Let's talk Ported TP, X-pipe, CAI/filter with NO TUNE
03-31-2017, 10:23 PM
#21
Safety Car
I have the AFE which I installed the blue "High Flow" air filter at first but did not have a ported TB or an aftermarket X-pipe at the time and it did not throw a code running 93 octane. However the car ran best down the 1/4 mile using the AFE "Low Flow" gray filter that was also supplied with the CAI. 
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 03-31-2017 at 10:26 PM.
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george vee (03-31-2017)
04-01-2017, 12:51 AM
#22
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
VERY good point.....
VERY good point..... While the old K&N oiled filter idea always seemed to be a great idea.....
Most of us tuners (and consumers) now know that they are a really bad idea.
Pretty much everyone now offers DRY filters because the MAF is "THAT SENSITIVE" and extremely important to the
way a GM engine and trans work.... Sucking oil off the filter gause and letting it settle on the tiny MAF sensor wire
only causes it to attract dirt and debris the same way the filter material captures dust....
And for what it's worth the little CLEAN very sensitive wire starts to look like a CORN DOG at 7-11 with the crust all over it
and there should be no wonder why the ECM can't read or calculate fuel correctly and then the TRANSMISSION
misbehaves because it gets the wrong torque signal from the engine....
YES, all because of an OILED Air Filter..... That we all used to think was such a smart idea....
Thank you George for bringing that up.....
More people need to know how this stuff works to avoid problems.
Chuck CoW
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george vee (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 01:02 AM
#23
Safety Car
AFE & Halltech offer "oiled" high flow air filters. The Green filter I believe is also oiled and some other higher flow OEM replacements. Check the brand your interested in to see like that new "Blue" filter.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 04-01-2017 at 01:29 AM.
04-01-2017, 01:41 AM
#24
Safety Car
Wait, so the Green Filter(#7225) is an oiled filter? I just ordered one based on the recommendations of other members here thinking it would be OK to use on my new Z.
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Z0HS1CK (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 02:16 AM
#25
Safety Car
No worries.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 04-01-2017 at 02:33 AM.
04-01-2017, 11:54 AM
#26
Leeds.io
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
I am currently running the combo you refer to in your post.
Halltech intake
Corsa X-pipe
Mamo ported TB
Axleback exhaust
I posted not too long ago that I switched to the 2017 blower lid and on the dyno my car was reporting conditions which were too lean for my liking. I removed the intake to keep the 2017 lid but recently, as in last week, swapped the lid back to the stock 16 and put my Halltech back on. I intend to go back to the dyno soon to see how this combo reports. I've never had any issue and I run my car pretty hard, and I'm not talking about on the street hard like some people claim. If I dyno the car again and the air fuel is still 13+, the intake will come off for good and be sold.
Halltech intake
Corsa X-pipe
Mamo ported TB
Axleback exhaust
I posted not too long ago that I switched to the 2017 blower lid and on the dyno my car was reporting conditions which were too lean for my liking. I removed the intake to keep the 2017 lid but recently, as in last week, swapped the lid back to the stock 16 and put my Halltech back on. I intend to go back to the dyno soon to see how this combo reports. I've never had any issue and I run my car pretty hard, and I'm not talking about on the street hard like some people claim. If I dyno the car again and the air fuel is still 13+, the intake will come off for good and be sold.
I don't track my 15 Z A8 just like spirited driving. I'm not looking to tune my car either.
I did the Tony Mano TB and drove for a few hundred miles, I felt the the difference in throttle response and more power. I then did the Borla X pipe, a week later, car was definitely louder in sport mode and felt a bit stronger and nice and quiet without drone in touring, no drone in S or Track mode.
I then installed the AFE, a week after the X pipe, which comes with the high flow oiled filter and the lower flow dry filter. I installed the oiled filter, started the car and got a check engine light, code P228 and code P227 , barometric pressure sensors, no clue what that is since I'm new to this technology. Car was also running lean.
I reset the chk eng light and drove 100 miles and stopped at my dealer to get oil changed and NY inspection, car failed because of oxygen sensor reading. Drove home and installed my stock CAI and car now passed inspection after putting on 100 miles which help recalibrate the MAF sensor. Car showing no codes.
Today I reinstalled the AFE with the dry filter and got no codes and car was not running lean, well within parameters. I couldn't go for a spirited drive because its raining here but I will on Sunday and give you my views.
