Bill Dearborn

I agree. Neither engine has any issues due to track use. The Z06 is more of a beast and the consumable cost might be a little higher due to slightly higher speeds. Fuel consumption is probably 15% higher but the brakes would be about the same. Both the C7 GS and Z06 get the same stock brake packages. The ceramic brakes are good but the replacement parts will break the bank so you need to switch to an aftermarket brake system like the Essex AP Racing kits that both Sean and I have on our cars.

The A8s tend to have an engine over heating issue that puts them into limp home mode. This is mainly due to holding the transmission in lower gears and running closer to the rev limiter than what people do with the M7. The M7 Z06s, 15 and 16 with the GMPP Secondary Radiator and the 17, 18 models with the standard secondary radiator definitely don't have a cooling problem. I have run my car in low 90 temps at the Glen and at VIR with no heat issues turning a 2:05:8x at the Glen this year and a 2:04:89 at VIR.

I have two track seasons on my Z06 with several thousand track miles and haven't had any issues that would warn anybody away from the car. It doesn't use oil on track, passes everything except the gas pumps and feels safe and solid on the track. I got to the C7 Z from a C6Z, proceeded by a C5Z, a 97 C5 and an 86 C4. The C7Z is definitely the best track Corvette GM has ever produced. The GS is damned good and the C7 Z51 is damned good as well.

Both the C7 GS and C7 Z06 will do better than C6 versions of either. Despite higher weights they corner better than the previous generations.

Bill

vicomel

Sean and Bill, thanks for all the C7 information. I rarely short-shift and will normally run up toward the red-line. Would I need to stop doing this with the GS A8? Will the GS need extra coolers or a bigger radiator?

tgibrit

I am a new owner, purchased a GS a few months back. Have 5 days at WGI and 2 days NJMP, GS is a great car, very impressed so far. the only real downside is the gearing, particularly at WGI, needs a taller 3rd gear and could benefit from a modest power/torque increase. I appreciate GM give us a track warranty, so I am not going to mod the car and invalidate it.

Jay_Davis

And have them deny the warranty and try to make you pay for a new motor.

I personally know of 2 Z06 motors that went and one Z51 motor (mine).

If you really want to stay with Corvette, go the C6 route.

vicomel

If GM is saying the C7 can be tracked, what justification do they have to not pay for an blown engine still under warranty? One of the big things that appeals to me is the 5 year engine/drive train warranty.

Ray7374

Hi Vic, I am a new corvette owner and new to the forum but have been tracking cars for many years. I am in SoCal and it gets pretty hot here during our track days. I recently purchased a 2017 GS and am amazed at how capable it is on the track and how fast it is right out of the box. My recommendation is for the Grand sport. I have friends with Z06s also and they can only get a couple laps before the car starts to over heat. I came from a Dodge Viper and an M4 that I tracked heavily. - This grand sport is amazing for the money. The top cars at my event all were stripped out and caged 3 of them on slicks - trailered in- I drove my car to the track and home. The Grand Sport is amazing

PeteC7

The track warranty was another big benefit for me. The fact they know the car was designed to be tracked and they give you the requirements to do it in the manual (heavier oil, high temp brake fluid, alignment, rear diff oil change interval, and even tire pressures) so I'm not doing any powertrain mods.

Also I definitely recommend getting the PDR and Cosworth toolbox software, it's definitely worth it for tracking the car.

gpuglisi

From what I've read, any modification, down to changing the tires from something other then OEM (more grip) can be used as a reason. Also "abuse", not sure how that one is determined.

Ray7374

HI Vicomel, I'm new to the forum and just purchased my first corvette. I was in a very similar situation and decided to go with a 2017 Grand Sport.
Here are some notes on how I made my decision.

Previously I had been tracking a dodge Viper and recently a M4. I just couldn't get the lap times I wanted and was facing a 2000$ investment in new track tires and brake pads for the M4. I had already spent almost 3k on track wheels, camber plates, etc.

