More fuel?
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Joined: Nov 2005
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From: Huntsville Alabama
In my head the rwhp is where I was like how is it doing that on e50 & stock injectors if you have seen them run out Below 800 even with 30% injectors.
still learning & asking not arguing just fyi.
do you think those mods/ numbers sound legit?
still learning & asking not arguing just fyi.
do you think those mods/ numbers sound legit?
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,048
Likes: 1,479
From: South Florida
It's also hard to judge or answer questions about HP the way you're asking. Dyno's read differently so one shop may say 800 is the limit but another may say 850 is the limit. Then if you get a completely different type of dyno they may say 750 is the limit. So these numbers are a ballpark. You have to judge by the datalogs, injector and fuel system data and leave room for cold weather and variations in ethanol content(unless you're going to mix to a specific value every time). In cold weather on the LT4, fuel demands go up quite a bit due to increased cold weather boost pressure. So if you're on the edge of the system in the summer, when winter comes around and temps drop, you will be over the edge.
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Not if you're trying to run high blends of ethanol. I have a client with a cammed ZL1 (38% lobe), low side and 30% injectors running E70. But we needed meth to get past 800rwhp. I imagine we could have stretched some on 93 but its just too hard to maintain power, keep spark in it and not heat up the blower trying to run 93 pump and no meth.
If you're not going to run Meth you need to run at least E50 to get these cars to make consistent power. E50 gives you 90% of the benefits of E so in reality targeting E55 with fuel mods will get you the most power for the money. Beyond E50 you gain more cooling efficiency in the combustion chamber which is beneficial when you spin the stock blower hard and don't use any meth.
If you're not going to run Meth you need to run at least E50 to get these cars to make consistent power. E50 gives you 90% of the benefits of E so in reality targeting E55 with fuel mods will get you the most power for the money. Beyond E50 you gain more cooling efficiency in the combustion chamber which is beneficial when you spin the stock blower hard and don't use any meth.
Im starting to feel like these LT4’s are weak 5k into a hellcat and you got 900 crank
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Joined: Jul 2019
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From: nashville TN
thats also a 4400 lb brick that wont hook. the lt4 isnt a weak motor at all. its the epa that has stunted the motor with dod /afm bull. do the internals proper and you end up with a ls style motor thats makes big power. the fueling is the part that so expensive to deal with . port injection cures that
Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,048
Likes: 1,479
From: South Florida
thats also a 4400 lb brick that wont hook. the lt4 isnt a weak motor at all. its the epa that has stunted the motor with dod /afm bull. do the internals proper and you end up with a ls style motor thats makes big power. the fueling is the part that so expensive to deal with . port injection cures that
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hellcat people give a nod to corvette’s but you corvette guys look for any reason to put down the hellcat.
personally I feel the two cars are incomparable however as for the motors I’d beg to differ.
an 800 crank hp hellcat is walking an 800hp C7Z DEFINITELY on top end.
aerodynamics are in the hellcat “charger’s” favor. Top end and gearing also.
The C7Z would get left within its 5th gear!
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Joined: Mar 2021
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thats also a 4400 lb brick that wont hook. the lt4 isnt a weak motor at all. its the epa that has stunted the motor with dod /afm bull. do the internals proper and you end up with a ls style motor thats makes big power. the fueling is the part that so expensive to deal with . port injection cures that
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Safety Car
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: South Florida
why would I be trolling? Im dead serious regardless of which is faster we were speaking specifically about COMBUSTION ENGINES & it’s capabilities.
hellcat people give a nod to corvette’s but you corvette guys look for any reason to put down the hellcat.
personally I feel the two cars are incomparable however as for the motors I’d beg to differ.
an 800 crank hp hellcat is walking an 800hp C7Z DEFINITELY on top end.
aerodynamics are in the hellcat “charger’s” favor. Top end and gearing also.
The C7Z would get left within its 5th gear!
hellcat people give a nod to corvette’s but you corvette guys look for any reason to put down the hellcat.
personally I feel the two cars are incomparable however as for the motors I’d beg to differ.
an 800 crank hp hellcat is walking an 800hp C7Z DEFINITELY on top end.
aerodynamics are in the hellcat “charger’s” favor. Top end and gearing also.
The C7Z would get left within its 5th gear!
I disagree the Charger is more aerodynamic, but I will say, Z06/Z07 cars with stage 3 aero really suffer on the top end due to the drag. If you're roll racing it easy to take all of that off. Then if we talk about weight, the Charger is easily1000 lbs heavier. That's a lot of weight to make up for vs the Z06. Nobody on here started trashing Hellcats, you came on here trashing Z06's on a Corvette Forum. So you indeed are the troll and all of the sudden are saying we are talking trash about the Hellcat? Get outta here with that garbage.
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Joined: Jul 2019
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From: nashville TN
Have you you ever raced an 800 Crank HP Z06 that DOESN'T have stage 3 aero and is a manual instead of the awful 8 speed auto? I'd put money on it the M7 Z06 would walk away up top.
I disagree the Charger is more aerodynamic, but I will say, Z06/Z07 cars with stage 3 aero really suffer on the top end due to the drag. If you're roll racing it easy to take all of that off. Then if we talk about weight, the Charger is easily1000 lbs heavier. That's a lot of weight to make up for vs the Z06. Nobody on here started trashing Hellcats, you came on here trashing Z06's on a Corvette Forum. So you indeed are the troll and all of the sudden are saying we are talking trash about the Hellcat? Get outta here with that garbage.
