Who's done E-85 conversion?
Supporting Vendor
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,421
Likes: 1,430
From: Mesa Az
Is that E85 and meth or just E85 without meth?
I have your dual lift pump setup in my C7, LT4 injectors, rails, and HPFP and the injectors are no where near being able to support the fuel needs even on E30..... ~850rwhp
I have an Alky Control Kit on the way to help supplement the injectors until someone makes bigger DI injectors.
I have your dual lift pump setup in my C7, LT4 injectors, rails, and HPFP and the injectors are no where near being able to support the fuel needs even on E30..... ~850rwhp
I have an Alky Control Kit on the way to help supplement the injectors until someone makes bigger DI injectors.
Last edited by Cordes Performance Racing; Dec 19, 2015 at 10:37 AM.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 256
Likes: 51
From: DFW texas
C7 and E85
There are some issues related specifically to fuel delivery on a C7 that makes E85 not really a viable option when you are talking about pushing the envelope on HP on a C7, at least currently.....
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
Last edited by sr71bb; Dec 19, 2015 at 11:09 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
We have made 841 rwhp through an auto on stock c7 injectors, single alky nozzle, Z hpfp, our fuel system. With Z injectors I've made 900 so far no meth looks like it would go a little more just haven't turned it up yet. On 100% e85 both scenarios, I have other variations too making different power levels but these two are most relevant to the discussion.
confirming I am not crazy!
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
There are some issues related specifically to fuel delivery on a C7 that makes E85 not really a viable option when you are talking about pushing the envelope on HP on a C7, at least currently.....
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
This is why all the bigger power setups use meth. Not just to cool the charge but to add more fuel....
Le Mans Master
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 8,729
Likes: 1,508
From: Redmond WA
The stock fuel system can handle it with no issues, the components are compliant as per standard for E85. many of the components are used in flex fuel trucks. Mine is done, works great, keeps tips cleaner longer and the 30 plus HP gain is a nice addition. plus 20 bucks to fill up....
So to come in here and just say "it can handle it", that's crazy. Yeah, at idle, an at 80% max output, sure. But at peak torque you're rolling the dice. And they're some expensive dice to roll.
Note that Joe@CPR and similar are adding extra fuel delivery (though not sure about the in-tank portion).
Last edited by davepl; Dec 19, 2015 at 01:22 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
Except the chief engineer specifically said that the fuel pumps can't keep up, and that to do E85 would have required twin in-tank pumps and a bigger mechanical pump, all at extra cost, so they decided not to.
So to come in here and just say "it can handle it", that's crazy. Yeah, at idle, an at 80% max output, sure. But at peak torque you're rolling the dice. And they're some expensive dice to roll.
Note that Joe@CPR and similar are adding extra fuel delivery (though not sure about the in-tank portion).
So to come in here and just say "it can handle it", that's crazy. Yeah, at idle, an at 80% max output, sure. But at peak torque you're rolling the dice. And they're some expensive dice to roll.
Note that Joe@CPR and similar are adding extra fuel delivery (though not sure about the in-tank portion).
Commanding more HPFP rail pressure also makes your injector "bigger" and even commanding 24 Mpa (C7 is 15 and C7Z is 20) the LT4 injectors are still the weak link simply due to injection time.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Oops! Got to recant!
Except the chief engineer specifically said that the fuel pumps can't keep up, and that to do E85 would have required twin in-tank pumps and a bigger mechanical pump, all at extra cost, so they decided not to.
So to come in here and just say "it can handle it", that's crazy. Yeah, at idle, an at 80% max output, sure. But at peak torque you're rolling the dice. And they're some expensive dice to roll.
Note that Joe@CPR and similar are adding extra fuel delivery (though not sure about the in-tank portion).
So to come in here and just say "it can handle it", that's crazy. Yeah, at idle, an at 80% max output, sure. But at peak torque you're rolling the dice. And they're some expensive dice to roll.
Note that Joe@CPR and similar are adding extra fuel delivery (though not sure about the in-tank portion).
(Note: All the tuning was performed on E85 fuel with a 57 percent mixture.)
Read more: http://gmauthority.com/blog/2015/08/...#ixzz3unJY4Xia
32% fuel lobe; I thought this worked out
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...and-video.html
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Burning Brakes
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 1,176
Likes: 128
From: DFW Texas
There are some issues related specifically to fuel delivery on a C7 that makes E85 not really a viable option when you are talking about pushing the envelope on HP on a C7, at least currently.....
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
Example: AMP with an F1X was able to push BOOSTEDTV's C7 Z06corvette to over a 1000 RWHP on boost only but with the STOCK fuel system. That SAME F1X on White Lightnings C6 corvette makes over 1400 RWHP using of course an AFTERMARKET fuel system.
Since you have to push 30-35% more fuel to an engine if you use E85, it makes the fuel delivery issues even more problematic at the higher HP levels. So if more octane is needed, the current solution is to use race gas NOT E85 on a C7.
It is just a matter of time of course before vendors start coming up with a better fuel system for the C7's but they will have to be designed to be E85 friendly. GM has done some pretty tricky things with the ECMs on the LT4's and LT1's so it makes it more difficult to tune and to integrate aftermarket products to a certain extent.
On a personal note, my F1R Camaro did about 7 MPG on E85 compared to about 11 MPG on 93 on my LS3 so I was seeing MORE than a 30% decrease in mileage. Of course I didn't really give a **** since it made over a 1000 RWHP LOL. The LT1 and LT4 technology with direct injection is much more efficient though so I would suspect the gas mileage there to be MUCH better.
AMP is doing my car now--parts are being ordered and others sent to machine shops. The E85 will net a little more but you are correct that the factory fuel delivery system can only be modified so much.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 426
Likes: 79
From: Colorado
I know it an older thread and I've been having a hard time finding more info online.
Right now I'm running an A&A setup SC. Dynoed at 550 rwhp. Only pushing 5.14 lbs. (Conservative tune) I was thinking about doing the E85 flex fuel kit since in Colorado many gas stations have it. My goal was to go full E85 just without upgrading the fuel system. I keep seeing mixed opinions..some say the stock FS can handle it, others say it can't. My goal is 650 to 680rwhp. Would it work?
Right now I'm running an A&A setup SC. Dynoed at 550 rwhp. Only pushing 5.14 lbs. (Conservative tune) I was thinking about doing the E85 flex fuel kit since in Colorado many gas stations have it. My goal was to go full E85 just without upgrading the fuel system. I keep seeing mixed opinions..some say the stock FS can handle it, others say it can't. My goal is 650 to 680rwhp. Would it work?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 8,788
Likes: 164
From: Beaverton OR
Auxillary radiator - 100oct tune - Warranty!?
Last edited by johnglenntwo; Sep 14, 2017 at 11:59 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 208
Likes: 25
You will need the flex fuel sensor (400$). Yes you're going to need a tune. Most people do meth at the same time, they benefit one another nicely and produce nice gains for the cost. I recommend it.
