Braking failure at track today
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 745
Likes: 1
From: Anaheim Hills, Calif.
Wow, didn't know this thread was going to take off. I have my car back, tech said their may have been air in the lines or an air bubble in the caliper. I had the system flushed and new fluid put in. They did not find any codes, or evidence of brake fluid boiling.
My thinking is this, I bought a brand new 2001 Z51 corvette, and drove the snot out of it at willow springs for years, on a stock set up, never once had any braking issues. This was the first time taking my 2014 Z51 Corvette to Willow, and I expected it to stand up to a day of tracking on street tires in stock form. Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
I plan on replacing this car in a few years for a Z06. To be honest I will be much more restrained next time I am on a race track.
My thinking is this, I bought a brand new 2001 Z51 corvette, and drove the snot out of it at willow springs for years, on a stock set up, never once had any braking issues. This was the first time taking my 2014 Z51 Corvette to Willow, and I expected it to stand up to a day of tracking on street tires in stock form. Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
I plan on replacing this car in a few years for a Z06. To be honest I will be much more restrained next time I am on a race track.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 745
Likes: 1
From: Anaheim Hills, Calif.
Yes, went into limp mode for over heating in two sessions. Seems its an issue with the transmission. Again, this was one of the coolest days I have ever been at willows 68 degrees.
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 50,281
Likes: 518
From: Cleveland OH
St. Jude Donor '11,'13
Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech).
This two-piece rotor utilizes the Acura NSX rotor disc, and is 3mm thicker than S2000 OE disc. However is will still fit under OE caliper for a direct bolt-on installation w/o any modifications. Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech). Each pad must be 15.50mm or thinner in order for this rotor to fit, therefore it's your responsibility to check from your brake pad suppliers about the pad thickness before buying these rotors. Rotors are not returnable due to the fitment issue on thicker pads.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
what year was the C63? the older ones have torque converters still....sort of like the C7 A6....guess what, they overheat immediately, too. Guess what will still have a torque converter.....the A8!!! Hope they figured it out, otherwise, you better get a stick for the track.
Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 1,174
I confirmed this with them too... something about the material in RB rotors gets very hot (apparently it is very hard steel) and this causes some pads to leave deposits. What is interesting is that AP Racing actually seem to promote Carbotech pads (or at least they referenced their use) and we all know AP Racing make top notch brake products. It was too bad really because I had planned to buy the RB rotors but already had my full Carbotech pad set up and am VERY happy with it. I'll wait and put AP Racing rotors on the car when they are available.
Last edited by gthal; May 22, 2014 at 09:51 PM.
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Safety Car
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,875
Likes: 1,174
what year was the C63? the older ones have torque converters still....sort of like the C7 A6....guess what, they overheat immediately, too. Guess what will still have a torque converter.....the A8!!! Hope they figured it out, otherwise, you better get a stick for the track.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,885
Likes: 486
From: Cin City
St. Jude Donor '14
Racing Brakes already have them:
http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...ont-p/2365.htm
https://www.racingbrake.com/ProductD...oductCode=2366
http://www.racingbrake.com/Two-piece...ont-p/2365.htm
https://www.racingbrake.com/ProductD...oductCode=2366
Le Mans Master
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,937
Likes: 348
From: My interests are mobile
Wow, didn't know this thread was going to take off. I have my car back, tech said their may have been air in the lines or an air bubble in the caliper. I had the system flushed and new fluid put in. They did not find any codes, or evidence of brake fluid boiling.
My thinking is this, I bought a brand new 2001 Z51 corvette, and drove the snot out of it at willow springs for years, on a stock set up, never once had any braking issues. This was the first time taking my 2014 Z51 Corvette to Willow, and I expected it to stand up to a day of tracking on street tires in stock form. Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
I plan on replacing this car in a few years for a Z06. To be honest I will be much more restrained next time I am on a race track.