I did the Tony Mano TB and drove for a few hundred miles, I felt the the difference in throttle response and more power. I then did the Borla X pipe, a week later, car was definitely louder in sport mode and felt a bit stronger and nice and quiet without drone in touring, no drone in S or Track mode.
I then installed the AFE, a week after the X pipe, which comes with the high flow oiled filter and the lower flow dry filter. I installed the oiled filter, started the car and got a check engine light, code P228 and code P227 , barometric pressure sensors, no clue what that is since I'm new to this technology. Car was also running lean.
I reset the chk eng light and drove 100 miles and stopped at my dealer to get oil changed and NY inspection, car failed because of oxygen sensor reading. Drove home and installed my stock CAI and car now passed inspection after putting on 100 miles which help recalibrate the MAF sensor. Car showing no codes.
Today I reinstalled the AFE with the dry filter and got no codes and car was not running lean, well within parameters. I couldn't go for a spirited drive because its raining here but I will on Sunday and give you my views.
Gene,
I too would love to see actual data on the variables that affect how far you can lean out the car using the stock program before throwing a code. Loss of warranty from a tune is the one thing preventing me from diving in and going full tilt with bolt-ons (ported blower, mid-length headers, ported tb, x-pipe, exhaust, intake, pulley, and e85). I wish they were more mod friendly like Ford (or supported more factory performance upgrades like Ford). While I am not advocating fraud, I think GM has become too heavy handed re: dealing with mods. If DiabloTune was more flexible with these mods, I would buy their tuner as it would be nice to not face warranty denial for a simple checksum when the failure and modification may have nothing to do with each other.
I too would love to see actual data on the variables that affect how far you can lean out the car using the stock program before throwing a code. Loss of warranty from a tune is the one thing preventing me from diving in and going full tilt with bolt-ons (ported blower, mid-length headers, ported tb, x-pipe, exhaust, intake, pulley, and e85). I wish they were more mod friendly like Ford (or supported more factory performance upgrades like Ford). While I am not advocating fraud, I think GM has become too heavy handed re: dealing with mods. If DiabloTune was more flexible with these mods, I would buy their tuner as it would be nice to not face warranty denial for a simple checksum when the failure and modification may have nothing to do with each other.
Great thread! I currently run all of the mods (Except the ported TB) plus the TRIC. Im thinking I just want to go ahead and tune the car to get the the maximum impact/effect of the mods. Not too worried about what dealer will say. I had a Chuck Cow tune done on my C6Z with ZERO issues so I will probably go in the same direction and perhaps add a ported TB while Im at it.
To the OP: I don't think it's a good idea to put all kinds of bolt ons on a C7 (and especially the Z) and think that it's "OK" because it's
"ONLY BOLT ONS"..... While exhaust mods can add some power, they have little effect on the tuning when
compared to the potentially significant changes to the AFR and (for the automatic guys) the behavior of the trans
when changes are made to the intake or throttle body without logging and re-tuning as necessary.
With the cost of exhausts and even 5 and 600 dollar intakes now a days, the potential gains from those
mods is minimal, especially when not properly re-tuned and in my opinion hardly worth the trouble.
In other words, my suggestion would be to either TUNE THE CAR with NO MODS which will change it dramatically....
or bite the bullet and add the mods WITH the intention of tuning it.... I think you would be much better off
if the longevity and durability of the car was your concern. Secondly, if you're after performance, putting parts on the
car WITHOUT TUNING is silly because the potential gain is far less than the benefits of tuning alone.
I realize that there are always people that don't consider tuning for fear of warranty issues, but but quite realistically.....
Most of us in the business of tuning tune many more vehicles that are between 1-3 years new (and still warrantied)
than all of the vehicles out there that are OVER 3 years old and no longer warrantied.
In other words, our biggest customer base of "tuning customers" is for BRAN NEW cars.
Sadly too many people get freaked out over warranties and don't tune their cars when the vast majority of people
do it and there are virtually never ever and problems.
That's just my 2 cents.....
Chuck CoW
"ONLY BOLT ONS"..... While exhaust mods can add some power, they have little effect on the tuning when
compared to the potentially significant changes to the AFR and (for the automatic guys) the behavior of the trans
when changes are made to the intake or throttle body without logging and re-tuning as necessary.
