Intake losing power over time?
04-30-2018, 06:02 PM
#1
Intake losing power over time?
I'm looking at buying an intake and running it for several months w/ no tune and no other mods. So right now, it's between the Halltech and the aFE.
My question is not which one to buy, it's about the ECU readjusting the car over time. People are claiming that the intake will show awesome gains at first but the car will revert back to stock power over time as the car adjusts to the new intake.
Is this true? Anyone dyno'ed their car several thousand miles down the line?
My question is not which one to buy, it's about the ECU readjusting the car over time. People are claiming that the intake will show awesome gains at first but the car will revert back to stock power over time as the car adjusts to the new intake.
Is this true? Anyone dyno'ed their car several thousand miles down the line?
04-30-2018, 06:38 PM
#3
Team Owner
No. 
04-30-2018, 07:20 PM
#4
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installing an intake that leans out the mixture and dynoing it immediately will show gains associated with increased airflow and also gains from leaner afr....
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
The following 2 users liked this post by Higgs Boson:
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king off the hill (01-03-2021)
04-30-2018, 07:38 PM
#5
Team Owner
installing an intake that leans out the mixture and dynoing it immediately will show gains associated with increased airflow and also gains from leaner afr....
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
So much for all that.
Some facts about the Halltech intake. I looked at my data LTFT's were very small like + 3
seems like not a lot.
I waited a few months about 7,000 miles after my install to find out I had 604 rwhp on the same dyno normal M7's do 550-560 rwhp.
My tuner didn't sell all of them but even the ones he didn't made the same power. At least 40 rwhp increase on every car he dyno'd
rwhp with a Halltech as the only mod. Tons of guys have them and they still run strong long after the install with no tune.
All I need to know is proven to me. Other's can think what they want.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 04-30-2018 at 07:46 PM.
04-30-2018, 07:57 PM
#6
It’s obvious that you did not fully digest what Higgs has explained, it’s ok, as long as everyone else got it. Believe it, cause it’s fact
John
John
The following 2 users liked this post by JHEBERT:
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04-30-2018, 08:17 PM
#7
Team Owner
I know the intakes and have two installed right now on two Z06's and also have at least 3 other friends that have them and that is not counting the 20 other forum friends I know that
have them and they all keep the gains.
My tuner knows them well too and he is hard to beat on a Corvette.
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 04-30-2018 at 08:19 PM.
04-30-2018, 08:47 PM
#8
The Consigliere
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installing an intake that leans out the mixture and dynoing it immediately will show gains associated with increased airflow and also gains from leaner afr....
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
Appreciate it.
05-01-2018, 12:43 AM
#9
Thanks for the replies, guys!
05-01-2018, 09:33 AM
#10
Safety Car
installing an intake that leans out the mixture and dynoing it immediately will show gains associated with increased airflow and also gains from leaner afr....
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
after driving and fuel trims learn the mixture back to stoichiometry at all different loads and rpms, trims will be adding fuel and carry that added fuel over to WOT fueling, effectively negating potential gains from being lean but should still keep the gains from increased CFM, if any.
some cars make more power richer rather than leaner so it may not apply, depending on where it started and where it ends up and if there is CatOverTemp enrichment, etc etc. my point is, the statement may not be false, but it is definitely not guaranteed or easy to observe, the cost of observation is far higher than the benefits of the information.
I've had the Halltech intake on for about two years now, I monitor my LTFT's and A/F CONTINOUSLY, and they haven't changed from day one. LTFT's are neg 1-2 at idle, rise to +3-+5 when cruising in closed loop, and my A/F was and still is slightly leaner than stock in open loop (.2-.5 leaner).
I guess my car must be stupid, it hasn't learned anything in two years.
05-01-2018, 11:08 AM
#11
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Nope.
I've had the Halltech intake on for about two years now, I monitor my LTFT's and A/F CONTINOUSLY, and they haven't changed from day one. LTFT's are neg 1-2 at idle, rise to +3-+5 when cruising in closed loop, and my A/F was and still is slightly leaner than stock in open loop (.2-.5 leaner).
