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I have a stock 2017 Grand Sport Z07 which I took to the track this weekend. The weather was a sunny 70 degrees. Prior to going, I changed to Mobil 1 ESP 0w-40. While on the track my engine temp was in the 210-214 degree range but my oil temp was about 260 degrees. On my last (and best) session the oil temp hit 270 degrees but dropped to about 230 during my cool down lap and 210 after three slow-speed laps of a short cool down area.
My understanding is that this oil is designed for high operating temperatures, but I can’t find any postings either at the Mobil 1 site, on the internet or on CorvetteForum that talks about track day oil temp with this oil. The folks I was with said the peak oil temperature I experienced was fine, but I’m wondering if there is anyone here on CorvetteForum who knows what the operating temperature range is for Mobil 1 ESP 0w-40. No conjecture, please. I’m hoping there’s someone from Mobil 1 or another oil expert on the Forum that can answer my question. Thanks in advance!
Last edited by Stingray Sam; 11-19-2018 at 08:47 AM.
That's fine. The biggest issue is not so much oil temp, but oil pressure at that temp. Oil pressure will decrease as oil temp increases. If you get to the point that oil temp is so high that pressure is low you have a problem. Modern synthetic oils can go well over 300* without issue.
You took a step in the right direction when you changed your oil from 5W30 to 0W40.
You should look at your oil pressure at those 270 degree F temperatures. I have only driven one C7 Stingray, and it registered a maximum oil pressure of 40 psi. at 205 degree F temperature. I would worry about pressures below that for track use, and I would have a C7 Z6 oil cooler installed.
Also, Mobil 1 is a Grade 3 (Average) base stock synthetic. Oils like Royal Purple and AMSOIL are Grade 4 (Better) base stock synthetics, and Red Line and MOTUL are Grade 5 (Best) base stock synthetics. At a minimum, if I were you I would change over to one of the Grade 4, or better yet Grade 5 synthetics in a 0W40 weight. 300 degree F oil temperatures are not good for any oil
Also, Mobil 1 is a Grade 3 (Average) base stock synthetic. Oils like Royal Purple and AMSOIL are Grade 4 (Better) base stock synthetics, and Red Line and MOTUL are Grade 5 (Best) base stock synthetics. At a minimum, if I were you I would change over to one of the Grade 4, or better yet Grade 5 synthetics in a 0W40 weight. 300 degree F oil temperatures are not good for any oil
Any oil company that wants my business will need to warranty-certify their oil, not just claim stuff. Pretty sure AMSOIL is approved by Redline and Purple could be voodoo for all I know. They have their proponents but I want independent lab testing, not internet endorsements.
I could be way off and now they're certified, but not when I checked a couple of years back.
To the question though, 270 is not bad. It's on the way to bad, but not bad in and of itself.
You took a step in the right direction when you changed your oil from 5W30 to 0W40.
You should look at your oil pressure at those 270 degree F temperatures. I have only driven one C7 Stingray, and it registered a maximum oil pressure of 40 psi. at 205 degree F temperature. I would worry about pressures below that for track use, and I would have a C7 Z6 oil cooler installed.
Also, Mobil 1 is a Grade 3 (Average) base stock synthetic. Oils like Royal Purple and AMSOIL are Grade 4 (Better) base stock synthetics, and Red Line and MOTUL are Grade 5 (Best) base stock synthetics. At a minimum, if I were you I would change over to one of the Grade 4, or better yet Grade 5 synthetics in a 0W40 weight. 300 degree F oil temperatures are not good for any oil
We run Motul 10w40 in most cars, 15w50 on Lou's cars. Noticed you have quite a few LG Parts on the ZR1, we appreciate your business!
What is the normal oil temperature and coolant temperatures ?
I was driving my car on a slow busy street, and while I was sitting there , my gauges started to climb into the 220-230 degree range .
waiting for your opinion guys as it can give me more idea on that. thanks in advance
You should look at your oil pressure at those 270 degree F temperatures. I have only driven one C7 Stingray, and it registered a maximum oil pressure of 40 psi. at 205 degree F temperature. I would worry about pressures below that for track use, and I would have a C7 Z6 oil cooler installed.