With the cost of exhausts and even 5 and 600 dollar intakes now a days, the potential gains from those
mods is minimal, especially when not properly re-tuned and in my opinion hardly worth the trouble.
In other words, my suggestion would be to either TUNE THE CAR with NO MODS which will change it dramatically....
or bite the bullet and add the mods WITH the intention of tuning it.... I think you would be much better off
if the longevity and durability of the car was your concern. Secondly, if you're after performance, putting parts on the
car WITHOUT TUNING is silly because the potential gain is far less than the benefits of tuning alone.
I realize that there are always people that don't consider tuning for fear of warranty issues, but but quite realistically.....
Most of us in the business of tuning tune many more vehicles that are between 1-3 years new (and still warrantied)
than all of the vehicles out there that are OVER 3 years old and no longer warrantied.
In other words, our biggest customer base of "tuning customers" is for BRAN NEW cars.
Sadly too many people get freaked out over warranties and don't tune their cars when the vast majority of people
do it and there are virtually never ever and problems.
That's just my 2 cents.....
Chuck CoW
Chuck that's cool and all but that's not the point of the thread. I have a manual 10 second car with a 5 year 100k warranty that I daily drive. Personally I think it would be stupid of me to get rid of my warranty for some very small gains. The nature of this thread is finding out exactly how much we can reasonably safely push the car till we start getting into dangerous conditions or pulling too much timing. The X-pipe makes the car sound like it should have from the factory.
The Ported TB makes the throttle feel like it should have from the factory.
The CAI makes it pull like it should have from the factory.
Do all these things work together with the stock tune? It seems we will find out shortly.
There is little doubt (in my mind) that an aftermarket "OEM replacement" air filter like a K&N, etc., in the stock housing from any of the various manufacturers will not void the warranty but other stuff may cause issues.
Example: Now you go "modifying" the factory throttle body or the exhaust system by removing the factory x-pipe/rear cats or even changing the factory cold air intake system to one that has not received approval, then you "may" have a problem with GM covering a OEM warranty replacement. These "Bolt-on" are all connected to engine operation, right?
Example: Now you go "modifying" the factory throttle body or the exhaust system by removing the factory x-pipe/rear cats or even changing the factory cold air intake system to one that has not received approval, then you "may" have a problem with GM covering a OEM warranty replacement. These "Bolt-on" are all connected to engine operation, right?
I have the AFE which I installed the blue "High Flow" air filter at first but did not have a ported TB or an aftermarket X-pipe at the time and it did not throw a code running 93 octane. However the car ran best down the 1/4 mile using the AFE "Low Flow" gray filter that was also supplied with the CAI.
All the best,
Never tuning Gene
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george vee (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 01:10 PM
#27
Pro
I have BAD NEWS!!
Well, I have been running a Halltech CAI and torco with phenomenal results.. my car has been a best of 10.38 at 250DA +\-.
Also, my car dyno'd 591/635 at the wheels with this above combo.
Well, I decided to add the Mamo ported TB and the Borla X-pipe.. and took it straight to the same dyno to make sure the AFR was safe and to also see if there were any power gains..
The results: the car is now running too lean (on the stock tune) with these additional mods. These AFR readings are using a tailpipe sensor..which will typically read .2 +\- AFR points leaner than the pre-cat reading, which would actually be more accurate.
The tuner (dyno operator) stated that the car was losing some power due to being too lean.
Now, I'm gonna have to remove one or both of the mods, or get a tune :-( and compromise the GM warranty.
Red line=stock
Blue line=CAI and torco only
Orange line=Borla x-pipe, ported throttle body, CAI and torco.
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04-01-2017, 01:17 PM
#29
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Never tuning Gene...
There's a double space formatting option to the forum? Chuck that's cool and all but that's not the point of the thread. I have a manual 10 second car with a 5 year 100k warranty that I daily drive. Personally I think it would be stupid of me to get rid of my warranty for some very small gains. The nature of this thread is finding out exactly how much we can reasonably safely push the car till we start getting into dangerous conditions or pulling too much timing.
The X-pipe makes the car sound like it should have from the factory.
The Ported TB makes the throttle feel like it should have from the factory.
The CAI makes it pull like it should have from the factory.
Do all these things work together with the stock tune? It seems we will find out shortly.
You'll be fine. Most people are fine. I think the majority of the issues are when people re-oil it themselves and put too much on.
