Weight absolutely matters, especially on the track. But light weight very much contributes to a sporty and nimble feel on the road too...

The issue is that to substantially lighten a car is a very very expensive thing to do. Much more expensive than adding more horsepower. It requires tremendous materials science, special fabrication, design and integration. That is why Porsche (their sports cars, at least), McLaren and Ferrari pull off 450-500++ HP AND just over 3000 lbs curb weight.

Really unfair to expect Chevy to sell a Z06 for well under $100K and pull off that level of weight savings. Our Z06's are tremendous performance bargains... at the price of some extra weight. An extra 250-300 pounds over those semi/full exotics is an awesome achievement that should be celebrated.

 

Excessive weight and the supercharger are the main reasons I am keeping my C6Z for a track car. We will likely buy a C7Z06 convertible, but it will be for weekend trips and cruising around.

 

I'm not a track pro by any stretch - and I agree that, all else being equal, lighter is better. However, it seems to me that effectiveness on a track comes down to one thing - lap times!! Aside from the bickering and speculation going on about GM is "withholding" ring times, every fact/piece of true evidence (i.e. lap times and feedback from serious drivers) points to this car whooping some serious a$$ on the track. Whether she is fuller figured or not, she seems to be getting the job done.

If you are aware of disappointing (i.e. less than the absolute top of the heap in the "under 750k category"), please do share.

 

just wait for the rattles/creaks/wind noise coming from the removeable roof panel to start.

 

Lighter is better. Especially on consumables on a car (Tires, brakes, etc).

The question I have is on your quote of times - Where are the lap times you are referring to? I have not seen any relevant comparision times, but maybe I missed something. I am waiting for the times in a apples to apples comparison. I am looking forward to seeing a C6 ZR1 with the new Cup tires on it go against a CZ Z06 Z07 package car. It will be interesting to see what happens.

There is no doubt that the new C7 Z06 Z07 has a good amout of downforce. How that will play out on longer tracks with longer straights is still TBD.

 

First, I think GM simply did a trade off. Less weight means less content and comfort. On the extreme end of the spectrum, I bought a Lotus Elise in 2005. With fuel, it was under 2000 lb. But it has almost no insulation and sound deadening, crappy stereo, no traction control or stability, and the side sills are super high for stiffness with a light frame (think frame rail doubles as armrest when you are in the car. The seats are hard shells, bare aluminum all over the place in cockpit, flimsy body panels. Car sold very poorly after the initial rush, and only now has a lunatic fringe following.

But, it is the fastest car i have ever been able to run on track with no mods for cooling and brakes, and very, very low consumable costs. It won't turn the lap times of a Z06, but it will probably be within 2 sec per mile and will cost probably 25% of Z cost in consumables (or less), and can be driven at a qualifying lap pace continuously for 30 minute sessions. Add a turbo or supercharger and the lap delta goes down, although consumables go up.

The new Z is a street GT that can turn some very, very fast laps. Data thus far indicates that in the hands of a fast driver you will use up a set of tires and brakes in one DE weekend, and if ambient climbs much over 80 deg, you'll probably have to short shift every 4-5 laps to cool down. You are probably talking on the order of $3k in consumables for a DE weekend that involves 3-4 hours of track time; at least $750/hour.

I just don't think of the new Z as a "track" car in that light. But in fairness that is true of most modern high performance cars. If you get serious about tracking, most people get a dedicated track car that can be made lighter, stiffer and wear race pads and tires all the time, among other things.

99% of owners won't use the car that hard, so GM made the right call to sell larger volume. It would be interesting to see a more hard core version, but I bet very few would step up and actually buy it.

 

There are some track reports in here, but they don't stay high in the rankings, frankly IMO because most forum members really aren't that interested in track performance. At Hallett the car was very fast, but got pretty warm and used up tires and brakes. At Road America somewhat the same. At Homestead and Laguna Seca the car was not driven super fast and ran cooler.

As far as comparisons go, those tend to end up in "Other cars" subforum unless the results favor the Z, so I'd caution you to check all su forums for a complete performance picture of the Z in comparison to other vehicles.

 

Tommy Milner's times are well-documented here. And also this:

http://fastestlaps.com/cars/chevrole...ngray_z06.html

I know we can get into tires this, repaving that - but the bottom line is, as we sit here today, the Z06 is putting down near (if not actual) world-beating lap times. I'm not saying it won't be dethroned in an apples-to-apples comparison - but the times on the link both say 1 out of XX.

I guess some were hoping for better than 1st place??? Again, I just haven't seen any lap times that make me say "wow - that's disappointing" or "jeez - it didn't get first by enough of a margin".

Also, point taken on the "consumables" - but that seems like a different angle. I agree - if you want a track-focused car that doesn't wear out tires or brakes quickly, maybe the Z06 isn't the car. But it appears to me (and I don't own one) that the ZZ06 runs like a scalded dog on the track - exactly as intended.

