Black Death
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 49
Black Death
The air conditioner on my 2015 C-7 broke about 3 years ago.My local dealer did a repair for about $2500. It had been working fine until a few days ago, when it abruptly stopped cooling. I immediately brought it to the same local dealer who now tells me that my air conditioner has "Black Death" and the whole unit must be replaced at a cost of $6500.
Does this condition take much time to develop? Is the cost excessive? Any alternatives or suggestions?
Does this condition take much time to develop? Is the cost excessive? Any alternatives or suggestions?
Last edited by LB001; May 4, 2023 at 01:13 PM.
Advanced
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 61
Likes: 15
From: Jacksonville, Fl
black death just means that something (usually compressor) has came apart and sent debris through the whole system. called that due to the black residue left behind. sounds a little high. sounds like they are pricing every component. you have to replace the compressor, expansion valve and drier. also any lines that have mufflers on then. can usually flush lines, condenser and evap core.
if you are still under 2 years since last dealer repair, it may likely be under a service parts warranty.
if you are still under 2 years since last dealer repair, it may likely be under a service parts warranty.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
The air conditioner on my 2015 C-7 broke about 2 years ago.My local dealer did a major repair for about $2500. It had been working fine until a few days ago, when it abruptly stopped cooling. I immediately brought it to the same local dealer who now tells me that my air conditioner has "Black Death" and the whole unit must be replaced at a cost of $6500.
Does this condition take much time to develop? Is the cost excessive? Any alternatives or suggestions?
Does this condition take much time to develop? Is the cost excessive? Any alternatives or suggestions?
What does $6500 get me? What parts are you changing and what work is being done.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
black death just means that something (usually compressor) has came apart and sent debris through the whole system. called that due to the black residue left behind. sounds a little high. sounds like they are pricing every component. you have to replace the compressor, expansion valve and drier. also any lines that have mufflers on then. can usually flush lines, condenser and evap core.
if you are still under 2 years since last dealer repair, it may likely be under a service parts warranty.
if you are still under 2 years since last dealer repair, it may likely be under a service parts warranty.
Is it 2 years or 1 year?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
Black death is real. The bearing particulate gets into everything. It will then cycle through and destroy the new compressor.
You can take a chance and pull the expansion valve, then flush the lines and evaporator separately using an AC flush gun. I did that on a Panamera by request of the owner after explaining the risks. They opted for about $450 total parts repair on the compressor, drier, condenser, expansion valve, flush and refill. It's been over a year now and the compressor hasn't failed yet, but I'll be shocked if it survives long term.
You might want to consider replacing the parts and flushing yourself if the sticker shock has you hesitant. A vacuum pump is about $100 for a robinair, then $20-$40 for a set of HVAC gauges. The refrigerant will affordable as wel. Alternatively an independent shop can likely beat stealership pricing.
You can take a chance and pull the expansion valve, then flush the lines and evaporator separately using an AC flush gun. I did that on a Panamera by request of the owner after explaining the risks. They opted for about $450 total parts repair on the compressor, drier, condenser, expansion valve, flush and refill. It's been over a year now and the compressor hasn't failed yet, but I'll be shocked if it survives long term.
You might want to consider replacing the parts and flushing yourself if the sticker shock has you hesitant. A vacuum pump is about $100 for a robinair, then $20-$40 for a set of HVAC gauges. The refrigerant will affordable as wel. Alternatively an independent shop can likely beat stealership pricing.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
Black death is real. The bearing particulate gets into everything. It will then cycle through and destroy the new compressor.
You can take a chance and pull the expansion valve, then flush the lines and evaporator separately using an AC flush gun. I did that on a Panamera by request of the owner after explaining the risks. They opted for about $450 total parts repair on the compressor, drier, condenser, expansion valve, flush and refill. It's been over a year now and the compressor hasn't failed yet, but I'll be shocked if it survives long term.
You might want to consider replacing the parts and flushing yourself if the sticker shock has you hesitant. A vacuum pump is about $100 for a robinair, then $20-$40 for a set of HVAC gauges. The refrigerant will affordable as wel. Alternatively an independent shop can likely beat stealership pricing.
You can take a chance and pull the expansion valve, then flush the lines and evaporator separately using an AC flush gun. I did that on a Panamera by request of the owner after explaining the risks. They opted for about $450 total parts repair on the compressor, drier, condenser, expansion valve, flush and refill. It's been over a year now and the compressor hasn't failed yet, but I'll be shocked if it survives long term.
