Bleeding Clutch Fluid
Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 422
From: NY
Bleeding Clutch Fluid
Can't find the thread of this, so am asking the question again. Just read what GM says we need to do to bleed the clutch fluid, and I have no interest in removing the left side catalytic converter. Have read about speed bleeders and that seems like a good choice. Another thread said just to replace the fluid in the canister, pump the clutch 20 - 30 times and continue to replace the fluid until it is clear/not dirty. What do the experts suggest? Thanks. Frank
Drifting
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 1,593
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From: Altamonte Spgs Florida
Cruise-In I Veteran
Cruise-In II Veteran
The method of repeatedly changing the fluid at the reservoir and pumping the pedal is referred to as the "Ranger Method" after a Forum member came up with the method during the early 2000's to deal with C5 clutch problems. I've been using the "Ranger" method for clutch fluid replacement every 10k miles on my last 4 corvettes with excellent results. This method works great and is much less intrusive than bleeding.
Search "Ranger method clutch fluid" for many threads and testimonials.
Also see : http://netwelding.com/Clutch_Fluid.pdf where one of our members gives more detail and a How-To on the Ranger method.
Search "Ranger method clutch fluid" for many threads and testimonials.
Also see : http://netwelding.com/Clutch_Fluid.pdf where one of our members gives more detail and a How-To on the Ranger method.
Last edited by Paul R; Dec 28, 2015 at 08:55 AM. Reason: add netwelding reference
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,062
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From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
A speed bleeder is usually the best way to change the fluid as the Ranger method doesn't really flush the slave cylinder. On my C6Z I could hook up a vacuum source to my remote bleeder and pull new fluid from the reservoir through the slave in a matter of minutes. When the fluid coming out of the bleeder was clear I knew the slave was flushed.
Bill
Bill
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,398
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The question is weather it removes the heaviest and grittiest deposits from way down in the slave cylinder cavity. The ranger method depends totally on debris being suspended in the fluid and replacing fluid until no suspended particles are visible by using the small amount of "backpressure" and "backwash" associated with actuating the clutch. This method of flushing is bidirectional and has clean fluid and dirty fluid passing each other moving in opposite directions. Again much better than doing nothing. But this is not the same as flushing fluid through the system under pressure and "washing" all of the lines and system components with clean new fluid that flows through the system with velocity and out of the bleed valve in one direction of flow.
This method is one directional and has a better chance of dislodging and moving debris through and out of the system.
Its not that difficult to drain the system by the book, especially if you have a lift. Probably takes an additional 30-45 minutes as compared to the ranger method.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 309
If you ever have your car apart there is a remote bleeder which consists of flexible braided steel tubing with a speed bleeder on the end of it which will make bleeding the slave cylinder a snap and you will thank yourself for having it installed. I tried bleeding it as per the service manual instructions once and gave up and resorted to the ranger method.
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,741
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From: AZ
If you ever have your car apart there is a remote bleeder which consists of flexible braided steel tubing with a speed bleeder on the end of it which will make bleeding the slave cylinder a snap and you will thank yourself for having it installed. I tried bleeding it as per the service manual instructions once and gave up and resorted to the ranger method.
. I tried to get my slim arms up around the (C6 Z06) exhaust and bellhousing to reach the bleed screw and was not able to reach it. As far as I've seen, only one forum member claims to have been able to do the factory method of bleeding with everything in place. Many have indicated they could not access it without major hardware removal. Absent getting access, the range method seems to keep the fluid clean for 2-3 months. If the headers get pulled or you have to have clutch work done, that would be the time to do the remote bleeder.
Last edited by AzDave47; Dec 28, 2015 at 11:49 AM.
Race Director
Joined: Jan 2014
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From: Fulshear, TX
Anyone happen to know what the average charge at the dealership for a clutch fluid flush is? I was planning on just having them do it while I'm in for my 4th and final free oil change...but maybe not if it's going to be a couple hours worth of labor.
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Thread Starter
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,041
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From: NY
Thanks everyone. Seems like a remote bleeder is the best solution, though is hard to install on the C7 Z06. Absent that, the Ranger Method is the best alternative. Like Kracka, I am interested to know what a dealer would charge to do this. Frank
Race Director
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,741
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From: AZ
For you C7 Z owners, did your clutch fluid come from the factory pitch black like many of the C6 Z06's? Does the clutch fluid discolor fairly quickly like it did on the C6's?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,813
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
A speed bleeder is usually the best way to change the fluid as the Ranger method doesn't really flush the slave cylinder. On my C6Z I could hook up a vacuum source to my remote bleeder and pull new fluid from the reservoir through the slave in a matter of minutes. When the fluid coming out of the bleeder was clear I knew the slave was flushed.
