keagan

I cranked up Forza 7, jumped in the 2016 GT3RS and mustered a 7:46. Jumped on the Z06 and mustered a 7:22. Mad props to whoever gets sub 7. Lol

Telepierre

Took a look and yes the "Ring" GT3RS had the same configuration than the GT2RS:

Weissach package
A/C system delete
Infotainment delete
Communication bus delete
mini racing tank

Also took a look at stated curb weight: 3350

So the question for the track folks is whether the ZR1 3560lbs with a 210 weight handicap would really make that much of a difference at the ring?

johnglenntwo

That Stifling!? Lawsuits'!

Telepierre

Try the GT3 again with A/C delete, radio delete, and whatever deletes forza 7 handles and I bet you came even.....

Telepierre

But seriously.. weight/power weight/torque

4.71 (ZR1) vs 6.56 (GT3RS) and double the torque!
this stuff does not matter anymore?

Dave Schotz

PRE-Z06

Wow, figured the rear engine configuration has less drivetrain loss though that's less than 10%. Is the 460rwhp SAE or STD?

Dave Schotz

Telepierre

Thank you Dave. I read you track and own a GT3. Is 3150 your car? or the "ring" car?
I got the 3350 directly from the Porsche web site GT3RS spec sheet: https://www.porsche.com/italy/models...ls/911-gt3-rs/

I think I read on this thread from another GT3 owner the weights are understated?

The spec sheet also states 520 (DIN) which actually is overstated compared to SAE and translate to roughly 510 (SAE).
But I guess the gist of it all is that the 510 translates to 460/450 at the wheel which is very close to the 755 at the flywheel once that makes it to the wheel..I’ll take a look at those losses…

turbo8765

It's not 520hp, it's 520ps. It's 513hp.

And it's NOT conservative. It's spot on. Porsche actually does know how to rate hp.

The underrated non-sense comes from a combination of "proud" owners and using a dyno to determine absolute values when it really should only be used for relative values.

Put your 2018 on the MAHA and it will make exactly what porsche say it makes.

turbo8765

Sport Auto will put the .2 GT3 on the MAHA, which will end the "underrated" non sense.

Dave Schotz

I can sense Turbo... that you're very passionate about your HP rating... all I'm saying... is for a guy who has owned MANY of these cars... and takes them to the DYNO... the new GT3 is Putting down 460 RWHP and 330 RWTQ... the last GT3 barely did 420 and 280 Tq...

Further... when you compare to corvettes, BMW's, Vipers etc... they all see considerably more loss to the TIRE... if it's due to the dynamics... so be it... but the fact is... 500 hp... putting down 460 is like a corvette making 540 hp putting down 460... RIGHT? I don't care if you say the porsche as 400HP... and the Vette 900HP... it's what the tires put to the ground that accelerate the car.

Tele... I have weight my car (on 1/4 tank) it was 3100 even. This article from R&T shows the new GT3RS (2019) at 3,153.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...ictures-price/

Best Regards,
Dave

Telepierre

So I did some quick math on drivetrain losses and looked at a ZR1 dyno video...can we assume about 660 SAE? and if so can we assume still a hefty 200ish delta..?

It's hard for me to see a GT3RS beating a ZR1 on power..so there must be something else here and I am trying to understand what it is..? and I refuse to believe that the ring GT3RS car even with all the OEM deletes is a sub 3000 car?... HELP!

Telepierre

Dave,

I know you are a good guy and I am not trying to be coy. I have no doubts YOUR car with whatever spec came at 3100 even on 1/4 tank whatever the tank size...

I am trying to do some math on the 2019 GT3RS and I have to take "legal" weight over a magazine..and I suppose 200 pounds in this context is not pocket change either. Point is if we go down the "strip stuff" rattle hole we will never end...

If we want to say the GT3RS is faster because it is 200 pounds lighter that ZR1 so be it...I am just trying to understand why....

Dave Schotz

I enjoy the sarcasm here... but there are a few holes in your theory:

A.) No one has confirmed the GT3RS has beaten the ZR1 at the ring?

B.) Lets say the ZR1 makes 650 to the rear and the GT3RS, 480... 170, or so RWHP advantage to the ZR1...

C.) conservatively the GT3RS will weigh 400LBS less than the ZR1, on similar size tires.

D.) No one knows what these new CUP 2R tires are like, though Porsche says they still are not one lap cheater tires... no one really knows

E.) The RS has significantly more weight over the rear of the car, and able to use all of it's RWHP early out of turns than probably the ZR1.

But (IMO) this is all hearsay... until the ZR1 posts their lap... which could very well be 6:55 or 7:05... I for one would expect it to beat the Viper at a minimum. Time will only tell (I hope).

Best Regards,
Dave

johnglenntwo

I found out Porsche's have a solid 15% Drive line Loss!?

Furthermore, I believe the phrase is Well Sorted! AND don't forget the Tires!!!
The ZR1's tires are more for our LITTLE tracks!

RPM + Torque is better power or why would they do it! The ZR1 running 9000 RPM would absolutely be a Monster, and what 850hp - oh that's why!

Telepierre

Sarcasm aside (I have more on the way..) I don't have problems accepting holes in my theory. Like you say it's all hearsay but nonetheless I'd like to submit two in yours:

C.) You are basically saying the GT3RS spec sheet is wrong. Could it more plausible that the spec sheets are right and that in order to make that power and torque gains both GT2RS and GT3RS had to add component and fluids weight to their motors AND add weight to achieve RWS which is a five element system per wheel with the two actuators alone coming in at 48 pounds? So this is facts but here comes the speculation part: Would you be willing to bet that what was added to the motor and drivetrain is exactly what was taken out with the OEM deletes..and that is why you and I are off 200 pounds..?

E.) This keeps coming up…and I thought it was over circa C3 going into C4?... No, honestly, I am not a seasoned tracker but this rear engine faster on the pedal “magic thing” has been comparatively proven wrong in countless tests mostly because you and I know the fallacy of too much power and torque has been debunked years ago (see also GT2 and GT3 adding weight torque and power)

All in good fun! In a way we are back to the discussion of disclosed specs, real specs, and Ring car specs. Truth is more than seeing a time on the C7ZR1 Ring time (there are so many other tracks) I REALLY would like to know the real specs of those ring record cars…but probably never will..:-(

Suns_PSD

I only run about 525 rwhp in my C6, now I do also have 4.11s. BUT, I also have up to temp 345 width R888rs.

Where am I going with this? I have to be very gentle on the throttle exiting turns where I'm using a large amount of my traction circle for turning. I can imagine that you could apply heavy throttle much sooner in a rear engine 911. That's all. Over the course of the Nurburgring, that should result in some faster times.

Kappa

Corner exit isn't everything. The Corvette usually has an advantage entering and through the middle of the corner.

Suns_PSD

Without getting in to vehicle specifics, increased exit speed is really critical for fast lap times, even if you sacrifice entry speed. Most importantly on to the 'front straight'.

If you exit the turn going 3mph faster, all else being equal you will maintain that 3 mph advantage for the entire length of the straightaway. On a long straightaway you can watch that other vehicle just motor right away. And as the speeds get higher that distance becomes notably longer.

Often in racing people claim the other car is 'faster' but it's quite easy to make a slower car run down a faster car on a straightaway just by setting up your line to allow a faster exit speed. Slower mid corner speed, eh that's like a half car length, make it up on the brakes. But an entire straightaway of going faster is many car lengths.