C7 Z06 vs C6 Z06 performance
#41
Team Owner
Going to a non-runflat tire will save at least 5lb per corner. Going to carbon wheels will knock of 10 per corner. Carbon rotors, which I assume will be standard, are worth another 7lb per corner. So there is potentially a whopping 22lb per corner to be saved, which counts 3X what chassis weight does for handling. 12lb of that is within reason cost-wise. The wheel material and cost is the big questionmark. The original Dymag carbon wheels were $3K each, but that was back in the 90s. Carbon components have come down significantly in cost since then. If there is a way to get carbon wheels on the Vette, GM will do it.
Other realistic weight saving areas are non-power seats, lexan hatch / windows, and carbon rear quarters.
As Joe says, if they do FI this time around, that becomes a slipperly slope due to the 100lb it adds to the front end of the car, which is why I'd be surprised if they went this way on the Z06. It will be much tougher to significantly improve performance over a Z06 Z07 with FI, and you also have the heat soak issue no matter how good the FI is. The LS9 charge-cooling is marginal due to space limitations, and I don't see that getting better on C7. A big part of "Track capable" means that you can hammer the car all day at a lap session without degraded performance, and I just don't think that is possible with FI. So my money is on a 7.0L NA DI mill making 575-600HP, with the overall car about 100lb lighter than a Z51 due to the aformentioned items.
Either way, I have no doubt that the C7 Z06 will be a big step up from the Z06 performance-wise. Anything less would be embarrassing.
Other realistic weight saving areas are non-power seats, lexan hatch / windows, and carbon rear quarters.
As Joe says, if they do FI this time around, that becomes a slipperly slope due to the 100lb it adds to the front end of the car, which is why I'd be surprised if they went this way on the Z06. It will be much tougher to significantly improve performance over a Z06 Z07 with FI, and you also have the heat soak issue no matter how good the FI is. The LS9 charge-cooling is marginal due to space limitations, and I don't see that getting better on C7. A big part of "Track capable" means that you can hammer the car all day at a lap session without degraded performance, and I just don't think that is possible with FI. So my money is on a 7.0L NA DI mill making 575-600HP, with the overall car about 100lb lighter than a Z51 due to the aformentioned items.
Either way, I have no doubt that the C7 Z06 will be a big step up from the Z06 performance-wise. Anything less would be embarrassing.
#42
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
The GG tax on the C6 ZR1 is reduced due to CAGS, but not eliminated completely. Sans CAGS, the GG tax would be higher on the ZR1. Probably double, if I had to wager a guess.
GG tax is one thing, CAFE penalties are another entirely. And it's CAFE that the AFM system is primarily attempting to deal with.
seems worthless to have DOD on a high output FI car that will drink the gas and still incur that tax.
#43
A couple of pounds weight savings can be a big deal to some folks.
#45
75+ HP
Lighter than C6 Z07. More of a C5Z in terms of a track car
No carbon rotor vibration issues
Steering feel of C5Z which is much better than the C6Z
That would just about do it for me.
Lighter than C6 Z07. More of a C5Z in terms of a track car
No carbon rotor vibration issues
Steering feel of C5Z which is much better than the C6Z
That would just about do it for me.
#46
Team Owner
One of the few ways the C6Z might out perform the C7Z is gas mileage. I could be wrong though.
#47
Le Mans Master
Well, put it to you like this: some LS7 faithful are going to rationalize the difference as they did with the ZR1 when it arrived: intake, tune, driver's race, and pocket the extra 30+ grand they save not buying the new model. We had those posts back then....they will be back very soon....just keep your eyes on the C6 Z06 section.
The C7 is so badass the C6 even the ZR1 looks bleh in comparison boring imo. I can't wait January cannot come soon enough!
#48
Melting Slicks
I don't know what people are thinking about when trying to extrapolate data concerning the new car by using data from the old cars. The C7 already proved that all the hemming and hawing over the weight, the skinny tires, etc. that you can't judge a new car based on the old because technology has such a profound effect on cars that trying to base predictions on a 10 year old platform is about as meaningful as just pulling figures out of the air at this point.
Use the new C7 as the starting point in your thought process. Throw hopes and dreams out the window. Grasp reality and then do the math. The C7 Z51 is a car that is better than the last gen in every conceivable metric. Expect that the Z06 will be the same, as in everything the past Z06's could do, it will do better.
The one thing that really should be taken away from GM regarding this Z06...didn't they just outright say that this car is the most track capable Corvette ever produced? If that is the case, that includes the mighty ZR1...maybe you should be looking at those numbers instead.
#49
Melting Slicks
Going to a non-runflat tire will save at least 5lb per corner. Going to carbon wheels will knock of 10 per corner. Carbon rotors, which I assume will be standard, are worth another 7lb per corner. So there is potentially a whopping 22lb per corner to be saved, which counts 3X what chassis weight does for handling. 12lb of that is within reason cost-wise. The wheel material and cost is the big questionmark. The original Dymag carbon wheels were $3K each, but that was back in the 90s. Carbon components have come down significantly in cost since then. If there is a way to get carbon wheels on the Vette, GM will do it.
Other realistic weight saving areas are non-power seats, lexan hatch / windows, and carbon rear quarters.
As Joe says, if they do FI this time around, that becomes a slipperly slope due to the 100lb it adds to the front end of the car, which is why I'd be surprised if they went this way on the Z06. It will be much tougher to significantly improve performance over a Z06 Z07 with FI, and you also have the heat soak issue no matter how good the FI is. The LS9 charge-cooling is marginal due to space limitations, and I don't see that getting better on C7. A big part of "Track capable" means that you can hammer the car all day at a lap session without degraded performance, and I just don't think that is possible with FI. So my money is on a 7.0L NA DI mill making 575-600HP, with the overall car about 100lb lighter than a Z51 due to the aformentioned items.
