ZR1 vs Porsche GT Cars - Track Consummable/Maintenance Cost
05-28-2018, 08:11 PM
#81
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Since I have an allocation for the ZR1 I have obviously been looking to learn more. I downloaded the 2019 Corvette Owner's Manual and found these two items in it under the section called "Track Events and Competitive Driving", which are somewhat surprising:
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
Brake Fluid
Replace existing brake fluid with a
qualified high performance brake
fluid from a sealed container. Brake
fluid with a dry boiling point >310 °C
(590 °F) is qualified. If high
performance brake fluid is used,
replace it with GM approved brake
fluid before driving on public roads.
If high performance brake fluid is in
the vehicle and the age of the brake
fluid is over a month old or
unknown, replace the brake fluid
before track events and competitive
driving. Do not use silicone or
DOT-5 brake fluids.
Engine Oil
For the LT5 engine, SAE 15W-50
full synthetic engine oil must be
used for track use, but after track
use must be changed back to
0W-40 dexos2 for street use.
Are people doing this for each day at the track?
As for the oil we have feedback from Tadge on the 15W50 requirement for the track. He said the only reason the 15W50 wasn't certified for street use is it would have made them recertify their fuel mileage and they would have seen some higher costs due to increased cat replacements since they are covered by the 8 yr/80K mile emissions warranty. I really am not that affected by the marginally increased fuel consumption or the cat warranty cost issue so I leave the 15W50 oil in the engine.
Bill
05-28-2018, 08:18 PM
#82
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The biggest hit the ZR1 will see is in consumable costs. From what I see in the OM GM is telling people to use 100 Octane unleaded fuel when on track. That just about doubles the fuel bill if fuel consumption stays the same as the Z06. With the Z06 my biggest costs are track insurance, fuel, brakes and then oil. On top of that add lodging and food costs. That is what has seriously increased my track outing costs since I moved South. Living 60 miles from the Glen meant I spent every night in my own bed, ate breakfast and dinner at home and only spent money on lunch. That alone is close to $400 added to a 3 day track weekend.
Bill
Bill
05-28-2018, 09:01 PM
#83
The biggest hit the ZR1 will see is in consumable costs. From what I see in the OM GM is telling people to use 100 Octane unleaded fuel when on track. That just about doubles the fuel bill if fuel consumption stays the same as the Z06. With the Z06 my biggest costs are track insurance, fuel, brakes and then oil. On top of that add lodging and food costs. That is what has seriously increased my track outing costs since I moved South. Living 60 miles from the Glen meant I spent every night in my own bed, ate breakfast and dinner at home and only spent money on lunch. That alone is close to $400 added to a 3 day track weekend.
Bill
Bill
"LT5 Engine : 93 octane (or higher)
unleaded gasoline is required.
100 octane (or higher) unleaded
gasoline is recommended to
maximize powertrain performance
and improve longevity of
components within the powertrain.
Caution
Some high"
05-29-2018, 01:54 AM
#84
You're still off on the weights and tires... but that will come out soon enough I'm sure. I've weighed my '18 GT3... Porsche says 3116, my car weighed 3100 empty and 3255 with the 90L tank full.
The weight data comes from the EPA measurements under SAE measurement protocols.
Are you suggesting their weight data is off and your weight data is more reliable?
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Z06Norway (05-29-2018)
05-29-2018, 03:41 AM
#85
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2000
Location: Merritt Island Florida
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Porsche , Ferrari and most European car manufactor state DRY weight... not relevant at all, and they also underestimate ALOT......
Think it was EVO magazine that testet 10-12 different cars, claimed vs. actual weight and there was a huge diff... Corvette came out best in class :-)
Porsche GT3 RS is lighter than ZR1, its a small car.... but not 400 pounds lighter as someone claimed.... :-)
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Telepierre (05-30-2018)
05-29-2018, 07:41 AM
#86
Burning Brakes
I can tell you one cost that’s higher on the Porsche (from what I’m told by Porsche owners)... when my ZR1 blows an engine on the back straight it’s covered under GM warranty regardless of the fact I’m on a race track participating in a “track day”. My understanding is Porsche does NOT warranty their cars if used on track. (Perhaps that’s incorrect but I recall a discussion about this on the forum last season).