Bill
Bill
SUBVETTE
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,841
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From: San Diego CA
Correct answer. The Ranger method is pretty much useless because it does not flush the slave. I hope everybody realizes this by now. The misinformation about the Ranger method is mind boggling. Crud from the slave does not flow back up into the reservoir. Does not and will not. Clean fluid in the reservoir is just clean fluid in the reservoir.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,398
Likes: 858
Mostly from the deterioration of the seals on the master cylinder plunger which is only a few inches down stream of the reservoir. If you think about it this makes sense because most failures are the master cylinder vs the slave cylinder. Or said another way the master fails more frequently than the slave and is closer to the reservoir thus its fair to assume the majority of the debris in the reservoir is from the master.
SUBVETTE
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,841
Likes: 93
From: San Diego CA
Mostly from the deterioration of the seals on the master cylinder plunger which is only a few inches down stream of the reservoir. If you think about it this makes sense because most failures are the master cylinder vs the slave cylinder. Or said another way the master fails more frequently than the slave and is closer to the reservoir thus its fair to assume the majority of the debris in the reservoir is from the master.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,813
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From: Toronto Ontario Canada
I tend to believe what is shown in Ranger's video, and verified by his lab analysis - that the source of the particulate matter turning the fluid black is clutch dust getting past the slave seals and into the fluid. Obviously seal damage can occur if that particulate matter is left to build. But keeping the reservoir clean is the next best thing to bleeding the slave. I've had success with ten years of following the Ranger Method on my C6 and am a great believer. A remote bleeder would be preferred, but short of that I practice this method.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,398
Likes: 858
I tend to believe what is shown in Ranger's video, and verified by his lab analysis - that the source of the particulate matter turning the fluid black is clutch dust getting past the slave seals and into the fluid. Obviously seal damage can occur if that particulate matter is left to build. But keeping the reservoir clean is the next best thing to bleeding the slave. I've had success with ten years of following the Ranger Method on my C6 and am a great believer. A remote bleeder would be preferred, but short of that I practice this method.
Glad the ranger method exist and hard to argue with lab results or real world results. I do however find it difficult to believe much clutch dust is getting by the swiper and a seal pressurized at 1200+ PSI without any sign of leakage.
Turn 12!
Joined: Jan 2008
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From: The Beach
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
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You are very mistaken when you say "keeping the reservoir clean is the next best thing to bleeding the slave". It is not even close. The fact that you have been doing this for 10 years does not indicate it is working. If you did absolutely nothing you would likely have the same result. I discussed this issue with a GM engineer some years ago. Fluid change in the reservoir is cosmetic only. His exact words. This constant quest for clear fluid in the reservoir can be a problem since every time you remove the cap you can introduce moisture into the system. Clutch fluid is hydroscopic and absorbs moisture from the air. GM even put out a service bulletin warning not to remove the cap. I don't know why you guys spend so much for a car and then refuse to correctly replace the fluid every couple of years for a few hundred dollars.
I have to disagree with your engineer friend. If you watch the fluid reservoir when the clutch is released, there is a spurt of fluid coming up from the fluid line. When you replace the fluid in the reservoir then pump the clutch a few times, the fluid in the reservoir starts discoloring again. If there were no mixing why would this happen?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,813
Likes: 287
From: Toronto Ontario Canada
I would be willing to bet that a significant percentage of the clutch bleeds performed by dealerships are secretly performed Ranger fluid replacements.
I have to disagree with your engineer friend. If you watch the fluid reservoir when the clutch is released, there is a spurt of fluid coming up from the fluid line. When you replace the fluid in the reservoir then pump the clutch a few times, the fluid in the reservoir starts discoloring again. If there were no mixing why would this happen?
I have to disagree with your engineer friend. If you watch the fluid reservoir when the clutch is released, there is a spurt of fluid coming up from the fluid line. When you replace the fluid in the reservoir then pump the clutch a few times, the fluid in the reservoir starts discoloring again. If there were no mixing why would this happen?
Last edited by b4i4getit; Dec 29, 2015 at 10:09 AM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Arkansas
St. Jude Donor '09 thru '17,'22 thru '26
I tend to believe what is shown in Ranger's video, and verified by his lab analysis - that the source of the particulate matter turning the fluid black is clutch dust getting past the slave seals and into the fluid. Obviously seal damage can occur if that particulate matter is left to build. But keeping the reservoir clean is the next best thing to bleeding the slave. I've had success with ten years of following the Ranger Method on my C6 and am a great believer. A remote bleeder would be preferred, but short of that I practice this method.
It has worked for me for many years. I'm sure flushing is better but not worth the trouble for me. Maybe if you track your car it would be. There's always naysayers.