You might want to consider replacing the parts and flushing yourself if the sticker shock has you hesitant. A vacuum pump is about $100 for a robinair, then $20-$40 for a set of HVAC gauges. The refrigerant will affordable as wel. Alternatively an independent shop can likely beat stealership pricing.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
Compressor, AC Delco 1522368 $285
Condenser, AC Delco 1563789 $181
Evaporator, GM 1563790 $123
Expansion Valve, GM 1551330 $32
Evaporator line, AC Delco 1534669 $56
Compressor to Condenser line 1534867 $78
Link to cart: https://www.rockauto.com/en/cart/?ca...13b33b8bde69a0
That's under $1k in parts, then factor in about $50 - $100 in refrigerant. You can shop around and beat $5500 in labor.
Last edited by CPB; May 4, 2023 at 09:11 AM. Reason: Link to cart
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
"How?" in regards to which statement?
Compressor, AC Delco 1522368 $285
Condenser, AC Delco 1563789 $181
Evaporator, GM 1563790 $123
Expansion Valve, GM 1551330 $32
Evaporator line, AC Delco 1534669 $56
Compressor to Condenser line 1534867 $78
Link to cart: https://www.rockauto.com/en/cart/?ca...13b33b8bde69a0
That's under $1k in parts, then factor in about $50 - $100 in refrigerant. You can shop around and beat $5500 in labor.
Compressor, AC Delco 1522368 $285
Condenser, AC Delco 1563789 $181
Evaporator, GM 1563790 $123
Expansion Valve, GM 1551330 $32
Evaporator line, AC Delco 1534669 $56
Compressor to Condenser line 1534867 $78
Link to cart: https://www.rockauto.com/en/cart/?ca...13b33b8bde69a0
That's under $1k in parts, then factor in about $50 - $100 in refrigerant. You can shop around and beat $5500 in labor.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
$5,500 / $150 = 36.66 hours. Someone that has never worked on AC can do this job in under 36 hours. That $6,500 is being inflated somewhere. Either bad parts pricing, bad shop rate, bad hours estimate or all of the above.
tldr; $6,500 is a stupid price
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
The time isn't the factor, it's their rate. If this is $5500 in labor, then they hopefully are charging $150 - $200 hourly shop rate. Plenty of places are doing $60 rate.
$5,500 / $150 = 36.66 hours. Someone that has never worked on AC can do this job in under 36 hours. That $6,500 is being inflated somewhere. Either bad parts pricing, bad shop rate, bad hours estimate or all of the above.
tldr; $6,500 is a stupid price
$5,500 / $150 = 36.66 hours. Someone that has never worked on AC can do this job in under 36 hours. That $6,500 is being inflated somewhere. Either bad parts pricing, bad shop rate, bad hours estimate or all of the above.
tldr; $6,500 is a stupid price
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
Then take $100 or $150 shop rate, tell me how many hours because it isn't 36 hours of labor to do this job.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
Also, rockauto price means nothing since that is DIY price. IF the shop allows you to bring your own parts, they issue NO warranty or they show you the door.
Last edited by aklim; May 4, 2023 at 10:33 AM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
I wish the OP and all others who ask these questions stop asking or attach the QUOTE. We don't know what they found or what they are doing. Just a $X statement is MEANINGLESS.
Also, rockauto price means nothing since that is DIY price. IF the shop allows you to bring your own parts, they issue NO warranty or they show you the door.
Also, rockauto price means nothing since that is DIY price. IF the shop allows you to bring your own parts, they issue NO warranty or they show you the door.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
Part warranty isn't linked to the installer, as for things like compressor warranties you just need documented invoice from the installer that they did the steps required. Shops often don't want to deal with owners buying the wrong parts, but the OP can tell them to order ACDelco from their own supplier. Some shops make a substantial margin from parts markup, stealership for example is going to leverage their owns parts center and make money on you from both sides.
If you bring me your transmission parts, I assemble it and there is a failure 6 months later, you make a claim with the parts vendor and I will change you again for the work. Best case scenario, you get new parts free and you pay me to R&R the transmission and rebuild it.