Last season a fellow driver had the supercharger on his Z06 eat itself and take the rest of the Engine with it... on track... GM replaced it all, under warranty... no issues.
For me, that alone is huge.
Last season a fellow driver had the supercharger on his Z06 eat itself and take the rest of the Engine with it... on track... GM replaced it all, under warranty... no issues.
For me, that alone is huge.
You could buy a new vette as a track only car and have GM fix,sponsor
, it for 5 years.
Last edited by winstonc; 05-30-2018 at 06:51 AM.
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desmophile (06-01-2018)
06-01-2018, 11:40 AM
#87
My GT3 RS on low fuel at the scales (InterComp Pro Digital scales) is 3088 lbs. My 2016 Z06 with a similar fuel load (less than 1/4 of a tank) is 3,443 lbs on the same scales. My Z06 is a 3LZ/Z07 car (CCB and lots of carbon options)
The new ZR1 is heavier than my Z06, and my GT3 RS still has the super heavy axle lift (22 lbs of extra hardware, Porsche has a new lighter system for 2018), A/C, optional stereo + Navigation, not a stripper GT3 RS at all.
C7 ZR1 and 991 GT3 RS are easily +/-400 lbs apart. Options on both cars would increase/decrease the gap, but it is still a big weight gap (auto trans, cabrios, sofa seats, etc.).
The weight that matters is the one on the scales. That's the one you get, not the one in the paperwork or written specs.
"Road and Track" fuels up their test cars, and place them on scales. You can then remove the fuel weight by using the fuel tank capacity, and compare weight among cars.
Consumables are always going to be more expensive in the Porsche GT cars. Wheels are more expensive, brake pads are more expensive, and Porsche maintenance parts extremely expensive (plugs, the front spoiler lip, safety equipment).
The only thing I can see a ZR1 using more is fuel, my Z06 is a thirsty car, my 991 GT3 RS runs forever on a fuel tank.
The new ZR1 is heavier than my Z06, and my GT3 RS still has the super heavy axle lift (22 lbs of extra hardware, Porsche has a new lighter system for 2018), A/C, optional stereo + Navigation, not a stripper GT3 RS at all.
C7 ZR1 and 991 GT3 RS are easily +/-400 lbs apart. Options on both cars would increase/decrease the gap, but it is still a big weight gap (auto trans, cabrios, sofa seats, etc.).
The weight that matters is the one on the scales. That's the one you get, not the one in the paperwork or written specs.
"Road and Track" fuels up their test cars, and place them on scales. You can then remove the fuel weight by using the fuel tank capacity, and compare weight among cars.
Consumables are always going to be more expensive in the Porsche GT cars. Wheels are more expensive, brake pads are more expensive, and Porsche maintenance parts extremely expensive (plugs, the front spoiler lip, safety equipment).
The only thing I can see a ZR1 using more is fuel, my Z06 is a thirsty car, my 991 GT3 RS runs forever on a fuel tank.
06-01-2018, 12:04 PM
#88
OK folks! We are at the finishing end of this round.. still time to beat 3088!!
2900 anybody?? 2900 (gone once) 2900 (gone twice) C'mon!! I know it's in you...
2900 anybody?? 2900 (gone once) 2900 (gone twice) C'mon!! I know it's in you...
Last edited by Telepierre; 06-01-2018 at 12:16 PM.
06-01-2018, 01:14 PM
#89
06-01-2018, 01:52 PM
#90
GM as a sponsor!!
That is what and why I did it!! 7000 miles on the 2017 Z06. 2500 of those miles on the street.
Never though about angle that GM is "sponsoring" the car.
