Target Times Have Been Set!
01-31-2018, 04:17 PM
#41
Safety Car
Saying the 720S engine is a Nissan engine is like saying the LT5 is based on the L98.
The new McLaren motors, especially the new 4.0L, don't have much if anything besides basic architecture in common with the older design. Not only that, McLaren bought the rights to the engine from TWR not Nissan, which means it probably if not wholly designed by the British racing outfit.
The new McLaren motors, especially the new 4.0L, don't have much if anything besides basic architecture in common with the older design. Not only that, McLaren bought the rights to the engine from TWR not Nissan, which means it probably if not wholly designed by the British racing outfit.
I wonder if Ricardo spent the money to bring the fuel injection tech up to date on that Nissan V8. Oh wait, it was too expensive:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-turbo-v8.html.
01-31-2018, 04:48 PM
#42
Well, the LT5 has direct and port injection. Huge amount of resources when into designing the first direct injected pushrod engine. I'd call that a giant leap forward in the SBC world.
I wonder if Ricardo spent the money to bring the fuel injection tech up to date on that Nissan V8. Oh wait, it was too expensive:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-turbo-v8.html.
I wonder if Ricardo spent the money to bring the fuel injection tech up to date on that Nissan V8. Oh wait, it was too expensive:
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...-turbo-v8.html.
And cancelling my Senna order.
Last edited by Enzom; 01-31-2018 at 05:00 PM.
01-31-2018, 05:11 PM
#43
All Internal Combustion Engines are evolutionary...no one is re-inventing the thing.
Last edited by sunsalem; 01-31-2018 at 05:12 PM.
02-01-2018, 12:11 PM
#45
So stupid. The 4.0L is underrated at 710hp and is really making damn near 800hp crank and people are talking about methods of fuel injection.
Anyway, back to the track times. I definitely think the ZR1 will be an under-7 minute car at the Ring, especially if it can keep pushing past 120mph like the Euro cars and unlike the Z06.
Last edited by Kappa; 02-01-2018 at 12:37 PM.
02-01-2018, 04:09 PM
#47
Burning Brakes
Is there are a better performance car (at any price) on the market right now than the 720s? Likely not. The Senna will take that 720s and bitch slap it, which over-night makes the NFGT obsolete. This is not a 'knock' on Ford and the NFGT, awesome car...but it speaks VOLUMES about McLaren. Ford money vs McLaren...hmmm...Amazing what McLaren is doing.
Hard to argue that McLaren's method, whether it be street cars or race cars doesn't work INCREDIBLY well. Anything else is just hate. I don't care if they use a 30 year old pushrod V8 from a Nascar, if it works, it works.
Oh yeah almost forgot...they are still subject to current emissions standards...hmmm...They're doing something right.I guarantee you Ferrari has taken notice...in fact everyone has.
Last edited by ZoratZ06; 02-01-2018 at 04:10 PM.
The following users liked this post:
TARANTULA (02-01-2018)
02-01-2018, 04:33 PM
#48
Safety Car
Seriously man...what's your deal with McLaren? It doesn't matter if the technology is from the 1700's...if the performance and reliability are unquestioned, then it's a moot point. Period. You may or may not like their approach, BUT, their approach to building street/race cars is proven.
Is there are a better performance car (at any price) on the market right now than the 720s? Likely not. The Senna will take that 720s and bitch slap it, which over-night makes the NFGT obsolete. This is not a 'knock' on Ford and the NFGT, awesome car...but it speaks VOLUMES about McLaren. Ford money vs McLaren...hmmm...Amazing what McLaren is doing.
Hard to argue that McLaren's method, whether it be street cars or race cars doesn't work INCREDIBLY well. Anything else is just hate. I don't care if they use a 30 year old pushrod V8 from a Nascar, if it works, it works. Oh yeah almost forgot...they are still subject to current emissions standards...hmmm...They're doing something right.
I guarantee you Ferrari has taken notice...in fact everyone has.
Is there are a better performance car (at any price) on the market right now than the 720s? Likely not. The Senna will take that 720s and bitch slap it, which over-night makes the NFGT obsolete. This is not a 'knock' on Ford and the NFGT, awesome car...but it speaks VOLUMES about McLaren. Ford money vs McLaren...hmmm...Amazing what McLaren is doing.
Hard to argue that McLaren's method, whether it be street cars or race cars doesn't work INCREDIBLY well. Anything else is just hate. I don't care if they use a 30 year old pushrod V8 from a Nascar, if it works, it works.
Oh yeah almost forgot...they are still subject to current emissions standards...hmmm...They're doing something right.I guarantee you Ferrari has taken notice...in fact everyone has.
My point was more nuanced, I simply said I don't believe in it being the king of the hill. More specifically, I said there are several engine manufacturers that have better engines on the market.