All the best,
Never tuning Gene
Chuck that's cool and all but that's not the point of the thread. I have a manual 10 second car with a 5 year 100k warranty that I daily drive. Personally I think it would be stupid of me to get rid of my warranty for some very small gains. The nature of this thread is finding out exactly how much we can reasonably safely push the car till we start getting into dangerous conditions or pulling too much timing. The X-pipe makes the car sound like it should have from the factory.
The Ported TB makes the throttle feel like it should have from the factory.
The CAI makes it pull like it should have from the factory.
Do all these things work together with the stock tune? It seems we will find out shortly.
You'll be fine. Most people are fine. I think the majority of the issues are when people re-oil it themselves and put too much on.
All the best,
Never tuning Gene
I have a neurological disorder that causes the double spacing. I'd prefer that you didn't tease or bully me about it.
For those so concerned about warranties, it strikes me as odd that you would roll the dice....Adding bolt ons
without any "tuning assistance or datalogging", hoping that the car will go faster.....AND HOPING IT WILL NEVER FAIL.
Seems that your ideology of "keeping my warranty" is in direct conflict with your actions....and mods.
Point being, while some (or more) bolt ons might be "safe" to a point.... "Hoping" nothing will fail as a result
of those innocent bolt ons is silly. The combo that works for stick cars...
The nature of this thread is finding out exactly how much we can reasonably safely push the car till we start getting into dangerous conditions or pulling too much timing.
Might just cause a trans failure in the A6 or A8.
Interested persons might read "Verifying Repairs: This is where we dropped the ball..." in
TRANSMISSION DIGEST Vol 36 #7 - March 2017.
The article talks about how the MAF directly effects the Transmission and a NEW MAF of a different brand caused
the trans to lose 30+psi of line pressure. Good read for guys interested in how these cars work.
Off to my SAFE SPACE where nobody will tease or taunt me....
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 04-01-2017 at 01:20 PM.
04-01-2017, 01:17 PM
#30
Pro
04-01-2017, 01:19 PM
#31
I think the combo of the ported TB with CAI may be so free flowing that it caused the car to run lean.
I have decided i am going to buy mods, install all at once with a tune! i feel like its the only propper way to do such things. I may throw the TB on by itself. But i will wait for all other mods until im ready for tuning.
I have decided i am going to buy mods, install all at once with a tune! i feel like its the only propper way to do such things. I may throw the TB on by itself. But i will wait for all other mods until im ready for tuning.
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Chuck CoW (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 02:58 PM
#32
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Well, I decided to add the Mamo ported TB and the Borla X-pipe.. and took it straight to the same dyno to make sure the AFR was safe and to also see if there were any power gains..
The results: the car is now running too lean (on the stock tune) with these additional mods. These AFR readings are using a tailpipe sensor..which will typically read .2 +\- AFR points leaner than the pre-cat reading, which would actually be more accurate.
The tuner (dyno operator) stated that the car was losing some power due to being too lean.
Now, I'm gonna have to remove one or both of the mods, or get a tune :-( and compromise the GM warranty.
The results: the car is now running too lean (on the stock tune) with these additional mods. These AFR readings are using a tailpipe sensor..which will typically read .2 +\- AFR points leaner than the pre-cat reading, which would actually be more accurate.
The tuner (dyno operator) stated that the car was losing some power due to being too lean.
Now, I'm gonna have to remove one or both of the mods, or get a tune :-( and compromise the GM warranty.
Most humans don't have the ability to see the infrared spectrum... or airflow thru an air intake...
It's not always about MORE or LESS air.... It's just simply how the MAF perceives it.
You can have a "bigger" air intake which flows MORE air and given the same volume flows thru it.... The air simply SLOWS DOWN.
The MAF and the PCM perceive this as LESS AIR.... So LESS FUEL is added..... LESS TORQUE is calculated by the pcm....
The engine runs LEAN and detonates..... and the TRANS SLIPS or FLAIRS because the pcm told the trans
that there was LESS TORQUE coming at it..... So the trans responds with longer shifts and less pressure.
Just because you changed your air filter....
C7's don't always open the throttle 100% when the driver wants it..... Largely because the engine achieves "WOT" at a lesser
throttle opening because WOT to the consumer (driver) and WOT to the PCM are different things..... The PCM is at WOT when
engine INTAKE PRESSURE is 100kpa (or zero vacuum) and the C7 can make 100kpa at 80% throttle opening so there is no need to
open the TB futher if it got what it wanted..... Opening the throttle 100% isn't necessary and can hurt performance.