I guess my car must be stupid, it hasn't learned anything in two years.
I've had the Halltech intake on for about two years now, I monitor my LTFT's and A/F CONTINOUSLY, and they haven't changed from day one. LTFT's are neg 1-2 at idle, rise to +3-+5 when cruising in closed loop, and my A/F was and still is slightly leaner than stock in open loop (.2-.5 leaner).
I guess my car must be stupid, it hasn't learned anything in two years.
The trims are added from the last trim cell before going WOT so if the trim happens to be -1 nothing happens, if trims are +5 then it carries over to WOT.
You might notice I did not mention any brand names of intakes in my post, don't be so quick to defend a product that is not under attack unless you are following the lead of one of the most mindless members of the forum....The Haltech, if I remember correctly, was designed with MAF placement to maintain small trims, which is nice...too bad it fits like ****.
How are you measuring your A/F at WOT in your car?
05-01-2018, 11:14 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
The only reason I can imagine it would "improve" power up front would be that it's running leaner, that the factory mix was rich, and that over time the block learns compensate to bring it back to a 'factory' mix, ie: rich.
Having lived through FMUs and fuel pressure monkey business and O2 compensators and so on, I'm not a big fan of lying to the ECM about fuel mixture. I'd rather the intake was properly tuned and calibrated and then make whatever mixture changes you want in the tune.
Having lived through FMUs and fuel pressure monkey business and O2 compensators and so on, I'm not a big fan of lying to the ECM about fuel mixture. I'd rather the intake was properly tuned and calibrated and then make whatever mixture changes you want in the tune.
05-01-2018, 12:12 PM
#13
Safety Car
If you have 5% fuel trims then it has learned to add 5% fuel....lol, I know you are smarter than that.
The trims are added from the last trim cell before going WOT so if the trim happens to be -1 nothing happens, if trims are +5 then it carries over to WOT.
You might notice I did not mention any brand names of intakes in my post, don't be so quick to defend a product that is not under attack unless you are following the lead of one of the most mindless members of the forum....The Haltech, if I remember correctly, was designed with MAF placement to maintain small trims, which is nice...too bad it fits like ****.
How are you measuring your A/F at WOT in your car?
The trims are added from the last trim cell before going WOT so if the trim happens to be -1 nothing happens, if trims are +5 then it carries over to WOT.
You might notice I did not mention any brand names of intakes in my post, don't be so quick to defend a product that is not under attack unless you are following the lead of one of the most mindless members of the forum....The Haltech, if I remember correctly, was designed with MAF placement to maintain small trims, which is nice...too bad it fits like ****.
How are you measuring your A/F at WOT in your car?
As for monitoring, I use the Interceptor gauge with a wideband O2.
05-01-2018, 12:21 PM
#14
Former Vendor
You'll make the same power gains with a BMS drop in filter for $89. 
In terms of fuel trim adaptions and learning out the "leaner" MAF readings intakes produce, in controlled testing I haven't found it to be an issue. If it was we would not see intake only dyno runs on cars with 1000s of miles post intake install dramatically leaner than stock. But, we do.
In terms of fuel trim adaptions and learning out the "leaner" MAF readings intakes produce, in controlled testing I haven't found it to be an issue. If it was we would not see intake only dyno runs on cars with 1000s of miles post intake install dramatically leaner than stock. But, we do.
Last edited by Terry@BMS; 05-01-2018 at 12:24 PM.
05-01-2018, 12:50 PM
#15
Safety Car
In terms of fuel trim adaptions and learning out the "leaner" MAF readings intakes produce, in controlled testing I haven't found it to be an issue. If it was we would not see intake only dyno runs on cars with 1000s of miles post intake install dramatically leaner than stock. But, we do.
05-01-2018, 01:32 PM
#16
Safety Car
I have seen the posts where people slow after a Superdo intake install.