The last time there was a king of the hill was perhaps in the 90's with the McLaren F1. But today you can't have it all in one car, there are far too many choices. For top speed and acceleration I'd still have a Bugatti, for driving pleasure a stick shift GT3, for song the Hurracan, and so forth. The McLaren F1 did it all.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 02-01-2018 at 04:35 PM.
02-01-2018, 04:47 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
I don't get it either. I praised its chassis and so forth in earlier posts but forum commandos don't bother to read the whole thing.
My point was more nuanced, I simply said I don't believe in it being the king of the hill. More specifically, I said there are several engine manufacturers that have better engines on the market.
The last time there was a king of the hill was perhaps in the 90's with the McLaren F1. But today you can't have it all in one car, there are far too many choices. For top speed and acceleration I'd still have a Bugatti, for driving pleasure a stick shift GT3, for song the Hurracan, and so forth. The McLaren F1 did it all.
My point was more nuanced, I simply said I don't believe in it being the king of the hill. More specifically, I said there are several engine manufacturers that have better engines on the market.
The last time there was a king of the hill was perhaps in the 90's with the McLaren F1. But today you can't have it all in one car, there are far too many choices. For top speed and acceleration I'd still have a Bugatti, for driving pleasure a stick shift GT3, for song the Hurracan, and so forth. The McLaren F1 did it all.
With regard to the epic McLaren F-1...I 'generally' agree accept for the sound part...I think a 90's Diablo, F50 etc sounded better and the F-1 was not exactly a daily driver: tight, noisy, and no luggage space. The closest thing to it back then was a 911 TTS in terms of 'all around' performance...But nothing was as epic as the F-1 in terms of raw performance and absolutely destroying bench marks.
02-01-2018, 04:59 PM
#50
Safety Car
If there is company that can extract power from a turbocharged engine, it's MB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGDJqTDXgtg&t=101s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGDJqTDXgtg&t=101s
02-01-2018, 05:25 PM
#51
Safety Car
I see your point and there are certainly a lot of cars to choose from these days...to be honest, not many are as 'balanced' as the new ZR1. Genuine trunk space, daily/cross country cruiser, track beast, nice grunty sound, reliable etc.
With regard to the epic McLaren F-1...I 'generally' agree accept for the sound part...I think a 90's Diablo, F50 etc sounded better and the F-1 was not exactly a daily driver: tight, noisy, and no luggage space. The closest thing to it back then was a 911 TTS in terms of 'all around' performance...But nothing was as epic as the F-1 in terms of raw performance and absolutely destroying bench marks.
With regard to the epic McLaren F-1...I 'generally' agree accept for the sound part...I think a 90's Diablo, F50 etc sounded better and the F-1 was not exactly a daily driver: tight, noisy, and no luggage space. The closest thing to it back then was a 911 TTS in terms of 'all around' performance...But nothing was as epic as the F-1 in terms of raw performance and absolutely destroying bench marks.
I have a theory that engines with less advanced valve timing events are a bit easier to get good sound out of. The Maca's V12 had a few more bells and whistles. Without active sound tuning it's hard to make it sound good at all RPM and throttle position combos.
02-01-2018, 07:41 PM
#52
Everyone seems to forget how only recently did McLaren try to get into making streetcars in a big way.
It is amazing how quickly they got up to speed (pun unintended).
Hats off to them...
VERY COOL.
Thank you for the fascinating and educational link.
It is amazing how quickly they got up to speed (pun unintended).
Hats off to them...
Thank you for the fascinating and educational link.
02-03-2018, 04:36 PM
#53
02-08-2018, 02:37 PM
#54
Drifting
Those of you that are eventually taking delivery of the Senna are in for a real treat. I spoke to my good friend Mansour who said that Bruno Senna recently conducted some comparitive laps on the F1 track in Bahrain between the P1 GTR and the Senna. The GTR was in full race trim, the Senna in stock trim with street tires. The GTR beat it by only 1 second.
02-08-2018, 02:50 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
Those of you that are eventually taking delivery of the Senna are in for a real treat. I spoke to my good friend Mansour who said that Bruno Senna recently conducted some comparitive laps on the F1 track in Bahrain between the P1 GTR and the Senna. The GTR was in full race trim, the Senna in stock trim with street tires. The GTR beat it by only 1 second.
02-08-2018, 03:57 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
Well, first the VIR Grand Course lap times were 2:43.0 and 2:44.6, not 1:43 and 1:44.6. Jim Mero also already put down a 2:41.3 in the 2015 C7 Z06 three years ago. I realize that's comparing a GM employee to the C&D editor but everyone was also quick to point out that Mero wasn't a "professional driver" in the ZR1 ring time thread.