Clearly, on a boosted C7 the ported TB can help.... but tuning is strongly advised to monitor what's happening.
Ported Throttle Bodies and not something I believe in as the perceived gains can cause other issues you might not be aware of.
Not spooking people into TUNING if they are against it.... BUT, 3 or 4 times a day I have this conversation
with people that call me with problems..... Especially the Auto Trans guys.
It seems not everyone is up on their engine management tech.... Even many tuners....
Chuck CoW
Last edited by Chuck CoW; 04-01-2017 at 03:07 PM.
04-01-2017, 03:24 PM
#33
Safety Car
What kind of issues can a ported TB cause? It seems like everyone on here who has done that mod said it made a noticeable difference in throttle response. How is that a bad thing?
04-01-2017, 03:28 PM
#34
Leeds.io
Thread Starter
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Location: Cross River, New York
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St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Well, I have been running a Halltech CAI and torco with phenomenal results.. my car has been a best of 10.38 at 250DA +\-.
Also, my car dyno'd 591/635 at the wheels with this above combo.
Well, I decided to add the Mamo ported TB and the Borla X-pipe.. and took it straight to the same dyno to make sure the AFR was safe and to also see if there were any power gains..
The results: the car is now running too lean (on the stock tune) with these additional mods. These AFR readings are using a tailpipe sensor..which will typically read .2 +\- AFR points leaner than the pre-cat reading, which would actually be more accurate.
The tuner (dyno operator) stated that the car was losing some power due to being too lean.
Now, I'm gonna have to remove one or both of the mods, or get a tune :-( and compromise the GM warranty.
Red line=stock
Blue line=CAI and torco only
Orange line=Borla x-pipe, ported throttle body, CAI and torco.
Also, my car dyno'd 591/635 at the wheels with this above combo.
Well, I decided to add the Mamo ported TB and the Borla X-pipe.. and took it straight to the same dyno to make sure the AFR was safe and to also see if there were any power gains..
The results: the car is now running too lean (on the stock tune) with these additional mods. These AFR readings are using a tailpipe sensor..which will typically read .2 +\- AFR points leaner than the pre-cat reading, which would actually be more accurate.
The tuner (dyno operator) stated that the car was losing some power due to being too lean.
Now, I'm gonna have to remove one or both of the mods, or get a tune :-( and compromise the GM warranty.
Red line=stock
Blue line=CAI and torco only
Orange line=Borla x-pipe, ported throttle body, CAI and torco.
I never had only the CAI and X-pipe. The CAI was never on the car without the pTB. Did you find the CAI to help a lot with the throttle response? It may sound crazy but if I had to decide I'd probably take the better throttle response over the increased power. In my experience with high HP cars you always eventually get used to the new HP.So what's next for you?
BTW for everyone playing along ACS55's car is a 2016.
Never tuning Gene...
I have a neurological disorder that causes the double spacing. I'd prefer that you didn't tease or bully me about it.
For those so concerned about warranties, it strikes me as odd that you would roll the dice....Adding bolt ons
without any "tuning assistance or datalogging", hoping that the car will go faster.....AND HOPING IT WILL NEVER FAIL.
Seems that your ideology of "keeping my warranty" is in direct conflict with your actions....and mods.
Point being, while some (or more) bolt ons might be "safe" to a point.... "Hoping" nothing will fail as a result
of those innocent bolt ons is silly. The combo that works for stick cars...
So, you are "finding out".....Exactly how? When you create a warranty situation??? and you yank off your bolt ons and presenmt the car to GM for warranty service?
Might just cause a trans failure in the A6 or A8.
Interested persons might read "Verifying Repairs: This is where we dropped the ball..." in
TRANSMISSION DIGEST Vol 36 #7 - March 2017.
The article talks about how the MAF directly effects the Transmission and a NEW MAF of a different brand caused
the trans to lose 30+psi of line pressure. Good read for guys interested in how these cars work.
Off to my SAFE SPACE where nobody will tease or taunt me....
Chuck CoW
I have a neurological disorder that causes the double spacing. I'd prefer that you didn't tease or bully me about it.
For those so concerned about warranties, it strikes me as odd that you would roll the dice....Adding bolt ons
without any "tuning assistance or datalogging", hoping that the car will go faster.....AND HOPING IT WILL NEVER FAIL.