More like $3000. Not sure what you've been reading.....
I disagree the Charger is more aerodynamic, but I will say, Z06/Z07 cars with stage 3 aero really suffer on the top end due to the drag. If you're roll racing it easy to take all of that off. Then if we talk about weight, the Charger is easily1000 lbs heavier. That's a lot of weight to make up for vs the Z06. Nobody on here started trashing Hellcats, you came on here trashing Z06's on a Corvette Forum. So you indeed are the troll and all of the sudden are saying we are talking trash about the Hellcat? Get outta here with that garbage.
More like $3000. Not sure what you've been reading.....
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2019
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From: nashville TN
not at all. theres simply new players in the game now. toohighpsi has a complete setup for just about 3k$ based on what in sectors you choose. 1500 for the reflex II ecu 750 for the port plates and rails then you need in sectors.
dsx is in the process of building a port in section setup that will run about the same cost. the hardware for the fueling is the easy part. finding the right tuner who understands the integration of the additional 8 injectors and how to and when to fire them is the hard part. when the cars were just simple injectors e85 was easy. with direct injection it becomes much harder to integrate the new fuel in a seamless manner
dsx is in the process of building a port in section setup that will run about the same cost. the hardware for the fueling is the easy part. finding the right tuner who understands the integration of the additional 8 injectors and how to and when to fire them is the hard part. when the cars were just simple injectors e85 was easy. with direct injection it becomes much harder to integrate the new fuel in a seamless manner
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Joined: Mar 2021
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not at all. theres simply new players in the game now. toohighpsi has a complete setup for just about 3k$ based on what in sectors you choose. 1500 for the reflex II ecu 750 for the port plates and rails then you need in sectors.
dsx is in the process of building a port in section setup that will run about the same cost. the hardware for the fueling is the easy part. finding the right tuner who understands the integration of the additional 8 injectors and how to and when to fire them is the hard part. when the cars were just simple injectors e85 was easy. with direct injection it becomes much harder to integrate the new fuel in a seamless manner
dsx is in the process of building a port in section setup that will run about the same cost. the hardware for the fueling is the easy part. finding the right tuner who understands the integration of the additional 8 injectors and how to and when to fire them is the hard part. when the cars were just simple injectors e85 was easy. with direct injection it becomes much harder to integrate the new fuel in a seamless manner
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,391
Likes: 947
From: Huntsville Alabama
E70 without meth was my example. Also it depends on the pulley because there is a high demand on fuel on the hit when you have a more aggressive pulley. Fuel pressure can tank down low but be fine up top. Injector duty is not exactly linear in some setups. This client wanted to run pump E and not mix and the pumps in his area are E70-E82. On E70 with meth, he had injector room left for cold weather and more E content. But WITHOUT meth, the injectors wouldn't have been enough in this setup. It was close but not safe.
It's also hard to judge or answer questions about HP the way you're asking. Dyno's read differently so one shop may say 800 is the limit but another may say 850 is the limit. Then if you get a completely different type of dyno they may say 750 is the limit. So these numbers are a ballpark. You have to judge by the datalogs, injector and fuel system data and leave room for cold weather and variations in ethanol content(unless you're going to mix to a specific value every time). In cold weather on the LT4, fuel demands go up quite a bit due to increased cold weather boost pressure. So if you're on the edge of the system in the summer, when winter comes around and temps drop, you will be over the edge.
It's also hard to judge or answer questions about HP the way you're asking. Dyno's read differently so one shop may say 800 is the limit but another may say 850 is the limit. Then if you get a completely different type of dyno they may say 750 is the limit. So these numbers are a ballpark. You have to judge by the datalogs, injector and fuel system data and leave room for cold weather and variations in ethanol content(unless you're going to mix to a specific value every time). In cold weather on the LT4, fuel demands go up quite a bit due to increased cold weather boost pressure. So if you're on the edge of the system in the summer, when winter comes around and temps drop, you will be over the edge.
also most roots cars i have seen make more Torque, then sometimes they don't. and This one makes 825rwhp / 739rwtq. seems like a big spread on Tq. not sure where that comes from. It was a On a Mainline Dyno (Bolts to hubs.)
Last edited by mittens; Aug 14, 2023 at 10:17 AM.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: South Florida
Well the car in question has Stock size blower pulley (2.55), and a 18% over drive Crank (9.5").
also most roots cars i have seen make more Torque, then sometimes they don't. and This one makes 825rwhp / 739rwtq. seems like a big spread on Tq. not sure where that comes from. It was a On a Mainline Dyno (Bolts to hubs.)
also most roots cars i have seen make more Torque, then sometimes they don't. and This one makes 825rwhp / 739rwtq. seems like a big spread on Tq. not sure where that comes from. It was a On a Mainline Dyno (Bolts to hubs.)
The torque number depends on the pulleys and then the HP depends on the ported blower, intake, TB, cam and heads. This cam makes more HP than torque.
My only point is that the numbers you read about or are reported are ballpark figures depending on the setup. The car above would probably survive on E50-E60 and no meth, but the owner wants to run pump E which is between 68-82% in his area. And yes, depending on the dyno, the numbers reported can vary widely. I'm definitely not here to say what you can and cannot do. Just giving an example from my experience.