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Halltech versus OEM Intake Systems Dyno Results/Graphs - C7 M7 Z06
Installed the Halltech intake system on my M7 Z06 this past weekend. I did dyno pulls before and after the install. Graphs are provided below. These are as close to apples-to-apple comparative pulls as possible.
Items to note:
- Car has the OEM tune. NO tuning was done before or after installing the Halltech.
- None of the pulls were "hero" pulls. Pulls were BOTH done with the car at operating temperatures (i.e., I didn't do the OEM pull with a "hot" car and the Halltech with a "cold" pull).
- The pulls were done on the same day, same dyno, same ambient conditions. Pulls were separated only by the one hour it took to install the Halltech.
- Dyno used was a DYNO-mite dyno with 30" rollers.
- Correction Method = Standard
- I did not have the time to hook up the dyno equipment needed to log AFRs.
OEM Intake Results: Peak power = 546 Hp @ 6,050 RPM
Peak torque = 624 lb-ft @ 3,450 RPM
Halltech Intake Results: Peak power = 578 Hp @ 6,000 RPM
Peak torque = 624 lb-ft @ 3,675 RPM
Net gain of 32 Hp and no PEAK torque increase.I'm not sure why I'm not seeing any increase in peak torque? Maybe dyno related? Note the pulls were started at about 3,150 RPM as I didn't want to load/lug the car starting the pulls at ~2,000 RPM. I don't know if this would make a difference in peak torque?
I'm also uncertain of why, depending if you're a glass half full or half empty guy, the OEM intake shows a slight increase OR the Halltech shows a slight decrease in Hp and torque from around 3,900 RPM until 4,450 RPM?
If you print out and overlay the graphs you'll see performance is the basically the same with both systems until 4,650 RPM at which point the Halltech shows both Hp and torque increases up till 6,050 RPM.
On a side note, IMHO, the only way people are seeing 45 - 50+ Hp gains are by doing hero pulls. Basically, doing a pull with a hot car with the OEM system and a cold pull with the Halltech.
I did this a while back. Stock, up to temp, on a Dynojet my car did 579/618 SAE RW HP/RW TQ. I added the Halltech CKNZ and dyno'd again on the same dyno, similar conditions and made 624/644 SAE RW HP/RW TQ, again fully up to temps (engine, tranny, diff all up to temp).
All results with the stock tune. Interestingly, stock boost was 9.2 PSI, with the Halltech boost increased to 9.7 PSI.
The A/F was almost the same, peak was 12.6 stock, 12.8 with the Halltech.
I don't believe the theory that the ECM will adjust out the gains, my timing was the same, 25 degrees peak, no knock.
Months later I added the 9% overdrive pulley to up the boost and I made 651/689 SAE RW HP/RW TQ. Same dyno, similar conditions. Stock tune, at operating temp, no hero runs. With the pulley my boost increased to 10.7 PSI, and the peak A/F was 13.0.
I was still making 25 degrees of timing, with no knock.
So the Halltech added 40 rwhp and 25 rwtq SAE. The Halltech and pulley together added 72 rwhp and 71 rwtq SAE. All with the stock tune.
At all times I was monitoring A/F, timing, temps, and boost. The ECM did not pull timing or change the A/F to adjust for the Halltech.
Two items of interest, IAT2 (after the supercharger and intercoolers) went DOWN as the runs progressed, from about 96 to 92 degrees. We made three runs stock, three runs with the CAI, and later 3 runs with the pulley/Halltech, each time the IAT2 went down.
Also note, the Halltech is much less restrictive, the boost increased from the CAI change alone by .5 PSI.
All stock tune, no hero runs, separated by months and 2,000 miles. If the ECM was going to adjust and pull power, it would have by then. With similar A/F's, same timing, no knock, before and after this time and mileage, it's clear it's not going to.
Great info and thank you for taking the time to do this.
It only makes logical sense that an intake can only provide minimal gains but we have on some dreamers out there.
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
Great info and thank you for taking the time to do this.
It only makes logical sense that an intake can only provide minimal gains but we have on some dreamers out there.
I don't consider 32 Hp to be minimal. That's about 5-6% for around $550. Pretty good gains for the dollars. I'm just a little puzzled about the peak torque and loss/gain from 3,900 to 4,450 RPM....
