Forged piston
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
Forged piston
hey guys i wanted to ask about the wiseco pistons, as you know the LT1 compression is 11.5, wiseco have the same pistons with two compression 11.5 and 10.5.
if i install the wiseco 11.5, is it gonna handle power more than 800 with no problems ?
or it gonna have the same problem as the factory pistons?
and what about if i get the 10.5 compression, is it gonna get me the same hp as the 11.5 compression? or it gonna be less than the higher compression ?
my point is does the higher compression gonna give me more horse power ? and would it be effected if it forged in the level of the 800 hp?
if i install the wiseco 11.5, is it gonna handle power more than 800 with no problems ?
or it gonna have the same problem as the factory pistons?
and what about if i get the 10.5 compression, is it gonna get me the same hp as the 11.5 compression? or it gonna be less than the higher compression ?
my point is does the higher compression gonna give me more horse power ? and would it be effected if it forged in the level of the 800 hp?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
Likes: 1,837
From: cookeville tennessee
hey guys i wanted to ask about the wiseco pistons, as you know the LT1 compression is 11.5, wiseco have the same pistons with two compression 11.5 and 10.5.
if i install the wiseco 11.5, is it gonna handle power more than 800 with no problems ?
or it gonna have the same problem as the factory pistons?
and what about if i get the 10.5 compression, is it gonna get me the same hp as the 11.5 compression? or it gonna be less than the higher compression ?
my point is does the higher compression gonna give me more horse power ? and would it be effected if it forged in the level of the 800 hp?
if i install the wiseco 11.5, is it gonna handle power more than 800 with no problems ?
or it gonna have the same problem as the factory pistons?
and what about if i get the 10.5 compression, is it gonna get me the same hp as the 11.5 compression? or it gonna be less than the higher compression ?
my point is does the higher compression gonna give me more horse power ? and would it be effected if it forged in the level of the 800 hp?
Yes the lower comp will yield you less rwhp. That in turn you will have to put a smaller pulley on it to get to 800 rwhp. More chance to have belt flip. Bigger pulley less chance of it get what ever cam with 32% more gas to it with meth for safety call it a day.
If I was every going for 900 in my mind I would get a set of good rods now also. Robert
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
It looks like you are going F.I. I don't see these motors liking the boost like the LS motors. If me go with the Wiseco 5,K over just to clean up the holes in the block & go with the 11:5 same as the stock and call it a day.
Yes the lower comp will yield you less rwhp. That in turn you will have to put a smaller pulley on it to get to 800 rwhp. More chance to have belt flip. Bigger pulley less chance of it get what ever cam with 32% more gas to it with meth for safety call it a day.
If I was every going for 900 in my mind I would get a set of good rods now also. Robert
Yes the lower comp will yield you less rwhp. That in turn you will have to put a smaller pulley on it to get to 800 rwhp. More chance to have belt flip. Bigger pulley less chance of it get what ever cam with 32% more gas to it with meth for safety call it a day.
If I was every going for 900 in my mind I would get a set of good rods now also. Robert
Pro
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 687
Likes: 83
From: Fort Worth Texas
We have an 800+ rwhp daily driven C7 Z51 with the Wiseco / Vengeance Racing drop in LT1 forged pistons. We opted for the 10.5's, 3.5" pulley on our ECS 1500, TS&P heads / cam package with the extra fuel lobe, dual nozzle alky meth, 1 7/8" American Racing LT headers, crosspipe with cats, Borla ATAK no NPP valves, Circle D Pro III 3000-3200 stall converter and a few little do dads here and there. I can tell you that our car is rock solid around 850 rwhp. All of our power is being put down through an automatic trans, so keep THAT in mind as well. The power is just phenomenal! The internals are already forged minus the pistons, so they are your weak link. A proper tune is crucial as you know.. Have a reputable shop perform your tune if you decide to pull the trigger. We also plan on going with the bigger ECS 2200 head unit to the tune of roughly 17-18 pounds of boost.. when that happens, everyone seems to think it will be a solid 925 rwhp car.