To top things off, GM also said that with the new suspension tune they just released and is standard on the 2018s knocked 2.5s off the C7 Z06 lap time at VIR Grand Course. So that puts the C7 Z06 lap time down to a 2:38.8 or over 4 seconds a lap faster than the Ford GT. That's before we even see the C7 ZR1 run which should be a fair bit better again.
To top things off, GM also said that with the new suspension tune they just released and is standard on the 2018s knocked 2.5s off the C7 Z06 lap time at VIR Grand Course. So that puts the C7 Z06 lap time down to a 2:38.8 or over 4 seconds a lap faster than the Ford GT. That's before we even see the C7 ZR1 run which should be a fair bit better again.
2.5 seconds is an absolutely stupid about of time to drop from a suspension recalibration. When my DSC took a ****, I ran about 2 seconds slower per lap. That is going from full soft shocks, 100% of the time, to an "optimized" DSC tune. Surely the gap wouldn't even be 1/4 of that.
I would expect the Z06 to drop a lot of time going from the sail spoiler to a true wing from drag reduction alone. It wouldn't surprise me if it picked up 5mph at the end of the straight, it not more. Another 100hp on top of that and more down force?
02-08-2018, 07:06 PM
#57
2.5 seconds is an absolutely stupid about of time to drop from a suspension recalibration. When my DSC took a ****, I ran about 2 seconds slower per lap. That is going from full soft shocks, 100% of the time, to an "optimized" DSC tune. Surely the gap wouldn't even be 1/4 of that.
If anyone understands the MRC system and how to maximize its performance, it would be GM engineers.
BTW, stop calling him Shirley!
Last edited by sunsalem; 02-08-2018 at 07:07 PM.
02-08-2018, 07:38 PM
#58
Do you really think it was the suspension or just a combination of factors (repave? Track conditions? Driver? etc)
2.5 seconds is an absolutely stupid about of time to drop from a suspension recalibration. When my DSC took a ****, I ran about 2 seconds slower per lap. That is going from full soft shocks, 100% of the time, to an "optimized" DSC tune. Surely the gap wouldn't even be 1/4 of that.
I would expect the Z06 to drop a lot of time going from the sail spoiler to a true wing from drag reduction alone. It wouldn't surprise me if it picked up 5mph at the end of the straight, it not more. Another 100hp on top of that and more down force?
2.5 seconds is an absolutely stupid about of time to drop from a suspension recalibration. When my DSC took a ****, I ran about 2 seconds slower per lap. That is going from full soft shocks, 100% of the time, to an "optimized" DSC tune. Surely the gap wouldn't even be 1/4 of that.
I would expect the Z06 to drop a lot of time going from the sail spoiler to a true wing from drag reduction alone. It wouldn't surprise me if it picked up 5mph at the end of the straight, it not more. Another 100hp on top of that and more down force?
I don't know how much of the improvement is Jim improving as a driver but he's been smoking fast for a long time. It could just be that the feel of the car is much better compared to the original tune. I wrote a bit of a manifesto on this in another thread - https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1596538714
We've already seen that the ZR1 is 16 MPH faster on the front straight than the Z06 and we could likely be looking at north of 175 MPH on the back straight compared to ~160 MPH with the Z06. That alone is a lot of extra time shed - when I speculate that most drivers will see a 1s/lap improvement I am being very conservative.
02-09-2018, 08:34 AM
#59
I'm pretty sure the first run was already after they widened and did the initial repave of VIR. I don't know that the track has gotten faster and may have actually gotten a little worse in the subsequent repave and sealer applications after the first repave started coming up. In any case, I don't think they've done anything on the Grand "infield" section in a very long time and 1s of that extra time was in there.
I don't know how much of the improvement is Jim improving as a driver but he's been smoking fast for a long time. It could just be that the feel of the car is much better compared to the original tune. I wrote a bit of a manifesto on this in another thread - https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1596538714
We've already seen that the ZR1 is 16 MPH faster on the front straight than the Z06 and we could likely be looking at north of 175 MPH on the back straight compared to ~160 MPH with the Z06. That alone is a lot of extra time shed - when I speculate that most drivers will see a 1s/lap improvement I am being very conservative.
I don't know how much of the improvement is Jim improving as a driver but he's been smoking fast for a long time. It could just be that the feel of the car is much better compared to the original tune. I wrote a bit of a manifesto on this in another thread - https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1596538714
We've already seen that the ZR1 is 16 MPH faster on the front straight than the Z06 and we could likely be looking at north of 175 MPH on the back straight compared to ~160 MPH with the Z06. That alone is a lot of extra time shed - when I speculate that most drivers will see a 1s/lap improvement I am being very conservative.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCDS...IkweraNN2199tg