Tune issue on my A8?
11-01-2018, 05:18 PM
#41
Team Owner
We are sitting here laughing, trying to figure out what his point even is.
think about this for a moment...
I say it's the TC slipping and a mechanical issue.
he says all the cars have the same programming. That, I agree with.
so then we observe there are 2 types of autos, the ones that are slipping and the ones that dont.
people who have the ones which slip, start a thread saying they want their cars to not do this and want to be like the cars that don't slip, so I suggest different fluid or a new TC.
he gets angry, tells me I'm wrong, and then in so many words, he states that the programming is the same on them all, but the TC and the fluid is not a constant. (I Agree)
...
which means if a person does not like their car to slip... what is the only solution?
change the TC and/or the fluid.
but instead of say he agrees, he starts bragging that he understands how the computer is programmed in all the cars... which is the constant variable.
then he tells me I'm wrong about being able to fix the car to prohibit the slip.
Then he puts up memes that we are Satan. Lol.
I've never met people so eager to argue about nothing.
if someone does not like their TC slipping, replace it.
the end. We don't care about the constant denominator... of how the programming works.
we assumed it was constant. This is not profound info.
next thing you know, he will be arguing that the cars that don't slip, are the ones that are flawed.
or better yet, he will be saying that ones that slip and the ones that don't slip, are actually exactly the same... and the rest of us can't observe life and our vettes accurately, since the program is constant and that then means that no torque converter anywhere in any vette can slip anymore or less than any other. We are all just imagining it, thus his statements of "there is nothing to fix, it is 100% how the factory wanted the car to be" then would make sense.
think about this... from his point of view.. either...
the factory meant for them all to slip different amounts..
or the factory intended them all to slip the same, which they all do, and we are imagining a difference which is not there... since there is no issue to solve
am I the only one laughing at how dumb this discussion is right now? Lol
seems to me, the guy might have tuned a couple cars that do this, and since he can't fix it easily, he is running around telling everyone it is normal. Otherwise, I see no point in telling someone their slipping TC is normal... when most z06 don't do it... which is the opposite of "normal"
I guess all the new vettes on chevy showrooms are broken
they should all have 3 seconds of slip
you can't make this stuff up.
think about this for a moment...
I say it's the TC slipping and a mechanical issue.
he says all the cars have the same programming. That, I agree with.
so then we observe there are 2 types of autos, the ones that are slipping and the ones that dont.
people who have the ones which slip, start a thread saying they want their cars to not do this and want to be like the cars that don't slip, so I suggest different fluid or a new TC.
he gets angry, tells me I'm wrong, and then in so many words, he states that the programming is the same on them all, but the TC and the fluid is not a constant. (I Agree)
...
which means if a person does not like their car to slip... what is the only solution?
change the TC and/or the fluid.
but instead of say he agrees, he starts bragging that he understands how the computer is programmed in all the cars... which is the constant variable.
then he tells me I'm wrong about being able to fix the car to prohibit the slip.
Then he puts up memes that we are Satan. Lol.
I've never met people so eager to argue about nothing.
if someone does not like their TC slipping, replace it.
the end. We don't care about the constant denominator... of how the programming works.
we assumed it was constant. This is not profound info.
next thing you know, he will be arguing that the cars that don't slip, are the ones that are flawed.
or better yet, he will be saying that ones that slip and the ones that don't slip, are actually exactly the same... and the rest of us can't observe life and our vettes accurately, since the program is constant and that then means that no torque converter anywhere in any vette can slip anymore or less than any other. We are all just imagining it, thus his statements of "there is nothing to fix, it is 100% how the factory wanted the car to be" then would make sense.
think about this... from his point of view.. either...
the factory meant for them all to slip different amounts..
or the factory intended them all to slip the same, which they all do, and we are imagining a difference which is not there... since there is no issue to solve
am I the only one laughing at how dumb this discussion is right now? Lol
seems to me, the guy might have tuned a couple cars that do this, and since he can't fix it easily, he is running around telling everyone it is normal. Otherwise, I see no point in telling someone their slipping TC is normal... when most z06 don't do it... which is the opposite of "normal"
I guess all the new vettes on chevy showrooms are broken
they should all have 3 seconds of slip
you can't make this stuff up.
Since the thoughts of the 3 magically all interchange.
They are trying to understand. When they think the A8's are broken? First is the need to get the bubbles out of the intercoolers.
Now they moved to try and understand the transmissions.
Then none of the A8's have 3 seconds of slip that's a mighty long time! No need to make up true stories!