Seems that your ideology of "keeping my warranty" is in direct conflict with your actions....and mods.
Point being, while some (or more) bolt ons might be "safe" to a point.... "Hoping" nothing will fail as a result
of those innocent bolt ons is silly. The combo that works for stick cars...
So, you are "finding out".....Exactly how? When you create a warranty situation??? and you yank off your bolt ons and presenmt the car to GM for warranty service?
Might just cause a trans failure in the A6 or A8.
Interested persons might read "Verifying Repairs: This is where we dropped the ball..." in
TRANSMISSION DIGEST Vol 36 #7 - March 2017.
The article talks about how the MAF directly effects the Transmission and a NEW MAF of a different brand caused
the trans to lose 30+psi of line pressure. Good read for guys interested in how these cars work.
Off to my SAFE SPACE where nobody will tease or taunt me....
Chuck CoW
My absolute sincerest apologies. In no way was I trying to tease you or taunt you. Honestly I just figured you did it to use more space on the page and make your post more visible in an attempt to drum up business. I had no idea it was due to any sort of issue. Again, my deepest apologies.
Moving on...While we all appreciate your knowledge your posts continue to not be productive towards the intent of the thread. ALL of us are aware that tuning the car is the best way to go for the car. However as we're humans and tend to err we are seeing how far we can push the envelope. This is what that thread is about. Note that ACS55 was running low 10s with CAI, Torco and no tune. His car is fine. He is fine. It's fine. I understand what you say about the automatic trannies and if I had one I would take that into considering but I have a manual. If I had started a thread asking about how to get my stock PSS tires to hook the best on the drag strip and you came in and said "get drag radials" yes you would be right but you also wouldn't be helping. Please for the sake of the thread stop highjacking it with the tuning conversation. If you want to start another thread about why someone should tune with mods I'm sure many would find it to be very insightful.
I think the combo of the ported TB with CAI may be so free flowing that it caused the car to run lean.
I have decided i am going to buy mods, install all at once with a tune! i feel like its the only propper way to do such things. I may throw the TB on by itself. But i will wait for all other mods until im ready for tuning.
I have decided i am going to buy mods, install all at once with a tune! i feel like its the only propper way to do such things. I may throw the TB on by itself. But i will wait for all other mods until im ready for tuning.
Back to the purpose of the thread it would seem there are a few options for the many of us with X-pipes on our car and other mods on or on order and don't want to tune.
1. Keep stock TB and use CAI.
2. Keep ported TB and use stock intake.
3. Above but with aftermarket filter.
4. AFE intake with low flow???? An obvious act of desperation after the recent reports.
George Vee how can we get you to test your car with a wideband on the dyno? FWIW my car is currently setup with #2 and is running like an absolute champ.
Last edited by phantasms; 04-01-2017 at 04:14 PM.
04-01-2017, 04:37 PM
#35
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St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Chuck,
My absolute sincerest apologies. In no way was I trying to tease you or taunt you. Honestly I just figured you did it to use more space on the page and make your post more visible in an attempt to drum up business. I had no idea it was due to any sort of issue. Again, my deepest apologies.
Moving on...While we all appreciate your knowledge your posts continue to not be productive towards the intent of the thread. ALL of us are aware that tuning the car is the best way to go for the car. However as we're humans and tend to err we are seeing how far we can push the envelope. This is what that thread is about. Note that ACS55 was running low 10s with CAI, Torco and no tune. His car is fine. He is fine. It's fine. I understand what you say about the automatic trannies and if I had one I would take that into considering but I have a manual. If I had started a thread asking about how to get my stock PSS tires to hook the best on the drag strip and you came in and said "get drag radials" yes you would be right but you also wouldn't be helping. Please for the sake of the thread stop highjacking it with the tuning conversation. If you want to start another thread about why someone should tune with mods I'm sure many would find it to be very insightful.
My absolute sincerest apologies. In no way was I trying to tease you or taunt you. Honestly I just figured you did it to use more space on the page and make your post more visible in an attempt to drum up business. I had no idea it was due to any sort of issue. Again, my deepest apologies.
