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anyone try the Vitesse product to improve throttle response?
My own experience w/ throttle controllers is that it changes the pedal mapping, not the actual throttle response. In other words, it sweeps the OEM curve (green) at a higher rate (faster) but not any smoother. Whichever problems you had at part throttle will remain.
If you look at the knee (bend) on the OEM curve you'll see the driver only has 8 degrees of blade travel to go from part throttle (gentle slope) to power throttle (steep slope), traversing that range faster will make the transition more abrupt yet, and less predictable. It works almost like a switch that goes from little response to too much response.
On the other hand, this design not only increases the slope (response) at part throttle, but also makes the knee much wider (17 deg), and accelerating the car is more of a continuum in which you can gradually control speed w/o the switch-like action. That makes actual response not only faster but accurate and predictable.
Received my new Soler Engineering MTB. Very nicely packaged. Will get it installed in he next few days and report my findings. I am anxious to see if it helps solve my issue with the stock throttle "feel". Stay tuned!
I think I know the answer, just wanted to double check. The SE8223-100 NEW is a new TB you guys purchased and ported and is sitting on your shelf ready to go? Like I don't have to remove mine and send it out? This will be for my '17 Z06 M7
I think I know the answer, just wanted to double check. The SE8223-100 NEW is a new TB you guys purchased and ported and is sitting on your shelf ready to go? Like I don't have to remove mine and send it out? This will be for my '17 Z06 M7
Thanks.
m0t0man, that is correct.
We don't only port them we modified the whole blade sweep at part throttle as well, starting off idle to match a more "linear" response curve and create a smoother power delivery. We have also adjusted some fits and clearances. There is no clear definition of what porting is though, and I get the gist of your question. I just wanted to make sure that you, and members reading this later on, know that we go a bit beyond what we are used to see as ported throttle bodies.
First really nice day out tomorrow here, Mike. I'm about to test out the Katech modified one you used for R&D. I have the battery disconnected tonight for the relearn process, I'll let you know my thoughts.
Are the reworked TB's the same as your new ones? Any revisions in design?
We don't only port them we modified the whole blade sweep at part throttle as well, starting off idle to match a more "linear" response curve and create a smoother power delivery. We have also adjusted some fits and clearances. There is no clear definition of what porting is though, and I get the gist of your question. I just wanted to make sure that you, and members reading this later on, know that we go a bit beyond what we are used to see as ported throttle bodies.
Thanks,
Yeah, that was it. Awesome. I'll be putting in an order for a new one. I'm out of town working so it'll be 2-3 weeks before I go home to install it. Also, great name.
First really nice day out tomorrow here, Mike. I'm about to test out the Katech modified one you used for R&D. I have the battery disconnected tonight for the relearn process, I'll let you know my thoughts.
Are the reworked TB's the same as your new ones? Any revisions in design?
Hi, how does swapping the throttle body mod drastically differ from the Vitesse throttle controller? My understanding is the Vitesse remaps the throttle response and so the throttle opens faster than stock taking out the lag?
First really nice day out tomorrow here, Mike. I'm about to test out the Katech modified one you used for R&D. I have the battery disconnected tonight for the relearn process, I'll let you know my thoughts.
Are the reworked TB's the same as your new ones? Any revisions in design?
Hello Spinkik, glad to hear you can finally ride your car and give the TB a try.
Yes, reworked units and new units are the "same" in the first 33% of throttle within +/-20% from each other. We evaluate the part throttle response before rework as the average rate of increase of mass airflow (MAF) per degree of throttle blade opening, then we find the difference in response from that to the nominal/target airflow of our new units, and size/rework them to hit that target. After 33% throttle, they are still very similar, that is an area where the work done to them previously (porting) almost coincides w/ what we do and decided not to touch.
No design changes so far. Although, that is never out of the question, there are just too many models and mods combinations.
BTW, is your SC on? Tune done?
Thx,
Last edited by Mike@SolerEngr; Apr 8, 2019 at 02:12 PM.
Reason: typo
Hi, how does swapping the throttle body mod drastically differ from the Vitesse throttle controller? My understanding is the Vitesse remaps the throttle response and so the throttle opens faster than stock taking out the lag?
thanks!
faninc, the answers are scattered here in this thread, which has gotten a bit long to read it completely. I'll link a few spots I remember discussing that.
I'll present two exaggerated examples drastically contrasting to get the point across.
1) Imagine a butterfly valve in which the blade doesn't have any clearance from the body at any angle; you would get zero airflow no matter how fast or how far you move the blade.
2) On another butterfly valve in which there is no blade; you would get the same airflow no matter how fast or how far you rotate the shaft with a missing blade.
See the point? Electronic control is limited by physical constraints/barriers.
Hello Spinkik, glad to hear you can finally ride your can and give the TB a try.
Yes, reworked units and new units are are the "same" in the first 33% of throttle within +/-20% from each other. We evaluate the part throttle response before rework as the average rate of increase of mass airflow (MAF) per degree of throttle blade opening, then we find the difference in response from that to the nominal/target airflow of our new units, and size/rework them to hit that target. After 33% throttle they are still very similar, that is an area where the work done to them previously (porting) almost coincides w/ what we do and decided not to touch.
No design changes so far. Although, that is never out of the question, there are just too many models and mods combinations.
BTW, is your SC on? Tune done?
Thx,
Thanks! SC goes on April 22nd. I'm really excited. I'll update on performance before / after.
Hi, how does swapping the throttle body mod drastically differ from the Vitesse throttle controller? My understanding is the Vitesse remaps the throttle response and so the throttle opens faster than stock taking out the lag?
thanks!
The electronic controllers basically try to fix the problem by "skipping" the problem area in the throttle body at a faster rate. So when you push the gas, it opens much quicker, but the problem with this approach is that its basically a bandaid to go around the truck like design of the OEM throttle body design. Opening faster like that also wont give you the same linear feel that a real fix can.
At the end of the day, stock throttle response is fine. If I pay money it will be for a performance horsepower gain, not for slightly better throttle response. If it yielded me 5-10 rwhp then yes.
At the end of the day, stock throttle response is fine.
I disagree. For me, it is not fine. For me, the entire driving experience is what it is about, not just added horsepower during full throttle application. Most of my driving is in-town, stop and go, stop light to stop light. So I am always in off idle transition (tip-in). And I HATE the stock response. I am anxious to get my new MTB from Soler Engineering installed and see if it helps my situation.
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