My thinking is this, I bought a brand new 2001 Z51 corvette, and drove the snot out of it at willow springs for years, on a stock set up, never once had any braking issues. This was the first time taking my 2014 Z51 Corvette to Willow, and I expected it to stand up to a day of tracking on street tires in stock form. Hopefully this is just an isolated incident.
I plan on replacing this car in a few years for a Z06. To be honest I will be much more restrained next time I am on a race track.
Does he left foot brake his amg?? If he does, I guarantee he clutched it...
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 107
Likes: 2
This.. I just took this of RB website.
Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech).
This two-piece rotor utilizes the Acura NSX rotor disc, and is 3mm thicker than S2000 OE disc. However is will still fit under OE caliper for a direct bolt-on installation w/o any modifications. Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech). Each pad must be 15.50mm or thinner in order for this rotor to fit, therefore it's your responsibility to check from your brake pad suppliers about the pad thickness before buying these rotors. Rotors are not returnable due to the fitment issue on thicker pads.
Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech).
This two-piece rotor utilizes the Acura NSX rotor disc, and is 3mm thicker than S2000 OE disc. However is will still fit under OE caliper for a direct bolt-on installation w/o any modifications. Since the rotor is 3mm thicker than stock, it will not work with any pads that are made thicker than OE pads (Known such as Carbotech). Each pad must be 15.50mm or thinner in order for this rotor to fit, therefore it's your responsibility to check from your brake pad suppliers about the pad thickness before buying these rotors. Rotors are not returnable due to the fitment issue on thicker pads.
obviously you need a thinner pad for this.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 107
Likes: 2
See this page on their website... http://www.racingbrake.com/v/main/pa...g.asp?full=yes
I confirmed this with them too... something about the material in RB rotors gets very hot (apparently it is very hard steel) and this causes some pads to leave deposits. What is interesting is that AP Racing actually seem to promote Carbotech pads (or at least they referenced their use) and we all know AP Racing make top notch brake products. It was too bad really because I had planned to buy the RB rotors but already had my full Carbotech pad set up and am VERY happy with it. I'll wait and put AP Racing rotors on the car when they are available.
I confirmed this with them too... something about the material in RB rotors gets very hot (apparently it is very hard steel) and this causes some pads to leave deposits. What is interesting is that AP Racing actually seem to promote Carbotech pads (or at least they referenced their use) and we all know AP Racing make top notch brake products. It was too bad really because I had planned to buy the RB rotors but already had my full Carbotech pad set up and am VERY happy with it. I'll wait and put AP Racing rotors on the car when they are available.
Somehow i've missed it.
As RB rotors+Carbotech pads user i will investigate this further
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,333
Likes: 32
From: USA
I'll try this again.
The driver said the following:
The brakes didn't go down.
Brakes didn't move 1/2".
Brakes were like pushing on cement.
Like the pedal hit a brick wall.
These statements all say the same thing and none is a sign of a brake fluid issue.
Classic case of overheated pads or pads that are outgassing.
And yes they can come back to working properly in a few minutes.
I have seen it personally many times. It is exactly like he described.
There might have been an abs/computer issue but I doubt it.
Driver then talks about the brake pedal while offroad. I wouldn't put any faith in what anyone says while on bumpy terrain. You just don't have a feel for the brakes at that point.
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
The driver said the following:
The brakes didn't go down.
Brakes didn't move 1/2".
Brakes were like pushing on cement.
Like the pedal hit a brick wall.
These statements all say the same thing and none is a sign of a brake fluid issue.
Classic case of overheated pads or pads that are outgassing.
And yes they can come back to working properly in a few minutes.
I have seen it personally many times. It is exactly like he described.
There might have been an abs/computer issue but I doubt it.
Driver then talks about the brake pedal while offroad. I wouldn't put any faith in what anyone says while on bumpy terrain. You just don't have a feel for the brakes at that point.