If you google "corvette grand sport willow springs" - look for the motor trend video of Randy Pobst comparing a GS to a 911.

A friend of mine works with NASA Pro Racing and said the C7 chassis has been one of the most capable vehicles right off the show room floor he has ever seen

I live in so cal and its regularly over 90 degrees at our track events. Several acquaintances have Z06s and they all have challenges at the track with heat. Usually they can only do 2 - 3 laps before having heat issues.

At 1501 miles I pulled through the gate at Buttonwillow raceway and had one of the most fun track days I can remember. My car won its time trial group - All the top cars ( with the exception of mine ) were stripped down, caged, and on slicks. The race director noted my car turned times slightly faster than the American Iron group. The only modification I did was a basic track alignment ( and was pleasantly surprised the car still drives well on the street )

I just couldn't be more pleased with my GS. and I was very skeptical !!

Cap'n Pete

A few years back, I had a base 2010 C6, then upgraded to an '06 Z06, as I was cooking the base car (no coolers on anything).

Aside from the over-heating issues of the C6, it handled really well, and the power was easily manageable (ie: I could put my foot to the floor pretty much ANYWHERE on track without fear).

The upgrade to the Z06 was awesome. It was so "at home" on the track. The handling was FAR superior, the braking was better, and the power was awesome, BUT, I had to be more tentative with the throttle.

In retrospect, I think the Grand Sport is the perfect answer ....... all the track "goods" of the Z06, with the more "sane" power of the base car (regardless whether we're talking C6 or C7).

I'm back in the market for a car next year (...been out of the game for a few years, since having kids) but the Grand Sport - to me - is still probably the best and most capable bang-for-the-buck going.

vicomel

Yes, I definitely plan to get the PDR. Right now GM is having a 20% off sale on 2017 c7's. While I think a c6 GS would be great, I am thinking I can't really pass up a brand new c7 GS with no miles and a 3/5 year warranty for an extra $20k.

Jay_Davis

None. They have not given one, they just refused to honor the warranty. Of course they can't give one because there isn't any justification to do so on a car that's 100% stock and all the rules were followed in terms of use and maintenance. They don't care.

Oh yeah, when the car first died and all that had been done is the dealer found metal in the oil filter, Chevy Customer support told me that they "determined the cause was not a manufacturing defect but because of how the car was used." Its impressive they can tell that in two days from an oil filter. In other words, they are full of it.

Obviously we are just at the beginning of resolving this whole thing.

Between the A8 issues, lack of cooling in a "track ready" car (for the A8 in my case), and blatantly not honoring the warranty, its pretty obvious what kind of company the "new GM" is.

Bill Dearborn

Did they deny the warranty? If so did they deny it for a reason other than running the car on track? I have had some performance issues on track and the dealership bends over backwards to solve the problems and all charges have been covered by the warranty.

I have no Qualms over them denying a warranty claim if I blow the engine on track. I blew the engine on my 08 C6Z while on track and GM gave me a new engine under the 5 year power train warranty.

Sure it takes them a while to approve the claim while they make sure you didn't mod the engine (during which time the dealer is non committal about coverage) but they do cover the claim after going through their process which can take several weeks. My daughter had the V6 engine on her 09 Pontiac Torrent fail about a year after the LS7 died and used the same dealership for her claim. Same process and same amount of time consumed before approval came through.

Bill

vicomel

Dumb question, but is the A8 the automatic?

Ray7374

ya the A8 is the automatic. I have the manual 7 speed

Socko

I was in this exact same position lost syncro keys in 14 and a motor in 15 which the replacement was built wrong and then replaced again in 16. Lost lots of track time including all of the 16 season so i bought a gs this year.

