Another boring Z06 intake+tune+E85 dyno thread
Racer
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 380
Likes: 33
Yeah I keep forgetting about the injector size and window of opportunity to spray (soi). I'm going to go the bolt on route (halltech, exhuast -no headers but 4 cats deleted) 160 stat, 18% lower, 103mm TB, ported blower/snout, low side fuel system but no meth) so I'm not sure what my max ethanol content will be but hopefully it makes some good power.
Racer
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 487
Likes: 82
From: Los Angeles California
Haha yes, same Terry Burger. In 2008 I started a company selling BMW tuning systems I designed and I've been doing that ever since. The Z06 is just a personal toy for fun. No plans to get back in to GM tuning other than helping friends, arguing on the forums, etc. I sold my C5s in 2005 when my wife got pregnant and I've been wanting another Vette ever since. The close out deals on 2016s were just too much for me to pass up. Plus, it makes a good race comparison car for all of our BMW tuning marketing. 
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,130
Likes: 33
Yeah I keep forgetting about the injector size and window of opportunity to spray (soi). I'm going to go the bolt on route (halltech, exhuast -no headers but 4 cats deleted) 160 stat, 18% lower, 103mm TB, ported blower/snout, low side fuel system but no meth) so I'm not sure what my max ethanol content will be but hopefully it makes some good power.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,708
Likes: 83
From: Arkansas
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 97
Likes: 10
From: Anaheim Ca
Thanks for the information Higgs
it doesn't really work like that. you run out of time to inject between exhaust valve close event and spark.
you need bigger injectors that can inject more fuel in that small window.
without bigger injectors they will lengthen the spray time further and further until the fuel rails lose pressure and then the low side loses pressure too.
you can install a low side and keep that pressure up. you can install a cam lobe to help keep the high side pressure up. then you still have the injector issue and end up needing meth like everyone else.
you need bigger injectors that can inject more fuel in that small window.
without bigger injectors they will lengthen the spray time further and further until the fuel rails lose pressure and then the low side loses pressure too.
you can install a low side and keep that pressure up. you can install a cam lobe to help keep the high side pressure up. then you still have the injector issue and end up needing meth like everyone else.
Are your comments pertaining to a ZO6, or a LT-1 ?
Ed
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
the more air you flow, the less room you have. You can run E75 or so on a stock Z06. As you increase power through airflow that number goes down.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
Likes: 224
From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
Took way longer than I wanted to get the prototypes in. It's sort of a slow process as each change needs to be 3D printed, assembled, flow tested, and then you tweak and repeat several times until you get what you want.
Anyway finally happy with the results on the flow bench. What we've come with is a dry (no-oiled) drop in filter that will not throw off the MAF readings (which result in a leaner AFR and higher timing advanced than tuned for) and significantly outflows other drops in on the market. I'm hopefully based on flow testing we'll find dyno performance similar to aftermarket intakes which have been properly tuned for to run safe AFR and timing values. Only without the need for special tuning.
The OEM intake piping actually is huge and has almost no restriction at all. The problem with the OEM intake especially at higher flow levels is with the filter itself and how it mates to the OEM piping. The rubber filter bases are molded so large they constrict airflow. To solve this we've come up with a much higher flowing base that is still a direct fit to the OEM airbox unmodified. Also reworked the filter pleating depth, material, and some other aspects to further reduce restriction.
In doing that we identified some further areas for improvement by modifying the factory airbox. So I'll be dyno testing two versions. An unmodified airbox with the new drop in, a modified airbox with the drop in+ version, stock, and of course the AFE intake.
Anyway finally happy with the results on the flow bench. What we've come with is a dry (no-oiled) drop in filter that will not throw off the MAF readings (which result in a leaner AFR and higher timing advanced than tuned for) and significantly outflows other drops in on the market. I'm hopefully based on flow testing we'll find dyno performance similar to aftermarket intakes which have been properly tuned for to run safe AFR and timing values. Only without the need for special tuning.
The OEM intake piping actually is huge and has almost no restriction at all. The problem with the OEM intake especially at higher flow levels is with the filter itself and how it mates to the OEM piping. The rubber filter bases are molded so large they constrict airflow. To solve this we've come up with a much higher flowing base that is still a direct fit to the OEM airbox unmodified. Also reworked the filter pleating depth, material, and some other aspects to further reduce restriction.
In doing that we identified some further areas for improvement by modifying the factory airbox. So I'll be dyno testing two versions. An unmodified airbox with the new drop in, a modified airbox with the drop in+ version, stock, and of course the AFE intake.
Last edited by Terry@BMS; Apr 6, 2017 at 03:22 PM.
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Leeds.io
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,604
Likes: 409
From: White Mountains
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
What's the ETA? The Green filter just arrived at my door and maybe I shouldn't open the box. 
p.s. As someone who has had his fair share of CAI headaches I'd be more than happy to test and review.
p.s. As someone who has had his fair share of CAI headaches I'd be more than happy to test and review.