11-01-2018, 11:24 PM
#42
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Metro Detroit Michigan
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11-02-2018, 10:31 AM
#43
Burning Brakes
It was a heads/cam setup with flex/meth, pretty sure it went 9.49 @ 144 in ~2000 ft DA but I'm going off of memory so don't quote me on that one. I could only imagine what it would run at those negative DA tracks that people usually set records at.
11-02-2018, 11:57 PM
#44
Team Owner
Didn't it have a 15 inch conversion that seems to help bring the 60 ft down a lot from what I see. But still one that is one rocketship!
Last edited by 3 Z06ZR1; 11-03-2018 at 12:03 AM.
11-03-2018, 10:10 AM
#45
Burning Brakes
Ahh yes I think it does but his 60' was around what I did on an 18 so there is room left for improvement with just more time out there running it.
11-03-2018, 10:19 AM
#46
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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11-03-2018, 10:36 AM
#47
Tech Contributor
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.......................
If one has drag tires and drag wheels on that get exceptional grip, it is an understood reality that this setup is harder on the drive line components of any vehicle, vs, the stock rear wheel and tire setup which will spin. However, having a TC slip for 2 or 3 seconds each time one hits 125mph, let alone any gear shift above that speed, is not a good situation for predictable handling, .........................
If one has drag tires and drag wheels on that get exceptional grip, it is an understood reality that this setup is harder on the drive line components of any vehicle, vs, the stock rear wheel and tire setup which will spin. However, having a TC slip for 2 or 3 seconds each time one hits 125mph, let alone any gear shift above that speed, is not a good situation for predictable handling, .........................
Bill
11-03-2018, 11:29 AM
#48
Le Mans Master
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If I read your statement correctly you are saying handling is more predictable if the TC Clutch Locks up quicker and causes the rear wheels to spin Vs slipping that clutch to ease the lock up process thus preventing the rear tires from spinning. I have never found spinning rear tires to have any predictable handling characteristics. Once you spin the tires they lose all lateral grip and can move sideways in any direction influenced by forces outside of the vehicle. That means the handling is unpredictable.
Bill
Bill
Last edited by Warp Factor; 11-03-2018 at 11:30 AM.
11-04-2018, 12:40 PM
#49
If I read your statement correctly you are saying handling is more predictable if the TC Clutch Locks up quicker and causes the rear wheels to spin Vs slipping that clutch to ease the lock up process thus preventing the rear tires from spinning. I have never found spinning rear tires to have any predictable handling characteristics. Once you spin the tires they lose all lateral grip and can move sideways in any direction influenced by forces outside of the vehicle. That means the handling is unpredictable.
Bill
Bill
I understand that you have a manual transmission car, so it may be hard to fully understand the point of view of the guy who drives at high speed around curves with his automatic. By now, you have probably seen this video:
after the 4:30 mark, he does a series of curves. The shift that occurs during the left curve is crucial that it happens when he wants it to happen, and that it happens quickly and predictably.
Oddly enough, his transmission has the shudder problem to a slight degree, but he has driven cars that do not have it, and he actually prefers his transmission and torque converter.
The slight shutter does small predictable pops of torque in the curves which he uses to his advantage to get the back end loose and into a slight drift. Once that situation is initiated, he is able to power through the curve without worrying about the front end pushing he says. While drifting is not the fastest way around a curve, his drifting skills come into play he says at making it around curves as fast as he can. He notes that the best nascar drivers grew up on circle dirt tracks. He says those that cant race circle track have a huge disadvantage in the world of racing and understanding what can be done with a car.
He was in track mode during this series of curves, and he does that, not so much for the suspension, as much as the way the transmission/TC behave. Shift points, predictability, even the slight shudder he feels.
He claims, once one gets used to the car, they can predict when the auto trans will shift. While one (including myself) would assume that he would use the paddles, he claims the paddles are at a delay and have a different feel during the shift.
He actually prefers to let the car do the shifting, as long as he can accurately control and anticipate when those shifts will happen. He depends on those shifts to hit hard and quickly, and uses them to his advantage to loosen up the rear end.
It is hard to put into words... but all that I know is, he has 20,000 miles on this car and over 200,000 miles on corvettes collectively over the years, and he has control of the cars. Granted, his others were manuals, and he said he never anticipated he would be as good with the automatic as he has become. He claims he will never buy a manual trans vette again. I have seen him take experienced racers down through a series of S curves, he can walk away from people.
Sorry for the long post, but wanted to help you understand what was meant when I made the above post which you questioned.