Also, Mobil 1 is a Grade 3 (Average) base stock synthetic. Oils like Royal Purple and AMSOIL are Grade 4 (Better) base stock synthetics, and Red Line and MOTUL are Grade 5 (Best) base stock synthetics. At a minimum, if I were you I would change over to one of the Grade 4, or better yet Grade 5 synthetics in a 0W40 weight. 300 degree F oil temperatures are not good for any oil
Two points of interest re oil temp and pressure:
Oil Temp:
I started to use Mobil 1 in 1974 when it was first available. It was a recommended by the Datsun Area Service Rep as a cure for the probesm I was having when accelerating when my 260Z was warm. Not for the enfgine for the large Hatchi SU carb dashpots as it maintained viscosity when they got hot! At the time Mibol 1 was a true synthetic.
It was espnesive but after reading about it's ability to maintain viscosity at high temps thought it might work in my modified Corvair where oil tmps were reaching 325 F when driving aggressively! That was after installing an added capacity fined aluminum pad and valve covers. That pad even had tapered pin fins that went inside the crackchase everywhere they would not hit a spinning crack! The Mobil 1 worked no more oil breakdown that was obvicous from a scum that formed on the oil intake pipe! That was gone even with ~325 F oil.
In ~2000 Mobile lost a suit against Castrol who was using what is called a "more highly refined dino oil" and calling it "synthetic!" Mobil and some others were using an oil made from synthetically made molecules. According to the following article, Mobil (and others) had no choice but to switch to this "dino oil" manufacture as it cost half of the man made molecule production process! It's a fun read and prices did drop in half:h ttps://www.caranddriver.com/features/pat-bedard-synthetic-motor-oil-gets-all-new-semantics-column
OIL PRESSURE:
The C7 is the first Vette to use a variable volume oil pump to save energy. That is what the pressure is lower and at time jumps form one level to another- it's computer controlled. The key is when oil does exceed 300 F it's not breaking down, Mobil says it can withstand much more than 300 F but the viscosity does decrease. That is why as LG Motorsports notes for all out racing as they participate in a 15-50 oil is used. Pressure are less than in my C6.
First: The sleeve crank and rod bearings need much higher psi than supplied by the oil pump! Several thousand psi! But they generate their own pressure when rotating, by what is called forming a hydrodynamic wedge! The oil pump just needs to assure enough oil is supplied to the breakings. Oil viscosity is a significant factor in defining that pressure. However I recall when we were a sponsor of the Petty race team I asked Dale Inman, who was the team manager, what oil was used and he indicated something like a double 0 or some such rating. It was used to reduce friction. I recall I asked if that is good for engine wear and he said, "For the 500 miles we need!"
Second: The C7 changed the location of where it is measured to be near the end of the passage that feeds the crack. So it is the pressure after whatever pressure drop occurs in that passage.
Thanks to everyone who responded! This actually turned out to be a very informative (for me) thread.
We all know that oil is critical to engine longevity but the nuances are pretty interesting.
So, Mobil 1 is saying that ESP is a full synthetic. I know one of the advantages of a full synthetic is that the molecules are much smaller than the molecules of petroleum-based motor oils. As a consequence, they coat more evenly and effectively infiltrate areas with extremely tight tolerances.
Blended synthetics have molecules that are of varying size. They coat parts better than a 100% petroleum-based oil, but not as well as a full synthetic.
One of the benefits of the 0w-40 is that the low cold viscosity means that less wear occurs in the first few seconds of cold starts, which is where about 65-70% of total wear occurs on a well-maintained engine.
As far as my oil pressure at 270 degrees, I noticed it was in the 45-50 psi range at full acceleration at 5,000-6,400 rpms. Does that sound about right?
Last edited by Stingray Sam; 11-23-2018 at 01:05 AM.
Yep before Mobil lost their case against Castrol re what could be called synthetic or full synthetic, Mobil 1 was truly made from man made molecules. After, since it was half the cost of production, Mobil and others switched to the Castrol’s method of just making more “highly refined” Dino Oil, as some refer to it. Not sure how big or small the molecules are, but this well written article notes it’s like Bill Clinton’s Statement, “Depends on what the meaning of is, is,” referring to his affair with Monica!