I have seen people on here say that their car is now slower running an aftermarket CAI like the Halltech, etc. than before.
My track results running an aftermarket CAI i.e. the AFE-1 was wait for it.................................... I was slower too!!! UNTIL I REMOVED THE AFE BLUE "HIGH FLOW" FILTER & INSTALLED THEIR "LOW FLOW" DRY GRAY AIR FILTER! Then I picked up approx. 1 MPH and some ET in the 1/4 mile in similar weather conditions at the time. The other thing that I noticed even though there were a lot more Halltechs than AFEs was that there seem to be more AFEs in the 9 second zone than Halltechs.
My track results running an aftermarket CAI i.e. the AFE-1 was wait for it.................................... I was slower too!!! UNTIL I REMOVED THE AFE BLUE "HIGH FLOW" FILTER & INSTALLED THEIR "LOW FLOW" DRY GRAY AIR FILTER! Then I picked up approx. 1 MPH and some ET in the 1/4 mile in similar weather conditions at the time. The other thing that I noticed even though there were a lot more Halltechs than AFEs was that there seem to be more AFEs in the 9 second zone than Halltechs.
Last edited by C7/Z06 Man; 05-01-2018 at 01:36 PM.
05-01-2018, 02:37 PM
#17
Team Owner
If you have 5% fuel trims then it has learned to add 5% fuel....lol, I know you are smarter than that.
The trims are added from the last trim cell before going WOT so if the trim happens to be -1 nothing happens, if trims are +5 then it carries over to WOT.
You might notice I did not mention any brand names of intakes in my post, don't be so quick to defend a product that is not under attack unless you are following the lead of one of the most mindless members of the forum....The Haltech,
The trims are added from the last trim cell before going WOT so if the trim happens to be -1 nothing happens, if trims are +5 then it carries over to WOT.
You might notice I did not mention any brand names of intakes in my post, don't be so quick to defend a product that is not under attack unless you are following the lead of one of the most mindless members of the forum....The Haltech,
Since the stock cars run around with about the same fuel trims.
I agree the Halltech is a large airbox going in a tight space. But they definitely work well. PLUS THEY DO NOT LOSE POWER!
I was wondering which intake your speaking off since you thought don't apply to the Halltech!
05-01-2018, 03:08 PM
#18
You'll make the same power gains with a BMS drop in filter for $89.
In terms of fuel trim adaptions and learning out the "leaner" MAF readings intakes produce, in controlled testing I haven't found it to be an issue. If it was we would not see intake only dyno runs on cars with 1000s of miles post intake install dramatically leaner than stock. But, we do.
In terms of fuel trim adaptions and learning out the "leaner" MAF readings intakes produce, in controlled testing I haven't found it to be an issue. If it was we would not see intake only dyno runs on cars with 1000s of miles post intake install dramatically leaner than stock. But, we do.
*edit*
I knew your name was familiar. I used to own an E92 M3 years ago and you helped MANY 335is spank me hahahahah
Last edited by vettefordays; 05-01-2018 at 03:14 PM.
05-01-2018, 03:16 PM
#19
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I still have the BMS on the shelf, sold the Hal-Tech and I am running an AFE currently but have a whipple on the way, if I was staying with the stock blower or a Maggie 2.3 (which is basically a stock blower) the BMS would be what I run for sure.
05-01-2018, 03:17 PM
#20
I have had the Hal-Tech, AFE and BMS filter and I can vouch for the BMS as being well worth the $89 for great flow improvement and being able to keep the stock box and fitment.
I still have the BMS on the shelf, sold the Hal-Tech and I am running an AFE currently but have a whipple on the way, if I was staying with the stock blower or a Maggie 2.3 (which is basically a stock blower) the BMS would be what I run for sure.
I still have the BMS on the shelf, sold the Hal-Tech and I am running an AFE currently but have a whipple on the way, if I was staying with the stock blower or a Maggie 2.3 (which is basically a stock blower) the BMS would be what I run for sure.
