Tracking E85!
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
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From: Beaverton OR
Tracking E85!
Can somebody give us some data on this?
We know alcohol can disolve aluminum.
We know it requires up to 30% more flow.
We know it is ~105oct.
We know it doesn't work well starting cold.
But!?
We know alcohol can disolve aluminum.
We know it requires up to 30% more flow.
We know it is ~105oct.
We know it doesn't work well starting cold.
But!?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Jul 17, 2015 at 07:55 PM.
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Conventional wisdom could conclude!
If the heat is quelled to begin with all the bandaids could possible fall out of the equation!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Jul 17, 2015 at 07:49 PM.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
As for the Octane, the rating is hugely deceiving. The way they test Octane is irrelevant in this case when it come to performance, the additional fuel in the combustion chamber reduces the end gas issues that cause detonation, as well as the thermal properties reducing cylinder temperatures dramatically. None of this is accounted for in the auto ignition test..... E85 can support more cylinder pressure than c16 will. On a 6.2 liter Engine most of us will never see even half the power it will support(well over 2000hp to the tire!)
Race Director
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From: Texas Hill Country
many of us are running E85, I run it full time, there are no issues with the pump or injectors. GM didn't drop Flex fuel from the trucks, they made it a 100 dollar option instead of standard. I also have my 6.2L 2015 1500 set up to run E85 or 93.
Racer
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
Really? I couldn't find the option when trying to build one.... I don't suppose you have a link? Would love to know for sure!
Race Director
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From: Texas Hill Country
The 6.2 has never been a Flex option from GM. You said DI engine. All you have to do is add the sensor and tune for it and your 6.2 will be Flex Fuel. I know Ben@WeaponX sells a sensor as well as DSteck at DSX Tuning.
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Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 385
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
Yeah, different parts are used in these engines. I know guys are "doing it" but that doesn't mean it will survive over time. The port injected 6.2's were flex, the D.I. ones aren't and there has to be a reason that is the case. You can get away with a lot of things for a period of time. I have too much experience in this area and I'm not interested in risking it until I find out why GM isn't offering flex fuel on the 6.2's
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
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From: Beaverton OR
Thanks Again Sir!
Yeah, different parts are used in these engines. I know guys are "doing it" but that doesn't mean it will survive over time. The port injected 6.2's were flex, the D.I. ones aren't and there has to be a reason that is the case. You can get away with a lot of things for a period of time. I have too much experience in this area and I'm not interested in risking it until I find out why GM isn't offering flex fuel on the 6.2's
So E85 is still on the docket technically, and The Ring generally GM!!!!
Safety Car
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From: Cin City
St. Jude Donor '14
Yeah, different parts are used in these engines. I know guys are "doing it" but that doesn't mean it will survive over time. The port injected 6.2's were flex, the D.I. ones aren't and there has to be a reason that is the case. You can get away with a lot of things for a period of time. I have too much experience in this area and I'm not interested in risking it until I find out why GM isn't offering flex fuel on the 6.2's
I have ran it in my own performance cars for several years and have had no issues.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 385
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
By different if you mean, cheaper yes. But if you're saying the extra .9L of the 6.2 and the parts composition makes the LT1/4 less tolerant to E85 then, no. E85 has been used in performance engines for a long time and I believe Jim Hall was the first to switch his C6 Z06 over to this stuff in '08. GM is not running it for the racer benefits, they do it for fuel economy, and I'm sure there are still grants and subsidies are tied into there as well. The G5 platforms got AFM for fuel savings instead to help towards Obumma's CAFE crap as it contributes more in the grand scheme. But ethanol comprises upto 10% 91/93 in a lot of locations now. It has a lower stoich, it burns cooler, has higher octane, and smells good too LOL for those who run catless. I have ran it in my own performance cars for several years and have had no issues.
I have ran it in my own performance cars for several years and have had no issues.Last edited by Tripleblk6spd; Jul 18, 2015 at 03:50 PM.
Race Director
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From: Texas Hill Country
What Ben is saying about economy is the savings per gallon outweighs the worse mileage (unless your local station is gouging, which some do).
Fuel economy is not the same thing as fuel mileage. E85 gets worse fuel MILEAGE. E85 gets better fuel ECONOMY than E10/E0. Economy has to do with $$, fuel mileage is simply miles/gallons. Fuel economy is miles/(($)gallons).
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 385
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
E85 has been run in "non flex" vehicles for a long time. I remember talking about it back in 06! Never had a local pump until about 2012 when I started running it in my 2012 SS Camaro.
What Ben is saying about economy is the savings per gallon outweighs the worse mileage (unless your local station is gouging, which some do).
Fuel economy is not the same thing as fuel mileage. E85 gets worse fuel MILEAGE. E85 gets better fuel ECONOMY than E10/E0. Economy has to do with $$, fuel mileage is simply miles/gallons. Fuel economy is miles/(($)gallons).
What Ben is saying about economy is the savings per gallon outweighs the worse mileage (unless your local station is gouging, which some do).
