Your fluid should be fine to do what you want assuming you changed it once already. Other wise do it. All new lubricated car parts lose microscopic metal parts getting "broken in." It's always good to do a 5,000 mile or less fluid change on any new car regardless of what the manufacturer says. This from my brother, a GM engineer who examines things like metal expansion/temperature curves, molecular metals analysis, blah blah blah.
Last edited by CeeSeven; Mar 30, 2015 at 07:58 PM.
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Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 44
Likes: 2
From: Austin Texas
How many miles on car? Did you change the trans fluid yet at all? If you did as a new car fluid change before tracking then I would not bother since you got off track when you got a DIC message and because you indicate you did not get the message until your last session. It must have been a cool day. The DIC is supposed to ocurr about 20° before it goes into limp mode and starts shifting for you even in manual shift mode. The DIC message is to prevent a problem, not indicate that you already ruined something. My car never threw a DIC. It just waited until the fluid was at 260° and went into limp. The trans fluid has higher headroom than 240°. And I especially would not bother replacing it if you're going to put a cooler on it. Put the biggest one you can find if you have a choice. I didn't look at that link above. Your fluid should be fine to do what you want assuming you changed it once already. Other wise do it. All new lubricated car parts lose microscopic metal parts getting "broken in." It's always good to do a 5,000 mile or less fluid change on any new car regardless of what the manufacturer says. This from my brother, a GM engineer who examines things like metal expansion/temperature curves, molecular metals analysis, blah blah blah.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 74
From: Never take a girl out for a cup of coffee, the last thing you want her to be is alert and focused. Tampa, FL
St. Jude Donor '05
I tracked my 2015 Z51 A8 today and I received the transmission overheat DIC message halfway through my second 20 minute session. It's ridiculous that I buy a sports car with the track package and the transmission can't handle the track. Has anyone found a solution for Z51 cars so I can actually use the car for its intended purpose?
Racer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 296
Likes: 8
From: Los Angeles Ca
I tracked my 2015 Z51 A8 today and I received the transmission overheat DIC message halfway through my second 20 minute session. It's ridiculous that I buy a sports car with the track package and the transmission can't handle the track. Has anyone found a solution for Z51 cars so I can actually use the car for its intended purpose?
I actually took my car to the Streets of Willow last weekend for a full day on the track. I ran four sessions at about 15-20 min each. I never had any temp issues at all. My oil temp never went above 220. I let my car sit about 90 min between each session. The track length is about 1.8 miles long. I averaged about 6-7 laps each time. Everything on my car is stock except the Z06 grill.
Is this overheating issue common with many auto Z51's? There was another Z51 there that day but I think his car was the M7. He seemed to be doing fine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 896
Likes: 38
From: Camarillo California
I own a '15 A8 Z51. It has about 2100 miles now.
I actually took my car to the Streets of Willow last weekend for a full day on the track. I ran four sessions at about 15-20 min each. I never had any temp issues at all. My oil temp never went above 220. I let my car sit about 90 min between each session. The track length is about 1.8 miles long. I averaged about 6-7 laps each time. Everything on my car is stock except the Z06 grill.
Is this overheating issue common with many auto Z51's? There was another Z51 there that day but I think his car was the M7. He seemed to be doing fine.
I actually took my car to the Streets of Willow last weekend for a full day on the track. I ran four sessions at about 15-20 min each. I never had any temp issues at all. My oil temp never went above 220. I let my car sit about 90 min between each session. The track length is about 1.8 miles long. I averaged about 6-7 laps each time. Everything on my car is stock except the Z06 grill.
Is this overheating issue common with many auto Z51's? There was another Z51 there that day but I think his car was the M7. He seemed to be doing fine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 74
From: Never take a girl out for a cup of coffee, the last thing you want her to be is alert and focused. Tampa, FL
St. Jude Donor '05
I own a '15 A8 Z51. It has about 2100 miles now.