We did a fuel level sensor at MB. It involves dropping the tank and something else. It failed 2 months later. They redid the job, filed papers and all that. I got a full tank of gas, car washed and used a nice loaner. Sure, I paid a markup. It's a business NOT a charity. The service department has to turn a profit just as parts does. I don't begrudge them.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,278
Likes: 550
From: Pittsburgh PA
St. Jude Donor '10-'11-'12-'13-'14
Given a choice I would always go to a local air conditioning / heating / cooling specialty shop for a/c problems. Find one that the local independent mechanics send their work to.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
Shops mark up parts they buy. That is standard. If I am a shop, you and I go into NAPA, I'll pay $40,you'll pay $50 and my customer pays $60. If it breaks within a year, I file a claim with NAPA and you get it fixed regardless for free. If NAPA denies the claim, I will eat it. As I understand it.
If you bring me your transmission parts, I assemble it and there is a failure 6 months later, you make a claim with the parts vendor and I will change you again for the work. Best case scenario, you get new parts free and you pay me to R&R the transmission and rebuild it.
We did a fuel level sensor at MB. It involves dropping the tank and something else. It failed 2 months later. They redid the job, filed papers and all that. I got a full tank of gas, car washed and used a nice loaner. Sure, I paid a markup. It's a business NOT a charity. The service department has to turn a profit just as parts does. I don't begrudge them.
If you bring me your transmission parts, I assemble it and there is a failure 6 months later, you make a claim with the parts vendor and I will change you again for the work. Best case scenario, you get new parts free and you pay me to R&R the transmission and rebuild it.
We did a fuel level sensor at MB. It involves dropping the tank and something else. It failed 2 months later. They redid the job, filed papers and all that. I got a full tank of gas, car washed and used a nice loaner. Sure, I paid a markup. It's a business NOT a charity. The service department has to turn a profit just as parts does. I don't begrudge them.
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 433
Likes: 49
Black Death
[QUOTE=aklim;1606586898]What was the "major repair" about? $2500 doesn't list what was done.
What does $6500 get me? What parts are you changing and what work is being done.[/QUOTE
I modified the date of last air conditioning repair. It was 2020,-3 years ago so no warranty. At that time the bill reads 2 seals, evaporator kit, and refrigerant, plus labor-$2324 total..
Currently I was given a verbal estimate of $3500. After they had the car for about a week, a got a phone call advising me of "black death" diagnosis, and $6500 estimate to have "everything" replaced.
What does $6500 get me? What parts are you changing and what work is being done.[/QUOTE
I modified the date of last air conditioning repair. It was 2020,-3 years ago so no warranty. At that time the bill reads 2 seals, evaporator kit, and refrigerant, plus labor-$2324 total..
Currently I was given a verbal estimate of $3500. After they had the car for about a week, a got a phone call advising me of "black death" diagnosis, and $6500 estimate to have "everything" replaced.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
What was the "major repair" about? $2500 doesn't list what was done.
What does $6500 get me? What parts are you changing and what work is being done.[/QUOTE
I modified the date of last air conditioning repair. It was 2020,-3 years ago so no warranty. At that time the bill reads 2 seals, evaporator kit, and refrigerant, plus labor-$2324 total..
Currently I was given a verbal estimate of $3500. After they had the car for about a week, a got a phone call advising me of "black death" diagnosis, and $6500 estimate to have "everything" replaced.
What does $6500 get me? What parts are you changing and what work is being done.[/QUOTE
I modified the date of last air conditioning repair. It was 2020,-3 years ago so no warranty. At that time the bill reads 2 seals, evaporator kit, and refrigerant, plus labor-$2324 total..
Currently I was given a verbal estimate of $3500. After they had the car for about a week, a got a phone call advising me of "black death" diagnosis, and $6500 estimate to have "everything" replaced.
Team Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 28,422
Likes: 3,275
From: Hartford WI
I can't afford rock auto. My latest crap was returning 2 air shocks under warranty. 1 label. I had to buy a box to send it out. WTF. You sent 2 boxes. He can ask around for 2 other shops to replace everything and see if it comes out better. I'm nervous going past the firewall. A lot of crap to break. Maybe he should look at the official book time to do all that and get the parts quote from the parts counter.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 954
Likes: 376
From: Louisiana
I can't afford rock auto. My latest crap was returning 2 air shocks under warranty. 1 label. I had to buy a box to send it out. WTF. You sent 2 boxes. He can ask around for 2 other shops to replace everything and see if it comes out better. I'm nervous going past the firewall. A lot of crap to break. Maybe he should look at the official book time to do all that and get the parts quote from the parts counter.