No one else is advertising or posting faster times around the tracks where that Z06 has been run - what more do people want? If it was easy for dodge to run out to these tracks and beat the time, they would have probably done it. That's a hell of a lot easier than shipping cars, equipment, etc. to Germany to try to run the ring.

 

Can you clarify what are you asking here?

 

Misssed a word - meant to say "if you are aware of disappointing lap times/track results, please post it". As I said in my subsequent post, all the lap times I see are impressive to say the least.

 

sorry, I meant what was the 750k referring to? I hoping you weren't suggesting $$$ and suggesting it has no competition in its own price range...

I think you could be right on track times, but would just reserve all excitement until same day/driver/track comparisons come out because way too many variables (track config/etc) changed in the link you posted to really know the difference/impact.

For me personally, the magazines do us a real disservice when they post hero laps instead of what the car does for 20-30min sessions as for those of us that do track them, that is reality.

 

I understand what you are saying, but the data link you posted contains variables that were changed (irregardless of the car). Repaving a track is a huge factor. Tires are a huge factor. Plus, the 918 was not driven by the class of driver than Mr, Milner is.

I like the C7 Z06. But I still think it is TBD on how fast the C7 Z06 Z07 car is vs. a C6 ZR1 (on the repaved track), the C6 ZR1 with the new cup tires (On the repaved track), etc. I think the downforce of the Z07 packaged car will make a difference. My question is, how much on a shorter track (Which is where I think it will shine), and on a longer track. I, like you, hope that the numbers are good. But at this time, it is TBD. Not to bring up the Germany track deal, but I sure hope that the times are good. As there are a number of threads out on this topic, it does seem a bit suspect that no time was ever posted. Yet, these VIR times on a repaved track were spoken to immediately... The problem is that is what everyone bases things off of - that particular track within the industry.

That is all I am saying.

 

I have had 7 Vettes and once adjusted I havent had that problem with any of them. And its certainly not a problem when the roof is off which for me is any time its reasonably warm.

 

Put my stage one on the scales yesterday. With a full tank of fuel, 2 light folding chairs, a portable set of emergency tools, a first aid kit, and 2 bottles of whisky it totaled 3534 lbs.

Folks have to keep in mind the new safety standards that are being continuously phased in. I fear all new cars will be slightly heavier due to these revised regulations. If a manufacture introduces a new car they must build it to comply if the model is planned to be sold after these rules are phased in.

The other issue is folks wanted higher quality interior and seats. They provided them and guess what? These items came at the expense of some extra weight.

3500lbs is no featherweight but I suspect you will find a trend of all newer models getting slightly heavier in the future. If you look closely this trend has already started.

 

I think the Viper is going to be the only track competition for the Z06 in its price range. I guess maybe the GT3 too?? But, I think the Z06 will be faster based on what I'm reading. When Randy Pobst criticizes the the competitions seats by saying they are great seats for a street car, but that the Z06 is doing things street cars can't do, I put some faith in that.

I know the 918 had a worse driver, but look at the next car on the list - it is like 8 seconds back!! That's a TON. 2 seconds for tires, 2 seconds for repave and 2 seconds for driver - and the vette still whoops all but the 918.

In terms of the tire discussion, on one hand I hear you - they obviously make a difference. On the other hand, if it were that easy to get a fast lap, wouldn't everyone just run Cups or Cup IIs? I don't hear anyone make those excuses for why the 918 or the GT3 is so fast - it only seems to come up when discussing the corvette.

It seems to me that if Ralph Gilles could put a set of cups on a viper and whip the snot out of every vette made, he would have done it a long time ago. In the interview where he said "they don't have them in our sizes", I went online and looked. Instead of 355s, the PSC was made in 345s for the viper rim size. If it were that critical and the Viper was the better car, your would think that Ralph would make his own life easier and either ask Michelin to make his sizes or put rears on it that at 10mm narrower. At this point, when the OEMs are shooting for the ultimate performance, they know that cups are the best. To not put them on your "halo" car is either stupidity or a way to keep a convenient excuse in your hip pocket for why your car is slower.

 

how much do you weigh?

 

interesting math, why 2 sec for tire and 2 sec for driver and 2 sec for repave. what data are you using. the 918 had the same tire as the z06

 

To be honest, I don't have a great sense for the correct math - all I know is that the Z06 has 2 or 3 seconds on the 918 time, 8+ seconds on the GTR and it gets uglier from there on VIR. My point was that there is a lot of room for a lot of variables to adjust others cars' times down - and still have the Corvette be ahead.

 

I am not sure on what tires a Dodge Viper has on them and why Dodge chose whatever brand they did. I would think that the Viper TA might have different tires that the GTS and base. I would have to research it.

As it relates to the list you provided - All of this stuff has been discussed before in different threads. To compare cars in this regard with one driver with other drivers who are from magazines, the driver mod is the biggest mod there is...

 

The top viper comes with p zero Corsas with a 60 treadwear rating - so it's not like they are all season tires. I think the cup IIs have a 180 treadwear rating.

At this point, I thing everything has been discussed about this car - including weight. Yet here we are!!!