As far as oil pressure, whatever the molecules look like, with the new “variable volume” oil pump the C7 and now many cars are using to save energy, 45 psi is sufficient and about what I see. The issue is the pressure will occationally jump from a low reading to high as it’s being controlled by the computer based on a number of variables.
As I noted, after the engine is started the pressure in the crank and rod sleeve bearings is a thousand+ psi., created my the rotating movement as long as there is oil present. The C7 apparently located the pressure sensing sender near the end of the bearing supply passage so even 40 psi means there is sufficent oil supply to that critical area.
SIDE BAR;
I have been using Mobil 1 since 1974 when it was in fact made from man made molecules, you can read the long chemical name in the Car & Driver article. Continued when it switched to “dino oil” as did they all because of cost and the price did cut in half. IMO it’s at least as good as any “full synthetic” and better than some. And no that oil made from natural gas is not the oil I call “true synthetic” it’s classification is still that of dino oil, the same as Mobil 1 and other “full synthetics.” In the US that old method of manufacture is no longer sold for automotive use and for industrial use is over 3 times the price in drums!
Looking at the reason Mobil lost their case r.e. what could be called synthetic and it was judged as “just a marketing term,” is the support Castrol got from API an SAE. I have no inside info but am very familiar with specifications we write in our industry where we DO NOT charge for putting our specifications on a box. API and SAE were (still are to my knowledge) getting tribute per container from anyone stating on the container their oil meets, xyz, API or SAE specs. They had a vested interest in having only technical specs define what classification and oil fit into.
Doubt they thought GM would develop their own specification after that ruling and they also would demand tribute for putting “meets GM dexos, etc!”
API and SAE, probably like our industry, have manufacturers of products write the specifications in volunteer committees. My observation and participation on these types of volunteer committees is they are often have omissions to satisfy manufacturing issues and costs! Our tech committees must have balanced representation including uses to get ANSI recognition but that is not always sufficient to have some rather lose specs in areas! Just Sayn”
I’m reminded of the meaningless advertising terms “natural”, “organic”, and “low sodium”, among others. I guess, like everything else, when it comes to “synthetic” motor oils the notion of caveat emptor is still is alive and well.
First: The sleeve crank and rod bearings need much higher psi than supplied by the oil pump! Several thousand psi! But they generate their own pressure when rotating, by what is called forming a hydrodynamic wedge! The oil pump just needs to assure enough oil is supplied to the breakings. Oil viscosity is a significant factor in defining that pressure. However I recall when we were a sponsor of the Petty race team I asked Dale Inman, who was the team manager, what oil was used and he indicated something like a double 0 or some such rating. It was used to reduce friction. I recall I asked if that is good for engine wear and he said, "For the 500 miles we need!"
What is the maximum temperature bearings can tolerate for longevity?
Does 0W-40 really help cold start? Seems during cold start bearings are protected by residual oil rather than pumping oil to them. Seems 0W vs 5W wouldn't make much difference getting oil to the bearings. Isn't the change to 0W all about saving fuel?
What is the maximum temperature bearings can tolerate for longevity?
Does 0W-40 really help cold start? Seems during cold start bearings are protected by residual oil rather than pumping oil to them. Seems 0W vs 5W wouldn't make much difference getting oil to the bearings. Isn't the change to 0W all about saving fuel?
Yep I mentioned in my quote you refereced, the lighter oil was used to reduce friction for better mpg.
I don’t know that the bearing metal temps are affected by any reasonable oil temp. The crack and rod sleeve bearing just need enough oil to generate the required pressure.
What is the normal oil temperature and coolant temperatures ?
I was driving my car on a slow busy street, and while I was sitting there , my gauges started to climb into the 220-230 degree range .
waiting for your opinion guys as it can give me more idea on that. thanks in advance
I’ve reached that engine temp range in stop and go traffic on a hot day. I wouldn’t be too concerned until it hits the 240-245 range. You’ll get plenty of warning on the DIC if you’re getting anywhere near overheating. Around 240, the computer will start by notifying you it’s shutting down AC. That will usually be enough to bring down or at least stabilize engine temp.
Once you start moving it should cool down quickly.
11-19-2018, 08:07 AM
Engine Oil Operating Temperature Range