Thread Starter
Former Vendor
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
Likes: 224
From: terry@burgertuning.com Simi Valley, CA
I don't want to share too much additional information on the drop in+ until I know how each setup performs on the dyno. It's possible the drop in alone will provide adequate flow for 630whp or whatever eliminating the need for the drop in+. But on the flow bench minor (outwardly invisible) tweaks to the airbox which anyone could do at home in 15 min did provide a significant reduction in restriction.
Last edited by Terry@BMS; Apr 6, 2017 at 03:27 PM.
Leeds.io
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,604
Likes: 409
From: White Mountains
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I don't want to share too much additional information on the drop in+ until I know how each setup performs on the dyno. It's possible the drop in alone will provide adequate flow for 630whp or whatever eliminating the need for the drop in+. But on the flow bench minor (outwardly invisible) tweaks to the airbox which anyone could do at home in 15 min did provide a significant reduction in restriction.
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,332
Likes: 267
From: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Are your flow number through just the filter or through the complete intake system to include the Intake pipe, MAF, Screen and Filter?
Took way longer than I wanted to get the prototypes in. It's sort of a slow process as each change needs to be 3D printed, assembled, flow tested, and then you tweak and repeat several times until you get what you want.
Anyway finally happy with the results on the flow bench. What we've come with is a dry (no-oiled) drop in filter that will not throw off the MAF readings (which result in a leaner AFR and higher timing advanced than tuned for) and significantly outflows other drops in on the market. I'm hopefully based on flow testing we'll find dyno performance similar to aftermarket intakes which have been properly tuned for to run safe AFR and timing values. Only without the need for special tuning.
The OEM intake piping actually is huge and has almost no restriction at all. The problem with the OEM intake especially at higher flow levels is with the filter itself and how it mates to the OEM piping. The rubber filter bases are molded so large they constrict airflow. To solve this we've come up with a much higher flowing base that is still a direct fit to the OEM airbox unmodified. Also reworked the filter pleating depth, material, and some other aspects to further reduce restriction.
In doing that we identified some further areas for improvement by modifying the factory airbox. So I'll be dyno testing two versions. An unmodified airbox with the new drop in, a modified airbox with the drop in+ version, stock, and of course the AFE intake.
Anyway finally happy with the results on the flow bench. What we've come with is a dry (no-oiled) drop in filter that will not throw off the MAF readings (which result in a leaner AFR and higher timing advanced than tuned for) and significantly outflows other drops in on the market. I'm hopefully based on flow testing we'll find dyno performance similar to aftermarket intakes which have been properly tuned for to run safe AFR and timing values. Only without the need for special tuning.
The OEM intake piping actually is huge and has almost no restriction at all. The problem with the OEM intake especially at higher flow levels is with the filter itself and how it mates to the OEM piping. The rubber filter bases are molded so large they constrict airflow. To solve this we've come up with a much higher flowing base that is still a direct fit to the OEM airbox unmodified. Also reworked the filter pleating depth, material, and some other aspects to further reduce restriction.
In doing that we identified some further areas for improvement by modifying the factory airbox. So I'll be dyno testing two versions. An unmodified airbox with the new drop in, a modified airbox with the drop in+ version, stock, and of course the AFE intake.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 774
Likes: 91
Got mine turned up to 3 o'clock for 8,000 miles on 93 octane...runs great on my 650IX... slaps C7's around all day, thanks!
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
Likes: 16
From: Vermilion Ohio
Terry, By the looks of your excellent photos showing from inside of the filter, you are maintaining the screen? I know it helps straighten the air flow, but I also know on a roots blower application, when used between the inlet side and the injector hat (or carbs), it adds a 30% airflow restriction. What are your thoughts on the stock screen?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 774
Likes: 91
Terry, By the looks of your excellent photos showing from inside of the filter, you are maintaining the screen? I know it helps straighten the air flow, but I also know on a roots blower application, when used between the inlet side and the injector hat (or carbs), it adds a 30% airflow restriction. What are your thoughts on the stock screen?
Advanced
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 58
Likes: 16
From: Vermilion Ohio
Let me rephrase that. The over the counter screens available for roots style 6-71 and/or 8-71 blowers, reduce the available square inch area of the supercharger inlet opening by 30%. Not sure what it is for the C7 Z06, that's why I asked Terry the question.
Last edited by speedsquad; Apr 7, 2017 at 06:10 PM.
Safety Car
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,231
Likes: 451
From: Maryland
$.02
I think Terry is talking about screen removal and some trimming in the area of the plastic that the screen is attached to. I have not looked at the OEM cai in a while so I may look it over again. Oh, really not sure at all, I will have to take a look but there may be something that can be done to open the space up around the outside of the air filter some too.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; Apr 7, 2017 at 11:57 PM.