Comes out to ~ 687 Hp at the crank versus 650 from the factory assuming 15% parasitic loss.
Great info and thank you for taking the time to do this.
It only makes logical sense that an intake can only provide minimal gains but we have on some dreamers out there.
32 hp at the wheel is minimal? Just for an intake swap?
Yea ok! I will take it and you would to!
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
FWIW, I "drove" the car 12 miles on the dyno after installing the Halltech to: 1) get the car up to temperature and; 2) allow the ECU to adjust. I do not know if this is enough run time for the ECU to adjust...
FWIW, I "drove" the car 12 miles on the dyno after installing the Halltech to: 1) get the car up to temperature and; 2) allow the ECU to adjust. I do not know if this is enough run time for the ECU to adjust...
I doubt it's time for the ECU to adjust but 32 hp for that price is a bargain! I don't think you'll pick up that much hp for that amount of money anywhere else. One other thing I thought about was fuel. The fuel you are using will have an impact on your results.
Last edited by badhabit_wb; 11-30-2015 at 04:56 PM.
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
This is the only reason I have not bought one yet. Would really like to see if long term gains hold up without a tune. If so I'm then in with purchasing one.
I did this a while back. Stock, up to temp, on a Dynojet my car did 579/618 SAE RW HP/RW TQ. I added the Halltech CKNZ and dyno'd again on the same dyno, similar conditions and made 624/644 SAE RW HP/RW TQ, again fully up to temps (engine, tranny, diff all up to temp).
All results with the stock tune. Interestingly, stock boost was 9.2 PSI, with the Halltech boost increased to 9.7 PSI.
The A/F was almost the same, peak was 12.6 stock, 12.8 with the Halltech.
I don't believe the theory that the ECM will adjust out the gains, my timing was the same, 25 degrees peak, no knock.
Months later I added the 9% overdrive pulley to up the boost and I made 651/689 SAE RW HP/RW TQ. Same dyno, similar conditions. Stock tune, at operating temp, no hero runs. With the pulley my boost increased to 10.7 PSI, and the peak A/F was 13.0.
I was still making 25 degrees of timing, with no knock.
So the Halltech added 40 rwhp and 25 rwtq SAE. The Halltech and pulley together added 72 rwhp and 71 rwtq SAE. All with the stock tune.
At all times I was monitoring A/F, timing, temps, and boost. The ECM did not pull timing or change the A/F to adjust for the Halltech.
Two items of interest, IAT2 (after the supercharger and intercoolers) went DOWN as the runs progressed, from about 96 to 92 degrees. We made three runs stock, three runs with the CAI, and later 3 runs with the pulley/Halltech, each time the IAT2 went down.
Also note, the Halltech is much less restrictive, the boost increased from the CAI change alone by .5 PSI.
All stock tune, no hero runs, separated by months and 2,000 miles. If the ECM was going to adjust and pull power, it would have by then. With similar A/F's, same timing, no knock, before and after this time and mileage, it's clear it's not going to.
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
I agree with 6 Speeder.
I have seen claims of this as well but I believe it's an old wives tale.
In open loop the PCM doesn't make fuel adjustments for the most part because there is no feedback loop.
In closed loop it does. If the short term and long term fuel trims stay close to normal the PCM will not "learn" or change anything significant in the WOT calibration for fuel.
If the intake causes (or anything else) causes knock, the PCM could drop down to the lower octane table. And lose power.
If knock is present the PCM will quickly dial the timing back about 2-3 degrees and then continuously probe to find the threshold to within a 1/2 degree or so.
If knock is more than 5ish degrees AND the PCM thinks the fuel is lower octane it will kick you down to the low octane timing table.
In addition to knock the PCM uses at least one other variable to determine if the fuel is low octane and weather to use the low octane table. The PCM doesn’t necessarily stay in this low octane table though.
However if the CAI intake is properly designed the system will not lean out the afr to the point of knock and cause a drop to the low octane table.
Both the AFE and the Halltech seem to be well designed in this regard.
Though both lean the AFR out by allowing a small amount of the extra airflow provided by the improved system not to be seen at the MAF sensor. But not so much as to throw codes or greatly affect the fuel trims in closed loop.