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
We have an 800+ rwhp daily driven C7 Z51 with the Wiseco / Vengeance Racing drop in LT1 forged pistons. We opted for the 10.5's, 3.5" pulley on our ECS 1500, TS&P heads / cam package with the extra fuel lobe, dual nozzle alky meth, 1 7/8" American Racing LT headers, crosspipe with cats, Borla ATAK no NPP valves, Circle D Pro III 3000-3200 stall converter and a few little do dads here and there. I can tell you that our car is rock solid around 850 rwhp. All of our power is being put down through an automatic trans, so keep THAT in mind as well. The power is just phenomenal! The internals are already forged minus the pistons, so they are your weak link. A proper tune is crucial as you know.. Have a reputable shop perform your tune if you decide to pull the trigger. We also plan on going with the bigger ECS 2200 head unit to the tune of roughly 17-18 pounds of boost.. when that happens, everyone seems to think it will be a solid 925 rwhp car.
the rods isn't forged steel, its forged powder metal, so is that as strong as the steel forged? I'm looking for between 800 to 900 hp daily car and the car is a z51 M7 so probably it gonna gain more hp than an auto trans, my build gonna be as it follow
a&a t trim SC
custom cam from cunningham motorsports
LTH ARH 1 7/8
WISECO pistons with 11.5 compression
alky control duel nozzle kit
LMR OR FSP breather (didn't decide yet)
custom pod pillar for psi and AFR gauges
Pro
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 687
Likes: 83
From: Fort Worth Texas
Thanks. We're very confident the stock block will be fine. Several 1000+ hp C7 builds out there now that confirm that. As for the Wiseco Forged Pistons, Vengeance Racing recommends leaving the factory rods in place with this particular piston. Here is an excerpt from their thread:
We intentionally went with their lower compression offering to allow for a little more headroom to make it a tad more boost friendly.. 
Thanks for all of the interest guys. To answer your questions ....
Our pistons are designed to retain stock compression ratio. We have not seen an issue with the stock compression/direct injection combination. in testing upward of 14/16psi. The issue is simply with the design/strength of the OE piston. As Steven from LMR mentioned and I pictured above, these pistons are failing and not providing any indication. The top of the piston pictured above looks perfectly fine, yet had 96% leak down when tested.
You would not be able to use an aftermarket rod as you would be changing the weight and would require balancing of the rotating assembly. Our pistons were designed to the exact weight of the OE pistons with strength in all of the right areas including the pin itself.
Each customer that has these pistons installed at Vengeance Racing will have their block honed to ensure proper seating of the rings.
We will take pictures of Trans C7 install as we make progress later this week.
Our pistons are designed to retain stock compression ratio. We have not seen an issue with the stock compression/direct injection combination. in testing upward of 14/16psi. The issue is simply with the design/strength of the OE piston. As Steven from LMR mentioned and I pictured above, these pistons are failing and not providing any indication. The top of the piston pictured above looks perfectly fine, yet had 96% leak down when tested.
You would not be able to use an aftermarket rod as you would be changing the weight and would require balancing of the rotating assembly. Our pistons were designed to the exact weight of the OE pistons with strength in all of the right areas including the pin itself.
Each customer that has these pistons installed at Vengeance Racing will have their block honed to ensure proper seating of the rings.
We will take pictures of Trans C7 install as we make progress later this week.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 67
From: Cumming GA
I'm at ~860rwhp and have the Vengeance drop in pistons which are the 11.5:1 compression. Car has done many dyno pulls, 1/2 mile events and so on without any issues.
Last edited by Bucknut2006; Jan 24, 2016 at 08:06 PM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
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From: cookeville tennessee
ttt
To the OP here if it was going to be a daily driver & you are 100% in your mind 800 rwhp is it for you. I would go with the 11.5 5,k over pistons for the car. This is due to the really bad bore job in these cars from the factory at the bottom of the block.
wiseco pistons & good set of rods stock crank. Meth for ins in it these motors don't like boost like the LS block does.
I would go with a A/A T trim head unit set up from Andy and call it a day with a good blower cam in it also... A good 770 to 800 rwhp will be one fun car with you under the seat.. Robert
wiseco pistons & good set of rods stock crank. Meth for ins in it these motors don't like boost like the LS block does.I would go with a A/A T trim head unit set up from Andy and call it a day with a good blower cam in it also... A good 770 to 800 rwhp will be one fun car with you under the seat.. Robert
Last edited by robert miller; Jan 24, 2016 at 09:12 PM.
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I'm Batman..
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From: Lehigh Acres FL
Tech Contributor
When you did the pistons did you rebuild the whole bottom end and hone the block or did you literally drop them in unbalanced?
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
Thanks. We're very confident the stock block will be fine. Several 1000+ hp C7 builds out there now that confirm that. As for the Wiseco Forged Pistons, Vengeance Racing recommends leaving the factory rods in place with this particular piston. Here is an excerpt from their thread:
We intentionally went with their lower compression offering to allow for a little more headroom to make it a tad more boost friendly..