Either way, I have no doubt that the C7 Z06 will be a big step up from the Z06 performance-wise. Anything less would be embarrassing.
Other realistic weight saving areas are non-power seats, lexan hatch / windows, and carbon rear quarters.
As Joe says, if they do FI this time around, that becomes a slipperly slope due to the 100lb it adds to the front end of the car, which is why I'd be surprised if they went this way on the Z06. It will be much tougher to significantly improve performance over a Z06 Z07 with FI, and you also have the heat soak issue no matter how good the FI is. The LS9 charge-cooling is marginal due to space limitations, and I don't see that getting better on C7. A big part of "Track capable" means that you can hammer the car all day at a lap session without degraded performance, and I just don't think that is possible with FI. So my money is on a 7.0L NA DI mill making 575-600HP, with the overall car about 100lb lighter than a Z51 due to the aformentioned items.
Either way, I have no doubt that the C7 Z06 will be a big step up from the Z06 performance-wise. Anything less would be embarrassing.
#50
Safety Car
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I also think the 7.0 version of the LT1 will be it. That's what I heard from my source. NA for track use and approximately 600hp. The leaked photo of the LT4 is just a diversion to keep us guessing. In Jalopniks recent interview with Tadge, he said there is a 100 percent possibility of a ZR1. Two motors to be built at the new Engine Build facility in BG, one the 7.0 NA called the L88 and the new supercharged LT4.
If GM somehow planned this as a diversion and throws us a curveball I would be in near disbelief.
#51
Melting Slicks
Ugh...why all this clingyness to NA? It's not like Corvette engines are super exotic tuned instruments of aural delight. Superchargers allow GM to produce an engine that provides the power we want, while still maintaining some civility while taking fuel economy into consideration. The days of the high displacement all motor from the factory engine are all but over. You can thank all the enviro-whackos for that.
The LS7 is a dinosaur, sorry but that's the way of it. GM has to compete on a world stage where turbo chargers and superchargers reign supreme because they allow more power, less displacement, and good fuel economy. Sure most sound terrible but thats the way of the future. Hell, in 20 years everything will be hybrid so don't get so stuck on old tech.
The LS7 is a dinosaur, sorry but that's the way of it. GM has to compete on a world stage where turbo chargers and superchargers reign supreme because they allow more power, less displacement, and good fuel economy. Sure most sound terrible but thats the way of the future. Hell, in 20 years everything will be hybrid so don't get so stuck on old tech.
#52
The LS7 is a dinosaur, sorry but that's the way of it.
Hell, in 20 years everything will be hybrid so don't get so stuck on old tech.
#53
Le Mans Master
Edit: Speaking of LT4, I actually only have one gripe about the C7 and that's the vastly underwhelming engine bay....not a single thing inspiring about it at all. I look at the pieces engineered to create the LT1 and they are beautifully done but then it's all put together and wrapped up in plastic covers and composite manifolds. I'm so tired of these plastic engine covers. Not a fan of them when they started using them on the C4 LT-1 and have hated them ever since. At the very least with the LT4 and keeping with the tradition of that engine code, paint the intake red to give the engine bay some pop. I know the old LT5 weighs a ton and is archaic by today's standards but still to this day the most beautiful Corvette engine, just opening the hood was a conversation piece without even turning a key.
Last edited by 1985 Corvette; 12-08-2013 at 04:48 PM.
#54
Its supposed too its called progress...OP
#55
If you have not seen this yet, brace for shock:
991:
Isn't it beautiful?
I do agree with you though. They have looked really REALLY boring since the C5. I would rather it look similar to the Shelby GT500 engine bay
Last edited by Paulchristian; 12-08-2013 at 08:42 PM.
#56
Drifting
LT-4 will be Z-06 and they'll bring back the LT-5 for he ZR-1 is my guess.
Will be interesting to see how they make this car quicker around Laguna Seca & the Ring... if 100HP more than Z-06 and 200lbs heavier... it can probably make it up... but if still down 30 or 40 HP on the ZR1... and 100LBS or more Heavier... not sure how they will do it, but can't wait!
Dave
Will be interesting to see how they make this car quicker around Laguna Seca & the Ring... if 100HP more than Z-06 and 200lbs heavier... it can probably make it up... but if still down 30 or 40 HP on the ZR1... and 100LBS or more Heavier... not sure how they will do it, but can't wait!
Dave
#57
Melting Slicks
I would guess that the C7 Z06 will have 650 HP, current ZR1 territory.
May weigh a tad more than the curent C6 Z06 and offer more handling inprovements.
May weigh a tad more than the curent C6 Z06 and offer more handling inprovements.
#58
Instructor
The C5 and C6 not only had more space under the hood, but the aftermarket was able to make some really cool pieces to add a really classic and unique look to the engine bay. It seems the C7 will be much more limited in that respect (I hope I'm wrong). In the end it's small potatoes compared to how overall amazing the C7 is, and like you said, we still have it much better than the Porsche guys in the engine compartment!!
#59
Melting Slicks
IMO C7 Z06 will outperform C6 Z06. It will be right on par with ZR1 or may beat it also.
Excited to see! The C7 is impressive and the widebody will definitely make it more aggressive.
I suspect blown 6.2 with about 600-650 hp for Z06.
Excited to see! The C7 is impressive and the widebody will definitely make it more aggressive.
I suspect blown 6.2 with about 600-650 hp for Z06.
Last edited by PEETYZ; 12-09-2013 at 11:15 AM.
#60