Another boring Z06 intake+tune+E85 dyno thread
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2006
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jbsblown has a Haltech on his so we'll do a similar test later when I help him with his tuning. I'm curious also. Based on my initial analysis though the result should be the same. Where the Haltech might shine is with a more stock like MAF scaling since it's more of a round tube/filter. So that would make tuning easier. But we'll see.
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Joined: Aug 2015
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From: Long Island NY
Thanks Terry for this analysis. It is really helpful.
Only problem is that many people, including myself will not be tuning the car in fear of losing the warranty. The reason why intakes pick up more hp on stock tune is probably mostly due to leaner AFR due to higher airflow, as you've already stated. Since you've tuned your car now it's not losing as much power run after run and intake benefit is reduced.
I wonder how the '17 will react to intakes since it probably already has a more aggressive tune.
Only problem is that many people, including myself will not be tuning the car in fear of losing the warranty. The reason why intakes pick up more hp on stock tune is probably mostly due to leaner AFR due to higher airflow, as you've already stated. Since you've tuned your car now it's not losing as much power run after run and intake benefit is reduced.
I wonder how the '17 will react to intakes since it probably already has a more aggressive tune.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
Just asked this on the HP Tuners forum but maybe someone here knows. Kicking myself for not finding and zering out this table while I had it strapped down. Next time! Is there a known issue with Cylinder 1 knocking or running hot?
Originally Posted by TerryBurger
Trying to track down a random midrange knock issue in my 2016 Z06 running E30 fuel. It's stock boost and stock timing down low so I did not expect much timing pull. Anyway I noticed the factory tune runs a static timing pull in cylinder 1. Could this just be what I'm seeing in logs? I'll zero out the table as a test next time I'm on the dyno to verify but hoping someone has come across this before.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
Thanks Terry for this analysis. It is really helpful.
Only problem is that many people, including myself will not be tuning the car in fear of losing the warranty. The reason why intakes pick up more hp on stock tune is probably mostly due to leaner AFR due to higher airflow, as you've already stated. Since you've tuned your car now it's not losing as much power run after run and intake benefit is reduced.
I wonder how the '17 will react to intakes since it probably already has a more aggressive tune.
Only problem is that many people, including myself will not be tuning the car in fear of losing the warranty. The reason why intakes pick up more hp on stock tune is probably mostly due to leaner AFR due to higher airflow, as you've already stated. Since you've tuned your car now it's not losing as much power run after run and intake benefit is reduced.
I wonder how the '17 will react to intakes since it probably already has a more aggressive tune.
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,646
Likes: 188
when scanning you need to view the spark table in a different format, your only scanning to 105kpa effectively not looking at spark in the boost Regions (factory car will be around 160kpa)
this is Ben C on hp tuners
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
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From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
This morning I zerod out the cyl1 built in retard and verified it's pulling clean now without much knock reported. Happy that is resolved. 
But I wonder why GM had it there? Is some sort of emissions system closer to cyl1 that needs to heat up? Shrug.
On the logging histogram display format you are right, it just lumps everything in the 105 row. I tried to change it to show spark airmass which is what the timing table is indexed on but after 2-3 min was not able to sort it. When I look at the logs on the dyno I normally scroll through the data points anyway. But I'll fix those histogram indexes soon as they should make tuning timing even easier.
But I wonder why GM had it there? Is some sort of emissions system closer to cyl1 that needs to heat up? Shrug.On the logging histogram display format you are right, it just lumps everything in the 105 row. I tried to change it to show spark airmass which is what the timing table is indexed on but after 2-3 min was not able to sort it. When I look at the logs on the dyno I normally scroll through the data points anyway. But I'll fix those histogram indexes soon as they should make tuning timing even easier.
Last edited by Terry@BMS; Nov 24, 2016 at 01:33 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,459
Likes: 18
From: Oviedo,FL. Las Vegas
Haha yes, same Terry Burger. In 2008 I started a company selling BMW tuning systems I designed and I've been doing that ever since. The Z06 is just a personal toy for fun. No plans to get back in to GM tuning other than helping friends, arguing on the forums, etc. I sold my C5s in 2005 when my wife got pregnant and I've been wanting another Vette ever since. The close out deals on 2016s were just too much for me to pass up. Plus, it makes a good race comparison car for all of our BMW tuning marketing.
Last edited by speedraider; Nov 24, 2016 at 02:00 PM.
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
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From: Texas Hill Country
This morning I zerod out the cyl1 built in retard and verified it's pulling clean now without much knock reported. Happy that is resolved. But I wonder why GM had it there? Is some sort of emissions system closer to cyl1 that needs to heat up? Shrug.
On the logging histogram display format you are right, it just lumps everything in the 105 row. I tried to change it to show spark airmass which is what the timing table is indexed on but after 2-3 min was not able to sort it. When I look at the logs on the dyno I normally scroll through the data points anyway. But I'll fix those histogram indexes soon as they should make tuning timing even easier.