This allows the intake to produce power in 3 ways on the Z06.
1. More airflow from less restriction.
2. A little more boost from less pumping loss due to less restriction.
3. A slightly leaner afr from a small amount of un-metered air.
In addition to the Stingray system being marginal for the Z06 to begin with, this is how they get more than the "minimal gains" folks traditionally expect from a CAI.
If there is no knock what you see as gains on day one is generally what you can count on being there in the future less differences caused by temp and DA.
Conversely if there is knock what you lose will be almost immediate and will remain so until the PCM determines it can run more timing without knock.
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
wonder if this is why i have seen several for sale? i did not notice beng able for a friend to pull away from me with his intake vs mine stock on a long straight which was kinda surprising for the big hp gains they give on the dyno
wonder if this is why i have seen several for sale? i did not notice beng able for a friend to pull away from me with his intake vs mine stock on a long straight which was kinda surprising for the big hp gains they give on the dyno
I bet it's more of people don't want to hack things up on install and don't even bother trying to put it on after purchasing. I would just love to see some more dyno data a month or so out. The above from 6speeder is incouraging tho.
I bet it's more of people don't want to hack things up on install and don't even bother trying to put it on after purchasing. I would just love to see some more dyno data a month or so out. The above from 6speeder is incouraging tho.
Could be. But for the record if you are getting the Halltech according to their installation video there is very little hacking. You shorten one small hose by 5 inches and lengthen another small hose about 20 inches. Nothing else is required. Very simple and very simple (inexpensive) to convert back to stock from what I saw.
Last edited by dar02081961; 11-30-2015 at 09:48 PM.
Could be. But for the record if you are getting the Halltech according to there installation video there is very little hacking. You shorten one small hose by 5 inches and lengthen another small hose about 20 inches. Nothing else is required. Very simple and very simple (inexpensive) to convert back to stock from what I saw.
See pics in other thread below. Installed the new (-1) AFE intake and I did not have to cut a thing. Going back to "completely stock" would be a piece of cake. Just un-bolt and re-bolt stocker back on.
Poor choice of word. I agree with you. Close to 40 crank is substantial. With the other comments, it could make sense that with the additional air, it would allow more boost. However I just do not understand how that would be possible without a tunethough as the computer will dictate the maximum amount allowed.
Not saying what people have recorded is not correct, just trying to understand.
Originally Posted by dar02081961
32 hp at the wheel is minimal? Just for an intake swap?
Yea ok! I will take it and you would to!
Thanks for such a well documented report, was just reviewing these cold air packages.....one claims +46 hp and sells for $574.00 on EBay and Haltech shows +32 for $600.00,..... one a bit more work involved installing with simple hand tools.
Is is because of the nice looking CF which doesn't do a thing for HP but looks better? Power is what we are all interested in here at a reasonable price that a working man can afford.
Speeder, can you comment on the cost you incurred for the Halitech and the 9% pully, plus labor for the install....what was you cost to gain 72 RWHP?
I think higher HP figures can be achieved when the car is on the highway at speed rather than sitting still running it's guts out on a stationary dyno. Air flow in and out is the secret to make usuable HP in a Chev engine! Only problem we can't see those HP figures on the road.
Thanks again, this is the kind of info we can all use.
Ninja
Last edited by NinjaZX14r; 11-30-2015 at 10:58 PM.
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20
Originally Posted by Snorman
What I'd like to see is a pull a couple of weeks from now. From reading various threads on this topic (no tune CAI's), after a number of drive cycles, the factory ECU will start to adjust for the CAI and the car will make the same or less power than when stock.
As the car detects knock, it will start to pull timing down to the low octane tables and eventually, I think you'll see that horsepower gain disappear.
S.
Thanks for such a well documented report, was just reviewing these cold air packages.....one claims +46 hp and sells for $574.00 on EBay and Haltech shows +32 for $1,500.00,..... wow what a difference in price!
I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding pricing. I bought a Halltech from a Forum vendor for $550 delivered.
11-30-2015, 03:13 PM
Halltech versus OEM Intake Systems Dyno Results/Graphs - C7 M7 Z06
same here