Fuel economy is not the same thing as fuel mileage. E85 gets worse fuel MILEAGE. E85 gets better fuel ECONOMY than E10/E0. Economy has to do with $$, fuel mileage is simply miles/gallons. Fuel economy is miles/(($)gallons).
Thread Starter
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
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From: Beaverton OR
MR shocks R&D consisted of....!?
DI FlexPower(fuel) E85 in a lower performance truck!
The Ring, and the 2016s, ending 2015 allocations.....!
GMs done some stupid things, but, they know how to make cars!
Since, it all can fit guys, hopefully!
The Ring, and the 2016s, ending 2015 allocations.....!
GMs done some stupid things, but, they know how to make cars!
Since, it all can fit guys, hopefully!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Jul 18, 2015 at 07:32 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Jan 2012
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From: Cin City
St. Jude Donor '14
Economy is economy, at the current price of E85, it's less economical. I was running E85 in cars in 04. That isn't my point at all. My point is the pumps and injectors in the LT1/LT4 may not be compatible at all. There is certainly a REASON GM is not offering it. The fact that they offer it in the 5.3 reinforces the issue. I plan on keeping this car for the long haul, so until I find a solid reason why it isn't offered in the 6.2 D.I., I won't run it, and believe me, I am well aware of the benefits.... Ran it on my e46m3 turbo, 996 turbo, and my twin turbo c6 z06, and I live in Arizona!
Ok so I still do not recall BMW, Porsche, or Chevrolet offering the flex fuel option on any of the aforementioned cars. Regardless, the LT motors are advanced LS derivatives with expected advancements given the times and SIDI. The 5.3 SIDIs have lower tolerance parts with respect to performance and worse injectors and a less flowing fuel pump system.
If you've strapped this car down, put in ethanol and monitored the fueling, like previous gens, there is more than enough injector flow and pump. Automakers do not use ethanol as a power proponent, so just because it didn't come with it, like previous gens and every other thing we add to these - it does not mean it can't handle it.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 385
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From: Scottsdale Arizona
Well I ran it back in 1998 on the chain of my BMX LOL
Ok so I still do not recall BMW, Porsche, or Chevrolet offering the flex fuel option on any of the aforementioned cars. Regardless, the LT motors are advanced LS derivatives with expected advancements given the times and SIDI. The 5.3 SIDIs have lower tolerance parts with respect to performance and worse injectors and a less flowing fuel pump system.
If you've strapped this car down, put in ethanol and monitored the fueling, like previous gens, there is more than enough injector flow and pump. Automakers do not use ethanol as a power proponent, so just because it didn't come with it, like previous gens and every other thing we add to these - it does not mean it can't handle it.
Ok so I still do not recall BMW, Porsche, or Chevrolet offering the flex fuel option on any of the aforementioned cars. Regardless, the LT motors are advanced LS derivatives with expected advancements given the times and SIDI. The 5.3 SIDIs have lower tolerance parts with respect to performance and worse injectors and a less flowing fuel pump system.
If you've strapped this car down, put in ethanol and monitored the fueling, like previous gens, there is more than enough injector flow and pump. Automakers do not use ethanol as a power proponent, so just because it didn't come with it, like previous gens and every other thing we add to these - it does not mean it can't handle it.
Race Director
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From: Texas Hill Country
Racer
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 385
Likes: 20
From: Scottsdale Arizona
Race Director
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From: Fort Worth, Texas
Well I ran it back in 1998 on the chain of my BMX LOL
Ok so I still do not recall BMW, Porsche, or Chevrolet offering the flex fuel option on any of the aforementioned cars. Regardless, the LT motors are advanced LS derivatives with expected advancements given the times and SIDI. The 5.3 SIDIs have lower tolerance parts with respect to performance and worse injectors and a less flowing fuel pump system.
If you've strapped this car down, put in ethanol and monitored the fueling, like previous gens, there is more than enough injector flow and pump. Automakers do not use ethanol as a power proponent, so just because it didn't come with it, like previous gens and every other thing we add to these - it does not mean it can't handle it.
Ok so I still do not recall BMW, Porsche, or Chevrolet offering the flex fuel option on any of the aforementioned cars. Regardless, the LT motors are advanced LS derivatives with expected advancements given the times and SIDI. The 5.3 SIDIs have lower tolerance parts with respect to performance and worse injectors and a less flowing fuel pump system.
If you've strapped this car down, put in ethanol and monitored the fueling, like previous gens, there is more than enough injector flow and pump. Automakers do not use ethanol as a power proponent, so just because it didn't come with it, like previous gens and every other thing we add to these - it does not mean it can't handle it.
http://www.lsxtv.com/news/power-numbers-released-for-gen-v-5-3l-ecotec3-and-4-3l-truck-engines/
The bigger the engine, the more of an increase it is which seems strange that they wouldn't offer it on the 6.2. Unless maybe it doesn't have enough for all DA swings being that more fuel is needed for those winter time days at sea level vs summertime days in the mountains. How much fueling is left on e85 say at -3000'? Obviously an sae corrected car a mile high isn't using as much fuel as one at sea level even though the dyno says it's making the same power and may be able to get away with it.