But I wonder why GM had it there? Is some sort of emissions system closer to cyl1 that needs to heat up? Shrug.On the logging histogram display format you are right, it just lumps everything in the 105 row. I tried to change it to show spark airmass which is what the timing table is indexed on but after 2-3 min was not able to sort it. When I look at the logs on the dyno I normally scroll through the data points anyway. But I'll fix those histogram indexes soon as they should make tuning timing even easier.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 10
From: Anaheim Ca
would like to talk to you......
[
I would like to speak with you about the Z06 and % of ethanol.
I am in SoCal and drag race my car quite a bit.
Is there an email address or a preferred phone # and day/time I could call?
If you want to send me an email at Cp-Carrillo where I work my email is
eurcis@cp-carrillo.com . I am there M-F from 8-5 but will be at Pomona
this Thur through Sunday working at the Winternationals.
Ed
I would like to speak with you about the Z06 and % of ethanol.
I am in SoCal and drag race my car quite a bit.
Is there an email address or a preferred phone # and day/time I could call?
If you want to send me an email at Cp-Carrillo where I work my email is
eurcis@cp-carrillo.com . I am there M-F from 8-5 but will be at Pomona
this Thur through Sunday working at the Winternationals.
Ed
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 10
From: Anaheim Ca
E30
I installed the flex fuel sensor and the wire to the ECM on my own.
I took the car to "my guy" who told me he put in the tables for the ethanol. I then put in E35 fuel and we logged some runs.He was logging fuel rail pressure to see if E35 was safe. In 4th gear the power was nosing over, and the rail pressure was way below 2000 lbs.Next we tried E30 and it was still loosing power but had about 2200 lbs pressure.With E25 it runs great, and has around 2600 lbs. He had to remove a little bit of ignition timing for the E25 tune compared to the unleaded 100 octane tune I had used (I wanted to use an EXX fuel as it is a lot less expensive than the $9.00 a gallon unleaded I had tried).
I have a CAI, 10% lower supercharger pulley,and a 160* thermostat, all else stock.
Any ideas why I can't run over E25 fuel?
Ed
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
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From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
The fueling limit isn't anything I have experience with on this platform. Did you monitor low fuel pressure? Perhaps you have a weaker lower pressure pump or clogged filter?
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 97
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From: Anaheim Ca
I have asked some vendors and was told I need a better low pressure system, others say I need a camshaft with bigger fuel lobes and/or a modified fuel pump or a new ($1500.00) hi volume pump.Another says it is just a matter of proper tuning of the injector cycles and such (but maybe I will also need their modified fuel pump).
I have monitored the hi pressure fuel rail pressure, and the greater % ethanol I run the lower the fuel rail pressure. My Dodge Cummins also has a low and hi pressure side to the fuel system, and as long as the low side has at least something above 0 the hi pressure side will keep the proper amount of fuel rail pressure.I confirmed this scenario with a manufacture of racing fuel pumps and parts, and they say I should concentrate on the hi pressure side as long as the low pressure side has something like 1/2 the pressure it does at no load.So I guess I need to start with a low side test ( because it is fairly simple) and go from there.
May I ask where you sourced the table for the flex fuel sensor from?
I am thinking mine may need to be adjusted or changed, as you seem to have no issues with E30, but I do.
Ed
I have monitored the hi pressure fuel rail pressure, and the greater % ethanol I run the lower the fuel rail pressure. My Dodge Cummins also has a low and hi pressure side to the fuel system, and as long as the low side has at least something above 0 the hi pressure side will keep the proper amount of fuel rail pressure.I confirmed this scenario with a manufacture of racing fuel pumps and parts, and they say I should concentrate on the hi pressure side as long as the low pressure side has something like 1/2 the pressure it does at no load.So I guess I need to start with a low side test ( because it is fairly simple) and go from there.
May I ask where you sourced the table for the flex fuel sensor from?
I am thinking mine may need to be adjusted or changed, as you seem to have no issues with E30, but I do.
Ed
Race Director
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From: Texas Hill Country
its in the tune, and not the flex tables.
I also have a cai, pulley, stat, and headers and can run up to E50 or so at 6ms pulse width but typically keep it to E35-40 so I can run 4.8.
There is nothing to gain for you from E30 to E85 except run lean.
I also have a cai, pulley, stat, and headers and can run up to E50 or so at 6ms pulse width but typically keep it to E35-40 so I can run 4.8.
There is nothing to gain for you from E30 to E85 except run lean.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
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From: Texas Hill Country
you need bigger injectors that can inject more fuel in that small window.
without bigger injectors they will lengthen the spray time further and further until the fuel rails lose pressure and then the low side loses pressure too.
you can install a low side and keep that pressure up. you can install a cam lobe to help keep the high side pressure up. then you still have the injector issue and end up needing meth like everyone else.