We intentionally went with their lower compression offering to allow for a little more headroom to make it a tad more boost friendly..
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
To the OP here if it was going to be a daily driver & you are 100% in your mind 800 rwhp is it for you. I would go with the 11.5 5,k over pistons for the car. This is due to the really bad bore job in these cars from the factory at the bottom of the block. wiseco pistons & good set of rods stock crank. Meth for ins in it these motors don't like boost like the LS block does.
I would go with a A/A T trim head unit set up from Andy and call it a day with a good blower cam in it also... A good 770 to 800 rwhp will be one fun car with you under the seat.. Robert
wiseco pistons & good set of rods stock crank. Meth for ins in it these motors don't like boost like the LS block does.I would go with a A/A T trim head unit set up from Andy and call it a day with a good blower cam in it also... A good 770 to 800 rwhp will be one fun car with you under the seat.. Robert
sorry but there is something that i didn't understand what does 5,k mean !?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
Likes: 1,837
From: cookeville tennessee
got the t trim already from andy, gonna get the blower cam from Cunningham motorsports, and will stick with the stock rods since they are forged, and considering to get the a catch can breather which one would you recommend LMR or FSP ?
sorry but there is something that i didn't understand what does 5,k mean !?
sorry but there is something that i didn't understand what does 5,k mean !?
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Joined: Dec 1999
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From: Texas Speed TX
If your going to take it apart you might really consider rods & maybe even a stroker crankshaft! Your really talking about $2000 for a full forged rotating assembly which will bump you up to 416+ CI. If you make 50 more hp from the stroker that's that much less boost it takes to get to your goals!!
Jason
Texas Speed
www.texas-speed.com
Jason
Texas Speed
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,205
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From: Cumming GA
Was scary seeing my brand car with an empty engine bay and the block on a stand. That's when I knew there wasn't any going back
If your going to take it apart you might really consider rods & maybe even a stroker crankshaft! Your really talking about $2000 for a full forged rotating assembly which will bump you up to 416+ CI. If you make 50 more hp from the stroker that's that much less boost it takes to get to your goals!!
Jason
Texas Speed
www.texas-speed.com
Jason
Texas Speed
www.texas-speed.com
Last edited by Bucknut2006; Jan 25, 2016 at 10:14 AM.
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
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From: cookeville tennessee
Vengeance removed the engine, stripped it down to the short block and honed it. Just left the car with them for a week so not exactly sure how long it actually took.
Was scary seeing my brand car with an empty engine bay and the block on a stand. That's when I knew there wasn't any going back
Do you also put in longer sleeves when building a stroker?
Was scary seeing my brand car with an empty engine bay and the block on a stand. That's when I knew there wasn't any going back
Do you also put in longer sleeves when building a stroker?
No you don't need it on the sleeves it don't work that way.., Plus like the guy told you on the better parts on a 416. I would for sure go this way & to trust GM stuff on running 800 rwhp in the block for no more than it cost .. Robert
Last edited by robert miller; Jan 25, 2016 at 01:47 PM.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 67
From: Cumming GA
Jump to the 11:30 minute mark in the video.
Is this not an issue that affects the LT1 engine?
Team Owner
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 29,059
Likes: 1,837
From: cookeville tennessee
Hard to understand your post, but the reason I asked is because it mentions issues with stroking the LSx engines and the need for longer sleeves.
Jump to the 11:30 minute mark in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsmbbuSq9m0
Is this not an issue that affects the LT1 engine?
Jump to the 11:30 minute mark in the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsmbbuSq9m0
Is this not an issue that affects the LT1 engine?
A number of guys in here has put the 416 motor in the car with no problems making more rwhp than the 800..
Plus you can't put a longer sleeve in the block at the bottom of the hole the rods will hit it. But you can buy a RHS are DART tall block that will do what you are talking about here so the full piston will keep in the hole..
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
Thanks for you helpful advises, gonna go with FSP and 11.5 wiseco pistons
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,160
Likes: 40
From: Kuwait
If your going to take it apart you might really consider rods & maybe even a stroker crankshaft! Your really talking about $2000 for a full forged rotating assembly which will bump you up to 416+ CI. If you make 50 more hp from the stroker that's that much less boost it takes to get to your goals!!
Jason
Texas Speed
www.texas-speed.com
Jason
Texas Speed
www.texas-speed.com