Moving on...While we all appreciate your knowledge your posts continue to not be productive towards the intent of the thread. ALL of us are aware that tuning the car is the best way to go for the car. However as we're humans and tend to err we are seeing how far we can push the envelope. This is what that thread is about. Note that ACS55 was running low 10s with CAI, Torco and no tune. His car is fine. He is fine. It's fine. I understand what you say about the automatic trannies and if I had one I would take that into considering but I have a manual. If I had started a thread asking about how to get my stock PSS tires to hook the best on the drag strip and you came in and said "get drag radials" yes you would be right but you also wouldn't be helping. Please for the sake of the thread stop highjacking it with the tuning conversation. If you want to start another thread about why someone should tune with mods I'm sure many would find it to be very insightful.
(or at least I don't think I do...
)Please understand also, I have more than enough work that I don't need to "hijack" your thread to solicit business and I was not
trying to undermine your intelligence or "topic". My comments were not directed at or taunting you either.
Some regard me as an authority on this forum and look to me for advice and answers.
I have no problem with how you do what you do, and I do understand that you drive a stick....
But, please understand that there are many people reading what you write (and don't post in your thread) and can often
be mislead by the things they read and when I see opportunities to interject an opinion or clarification....
Please forgive me, but I take those liberties to try and help clarify things for the benefit of those that potentially
don't know what you know.
I can understand how an OP might occasionally be offended by my intrusion into your commentary, but
please understand that I'm not selling or showing off.... I have a 10+ year history of helping educate forum members
about these wonderful cars, and when I have the time to do so, I use the opportunity to help people out.
I'm sorry if you felt intruded upon, but that was not my intention.
Chuck CoW
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04-01-2017, 04:45 PM
#36
Leeds.io
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Cross River, New York
Posts: 4,594
Received 398 Likes
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239 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
No need for apologies... For anyone who knows me, I do not have a neurological disorder that causes the double spacing.
(or at least I don't think I do...)
Please understand also, I have more than enough work that I don't need to "hijack" your thread to solicit business and I was not
trying to undermine your intelligence or "topic". My comments were not directed at or taunting you either.
Some regard me as an authority on this forum and look to me for advice and answers.
I have no problem with how you do what you do, and I do understand that you drive a stick....
But, please understand that there are many people reading what you write (and don't post in your thread) and can often
be mislead by the things they read and when I see opportunities to interject an opinion or clarification....
Please forgive me, but I take those liberties to try and help clarify things for the benefit of those that potentially
don't know what you know.
I can understand how an OP might occasionally be offended by my intrusion into your commentary, but
please understand that I'm not selling or showing off.... I have a 10+ year history of helping educate forum members
about these wonderful cars, and when I have the time to do so, I use the opportunity to help people out.
I'm sorry if you felt intruded upon, but that was not my intention.
Chuck CoW
(or at least I don't think I do...
)Please understand also, I have more than enough work that I don't need to "hijack" your thread to solicit business and I was not
trying to undermine your intelligence or "topic". My comments were not directed at or taunting you either.
Some regard me as an authority on this forum and look to me for advice and answers.
I have no problem with how you do what you do, and I do understand that you drive a stick....
But, please understand that there are many people reading what you write (and don't post in your thread) and can often
be mislead by the things they read and when I see opportunities to interject an opinion or clarification....
Please forgive me, but I take those liberties to try and help clarify things for the benefit of those that potentially
don't know what you know.
I can understand how an OP might occasionally be offended by my intrusion into your commentary, but
please understand that I'm not selling or showing off.... I have a 10+ year history of helping educate forum members
about these wonderful cars, and when I have the time to do so, I use the opportunity to help people out.
I'm sorry if you felt intruded upon, but that was not my intention.
Chuck CoW
Last edited by phantasms; 04-01-2017 at 04:45 PM.
04-01-2017, 04:56 PM
#37
Safety Car
The system needs to be tuned to the ECM programing
It's the diameter of the OEM air tube that the MAF sensor and ECM is calibrated for, so if you install a better flowing air filter in the OEM air box the ECM will make the correct changes for the increased airflow.
I remember Halltech saying that the OEM setup without a filter flowed what their larger diameter tube intake system flowed with a filter. What I gathered from that is the stock setup with no filter is still metering correctly and would be making the safest power and calibrating the A8 trans correctly so you don't burn it up through slipping "AND" possibly more HP buy not running too lean due to incorrect air flow measurements. A larger tube flowing more air but at a slower speed past the MAF sensor makes the ECM think it's flowing less air so it gives the engine less fuel leaning the AFR.