In reality its not any faster in a straight line then my c5z with headers and a tune, and slower for sure then the c5z with a cam and headwork. The added weight is detectable in acceleration but the cars balance over all is exceptionally good and its not as touchy in transition. The consumables will cost more specifically cause its super fat, my c5z scaled at 3084 with 3/4 tank of gas this thing is listed at 3462 or something its silly heavy. But its more sorted stock so I can run it on gm's dime. I don't need to add calipers and an oil cooler and radiator just so I can replace rotors every weekend. I am gambling that in the long run the cost savings and headache reduction of not rebuilding motors and transmissions will mostly make up for the cost of the car and should make my up time better as getting motors built takes quite a while and wastes most of a season.

Poor-sha

Vic - get the manual if your goal is a track car.

Kamran

Although GS has only been out one year (therefore been tracking it only a year), all my fluid test results “continue” to show improvements. Changing “all” your fluids several times a year (oil, diff and tranny) and having them analyzed not only provides peace of mind, but also provides documentation to back up any possible warranty claims. It also documents the grade of fluid at various time during the year.

As Tadge recommended (can be found in ask Tadge section), for track use, one should consider M7 for better cooling or else consider short shifting an A8. Also GM added more cooling system to M7 in 2017, and not to A8 due to lack of space.

On equal skill level, a GS is no slower than a Z06, it pretty much comes to the driver. Yes, a less skilled driver can gain a second or so down the straight, but he will have to start slowing sooner for the corner. Vettes are too heavy to be thrown into corners (I’m sure you already know). When you’ve got 15 or so corners per lap, a fraction of a seconds per corner adds up to way more than any gain from the straights.

On days when I’m not over inflating to protect tires corded on shoulders, there really isn’t anything out there that has a leg on a GS, except for one or two Radicals or Formula Mazda’s and that’s not all of them either.

The difference between driving a modern GT3 and a GS is GT3 is a surgical scalpel while compared to GT3, GS is a machete (crude way to describe it). And they both sound like them too. I think there’s less thrill driving a modern GT3 than a GS. A 2004 GT3 is a different story...

As far as fuel consupmtions, I think at red line, all cars do about the same. I think even my 2 liter FRS used about the same amount of feul as my GG.

The only nicety a Z06 has over a GS is the third gear torque coming out of corners, where a GS has to go into second gear to stay in the power band.

As far as consumables, it’s really up to your driving style. Being smooth on your inputs, is helpful when it comes to consumables. The best complement I ever got from a passenger was a gal who told me she thought I never braked the entire time!

Tadge also, in a recent reply, noted some of their endurance race drivers use very little consumables, compared to some other drivers.

Treat the car right, take car of it, monitor it closely and a GS will reward you in return.

X25

Granted, my opinion seems to be changing a bit every year, but after all these years, it really feels like all these cars we talk about or use are nothing but huge compromises. With weight and power comes high cost consumables (fuel, brakes, tires, etc.) as well as handling characteristics that are not the most rewarding, which is a big ussue.

It's a bit twitchy due to short wheelbase, and it's pretty pricey, but once we start hitting base Z06 prices, I think we should also seriously consider Ariel Atom (3), or similar cars. These come with top notch suspension pieces, use tires that are 1/3 - 1/4 price of ours, and also come with full cage. The only car that comes remotely close to these is Miata, but it always needs a lot of work to become a serious track tool. What's more, the recipe of fairly high HP (it comes with a 300 hp with 1350 lbs curb weight, and it's faster than any Corvette from launch) and very light weight doesn't change every year, so you can just keep it for many years without having to worry what you're missing out by not switching to the newest model. After all, we want the newest model in hopes of better outcome from all the compromises we have to deal with, but if there's no compromise, you suddenly realize that you don't need to upgrade anymore : )

Granted, Atom is not a good daily driver, but it's at least approved for street use, and if your track car is your 3rd, 4th or even 5th car, then who cares?

I'm hoping to keep my Corvette for a while, and when it's time to upgrade, I'm seriously considering one of these lightweight cars. We'll see...

vicomel

Yes I would definitely get the manual. Would the manual need a bigger radiator or any additional external coolers?