I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
Last edited by corvette dave; May 24, 2014 at 11:26 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 107
Likes: 2
i indeed had this situation few times - hitting brakes on a bump - the pedal is hard and no significant slowing down. a second pedal push after a moment - everything is fine.
since it's never happened after brakes heavy abuse - i always assumed that its because ABS got confused at the bump.
since it's never happened after brakes heavy abuse - i always assumed that its because ABS got confused at the bump.
Racer
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 338
Likes: 13
I started reading this and couldn't stop and now I have to make a couple of observations.
Turn 8 is not preceded by a hard braking zone and 95 miles an hour in a C7 is WELL below the speed at which the car can be driven through that turn. The unresponsive brake pedal is between the driver and the Corvette gods but even with the computers off the car should not have had problem driving through the turn.
I'm not sure we'll ever know what really happened but something doesn't make sense.
On the subject of AMG track failures, we had a new E63 at Big Willow a couple of years ago. Three sessions and the front rotors were hammered although the trans was fine. It always helps to learn how to turn off the computers before you track some cars since they can contribute to failure.
But, really, 95 in Turn 8 driving a C7? I'll have trouble with that for a while.
Turn 8 is not preceded by a hard braking zone and 95 miles an hour in a C7 is WELL below the speed at which the car can be driven through that turn. The unresponsive brake pedal is between the driver and the Corvette gods but even with the computers off the car should not have had problem driving through the turn.
I'm not sure we'll ever know what really happened but something doesn't make sense.
On the subject of AMG track failures, we had a new E63 at Big Willow a couple of years ago. Three sessions and the front rotors were hammered although the trans was fine. It always helps to learn how to turn off the computers before you track some cars since they can contribute to failure.
But, really, 95 in Turn 8 driving a C7? I'll have trouble with that for a while.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 17,992
Likes: 280
I started reading this and couldn't stop and now I have to make a couple of observations.
Turn 8 is not preceded by a hard braking zone and 95 miles an hour in a C7 is WELL below the speed at which the car can be driven through that turn. The unresponsive brake pedal is between the driver and the Corvette gods but even with the computers off the car should not have had problem driving through the turn.
I'm not sure we'll ever know what really happened but something doesn't make sense.
On the subject of AMG track failures, we had a new E63 at Big Willow a couple of years ago. Three sessions and the front rotors were hammered although the trans was fine. It always helps to learn how to turn off the computers before you track some cars since they can contribute to failure.
But, really, 95 in Turn 8 driving a C7? I'll have trouble with that for a while.
Turn 8 is not preceded by a hard braking zone and 95 miles an hour in a C7 is WELL below the speed at which the car can be driven through that turn. The unresponsive brake pedal is between the driver and the Corvette gods but even with the computers off the car should not have had problem driving through the turn.
I'm not sure we'll ever know what really happened but something doesn't make sense.
On the subject of AMG track failures, we had a new E63 at Big Willow a couple of years ago. Three sessions and the front rotors were hammered although the trans was fine. It always helps to learn how to turn off the computers before you track some cars since they can contribute to failure.
But, really, 95 in Turn 8 driving a C7? I'll have trouble with that for a while.
Pro
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 693
Likes: 2
From: Los Angeles CA
maybe the check valve for the booster somehow got stuck shut temporarily for couple brake applications.
but that sounds near impossible since i've easily blown air through them with my mouth so unless there is some mold defect for it to get stuck shut once somehow, lol.
maybe the seal in the pedal/brake booster somehow got stuck open, negating the vacuum assist to cause hard pedal.
but that sounds near impossible since i've easily blown air through them with my mouth so unless there is some mold defect for it to get stuck shut once somehow, lol.
maybe the seal in the pedal/brake booster somehow got stuck open, negating the vacuum assist to cause hard pedal.
Race Director
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 14,064
Likes: 1,166
From: N. Alabama
Your friend just got out of his automatic 7spd tranny car. I would venture to guess that he might left foot brake and subsequently confused your clutch for the brake pedal in the vette. Quite frankly, I have done that when learning left foot braking years ago. It happens.