I actually took my car to the Streets of Willow last weekend for a full day on the track. I ran four sessions at about 15-20 min each. I never had any temp issues at all. My oil temp never went above 220. I let my car sit about 90 min between each session. The track length is about 1.8 miles long. I averaged about 6-7 laps each time. Everything on my car is stock except the Z06 grill.
Is this overheating issue common with many auto Z51's? There was another Z51 there that day but I think his car was the M7. He seemed to be doing fine.
I actually took my car to the Streets of Willow last weekend for a full day on the track. I ran four sessions at about 15-20 min each. I never had any temp issues at all. My oil temp never went above 220. I let my car sit about 90 min between each session. The track length is about 1.8 miles long. I averaged about 6-7 laps each time. Everything on my car is stock except the Z06 grill.
Is this overheating issue common with many auto Z51's? There was another Z51 there that day but I think his car was the M7. He seemed to be doing fine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 74
From: Never take a girl out for a cup of coffee, the last thing you want her to be is alert and focused. Tampa, FL
St. Jude Donor '05
Thinking of installing another transmission cooler in series with the radiator. Does anyone with experience know how this will affect the warranty on the transmission?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bm...4/applications
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bm...4/applications
Racer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 296
Likes: 8
From: Los Angeles Ca
I ran it in track mode the entire time. Not sure what dry and sport 1 is?
Racer
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 296
Likes: 8
From: Los Angeles Ca
What times did you get? It was my first time on the track. I started the day with a 1.51 and ended with a 1.36. I know these cars can hit the high 1.20s.
Racer
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 332
Likes: 19
From: Villa Park ca
If you're running SOW with an A6 without a cooler and its not overheating it cuz you're still getting acclimated to the track.
SOW is a brake and shift intensive track.....so when you're working it....all temps get very high, especially brakes.
I have a GS A6 and would fry my transmission on lap 2 or 3 without a cooler(only cuz lap one is a warm up lap). I have a derale 9000 (11x11) cooler and temps stay under 210 for a full session....20-25mins. Temp is even less on big willow cuz its faster (more air) and less shifting.
I would run a bigger cooler if I could find one....volume is key. I don't know where the point would be that bigger screws up the volume or the pressure or the pump.....but bigger has worked better for me so far. What I really need is a water cooled trans.
I actually prefer the A6 to an M6 on the track. I allows me to keep both hands on the wheel, brake with my left foot, and concentrate more......the trick is keeping the trans cool. But I'm good for now until it blows.....and I've been beating on it for 3 years.
SOW is a brake and shift intensive track.....so when you're working it....all temps get very high, especially brakes.
I have a GS A6 and would fry my transmission on lap 2 or 3 without a cooler(only cuz lap one is a warm up lap). I have a derale 9000 (11x11) cooler and temps stay under 210 for a full session....20-25mins. Temp is even less on big willow cuz its faster (more air) and less shifting.
I would run a bigger cooler if I could find one....volume is key. I don't know where the point would be that bigger screws up the volume or the pressure or the pump.....but bigger has worked better for me so far. What I really need is a water cooled trans.
I actually prefer the A6 to an M6 on the track. I allows me to keep both hands on the wheel, brake with my left foot, and concentrate more......the trick is keeping the trans cool. But I'm good for now until it blows.....and I've been beating on it for 3 years.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 74
From: Never take a girl out for a cup of coffee, the last thing you want her to be is alert and focused. Tampa, FL
St. Jude Donor '05
If you hit the traction control button twice, it should put the car in performance traction management mode, then you can turn the **** to the right to switch between the modes: Wet, Dry, Sport 1-3, Race. This changes how/when traction control kicks in, how much power it gives you in the corners, etc. I was able to get a good amount of wheel spin in sport 1 and 2. Corners were severely limited if I was in normal Track mode because traction control would kick in immediately and limit engine power out of the turn.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 896
Likes: 38
From: Camarillo California
Yes. Still new at this. My best times were in the 1:20's. Not sure how that compares overall (but did push me into the top class that weekend). This summer will be a better test.