I have not been keeping up with this stuff but I think Halltech and maybe AFE made some adjustments to their air tube diameter in the later models. The aftermarket CAI made more hp due to GM keeping the fuel curve on the rich (safe) side so a little leaning is a good thing but too lean and BOOM!
PS: There is a "new" OEM replacement high flow air filter in town.
It's blue and may outflow the green filter. I really don't know but I would check it out before buying which one flows the best.
I remember Halltech saying that the OEM setup without a filter flowed what their larger diameter tube intake system flowed with a filter. What I gathered from that is the stock setup with no filter is still metering correctly and would be making the safest power and calibrating the A8 trans correctly so you don't burn it up through slipping "AND" possibly more HP buy not running too lean due to incorrect air flow measurements. A larger tube flowing more air but at a slower speed past the MAF sensor makes the ECM think it's flowing less air so it gives the engine less fuel leaning the AFR.
I have not been keeping up with this stuff but I think Halltech and maybe AFE made some adjustments to their air tube diameter in the later models. The aftermarket CAI made more hp due to GM keeping the fuel curve on the rich (safe) side so a little leaning is a good thing but too lean and BOOM!
PS: There is a "new" OEM replacement high flow air filter in town.
It's blue and may outflow the green filter. I really don't know but I would check it out before buying which one flows the best.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 04-01-2017 at 05:48 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by C7/Z06 Man:
george vee (04-01-2017),
phantasms (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 05:15 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: North/Central NJ - a.k.a. Gotti in the CFNE section
Posts: 7,741
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St. Jude Donor '05
Gene,
I will be doing #3 on my 2017.
Mamo TB
borla x pipe
Green filter
The other guy who has a 2017 is running the same with no issues. The aftermarket filters add approx. .5 boost. I think filter with the other 2 is the best combo and the most you can do on stock tune.
I will be doing #3 on my 2017.
Mamo TB
borla x pipe
Green filter
The other guy who has a 2017 is running the same with no issues. The aftermarket filters add approx. .5 boost. I think filter with the other 2 is the best combo and the most you can do on stock tune.
Last edited by Z0Sick6; 04-01-2017 at 05:17 PM.
The following users liked this post:
phantasms (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 05:21 PM
#39
Pro
Fascinating! Thank you very much for doing this. I can't say I'm terribly surprised. So what's your plan? Pull one or two of the three and which? This certainly explains how my car was acting last summer. Looks like I'll either be selling two ported TBs or a CAI and a pTB. Damn!
I never had only the CAI and X-pipe. The CAI was never on the car without the pTB. Did you find the CAI to help a lot with the throttle response? It may sound crazy but if I had to decide I'd probably take the better throttle response over the increased power. In my experience with high HP cars you always eventually get used to the new HP.So what's next for you?
BTW for everyone playing along ACS55's car is a 2016
1. Remove PTB and dyno it again to check AFR. Probably Wednesday.
Why? Because it's easy.
Did the PTB help with the "off idle hesitation"? It absolutely did.
Why not remove the x-pipe? Because it's more work on my back in the garage, and I'm curious to see which one is the largest culprit.
Which do I expect to be the largest culprit? Probably the X-Pipe.
Also, it may be interesting to note that I installed a wide band bung pre-cat in the LH lead pipe and I am working on getting it mounted and wired. I have read (and been told by the tuner today) that the AFR reading at the tailpipe is typically 0.5 points leaner at the tailpipe (than the more accurate reading at the pre-cat location). I have had another tuner on this forum flame 🔥 me for making this statement and it is his assertion that it is NEVER more that 0.2 points leaner. This is a valuable piece of information related to your current topic.
I am am more concerned with WOT power than throttle response, as my car was bought for drag strip action. Maybe this is another contributing reason why I'm hoping the PTB is the main culprit.
I am not completely ruling out a tune at this point.
Who is the best to use for tuning in Texas, not only for maximizing power, but more specifically for programming the A8 for maximum drag performance, anyone?
The following users liked this post:
phantasms (04-01-2017)
04-01-2017, 05:34 PM
#40
Leeds.io
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Cross River, New York
Posts: 4,594
Received 398 Likes
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239 Posts
St. Jude Donor '14-'15-'16
NCM Sinkhole Donor
Best,
Gene
Last edited by phantasms; 04-01-2017 at 05:35 PM.