Heck, now I can say I am a driver sponsored by a major automotive manufacturer. Sweet
06-01-2018, 05:37 PM
#91
06-01-2018, 05:43 PM
#92
My GT3 RS on low fuel at the scales (InterComp Pro Digital scales) is 3088 lbs. My 2016 Z06 with a similar fuel load (less than 1/4 of a tank) is 3,443 lbs on the same scales. My Z06 is a 3LZ/Z07 car (CCB and lots of carbon options)
The new ZR1 is heavier than my Z06, and my GT3 RS still has the super heavy axle lift (22 lbs of extra hardware, Porsche has a new lighter system for 2018), A/C, optional stereo + Navigation, not a stripper GT3 RS at all.
C7 ZR1 and 991 GT3 RS are easily +/-400 lbs apart. Options on both cars would increase/decrease the gap, but it is still a big weight gap (auto trans, cabrios, sofa seats, etc.).
The weight that matters is the one on the scales. That's the one you get, not the one in the paperwork or written specs.
"Road and Track" fuels up their test cars, and place them on scales. You can then remove the fuel weight by using the fuel tank capacity, and compare weight among cars.
Consumables are always going to be more expensive in the Porsche GT cars. Wheels are more expensive, brake pads are more expensive, and Porsche maintenance parts extremely expensive (plugs, the front spoiler lip, safety equipment).
The only thing I can see a ZR1 using more is fuel, my Z06 is a thirsty car, my 991 GT3 RS runs forever on a fuel tank.
The new ZR1 is heavier than my Z06, and my GT3 RS still has the super heavy axle lift (22 lbs of extra hardware, Porsche has a new lighter system for 2018), A/C, optional stereo + Navigation, not a stripper GT3 RS at all.
C7 ZR1 and 991 GT3 RS are easily +/-400 lbs apart. Options on both cars would increase/decrease the gap, but it is still a big weight gap (auto trans, cabrios, sofa seats, etc.).
The weight that matters is the one on the scales. That's the one you get, not the one in the paperwork or written specs.
"Road and Track" fuels up their test cars, and place them on scales. You can then remove the fuel weight by using the fuel tank capacity, and compare weight among cars.
Consumables are always going to be more expensive in the Porsche GT cars. Wheels are more expensive, brake pads are more expensive, and Porsche maintenance parts extremely expensive (plugs, the front spoiler lip, safety equipment).
The only thing I can see a ZR1 using more is fuel, my Z06 is a thirsty car, my 991 GT3 RS runs forever on a fuel tank.
The lightest 991.1 GT3 RS that I have seen was the one tested at the lightning lap. That was a one off build with no a/c, stereo, or infotainment and it weighed 3155.
I wonder if the GT3RS that set the ring lap had a/c? Stereo? Other unknown deletes for weight savings?
06-01-2018, 09:19 PM
#93
First of all, both GT3s and ZR1s are awesome cars. Considering all the other !@#!@ that's going on in the world, it is at least nice that we get to see these amazing cars on track.
To the OP, I would have to say that both these cars are insanely expensive to run, so it's sort of a mute point which is more expensive.
I consider myself a bottom-feeder racer with my C5Z and C4, yet the amount of money I spend on racing every year is more than what the average person spends to buy a new car. To be at the level of running a GT3 or ZR1 is just on a whole different level of insanity. I do know guys who run these cars, and I appreciate that they do. It's nice that not everyone who buys supercars just uses them for Starbucks runs.
I'll make one point that I have not seen others state. Consider the massive depreciation that your car will take if you use it for serious track duty. People who buy these cars used want a perfect, no-stories car. Besides the stone chips and such, just the fact that you have tracked either car will make it much harder to sell in a few years, especially when the warranty is expired.
To the OP, I would have to say that both these cars are insanely expensive to run, so it's sort of a mute point which is more expensive.
I consider myself a bottom-feeder racer with my C5Z and C4, yet the amount of money I spend on racing every year is more than what the average person spends to buy a new car. To be at the level of running a GT3 or ZR1 is just on a whole different level of insanity. I do know guys who run these cars, and I appreciate that they do. It's nice that not everyone who buys supercars just uses them for Starbucks runs.
I'll make one point that I have not seen others state. Consider the massive depreciation that your car will take if you use it for serious track duty. People who buy these cars used want a perfect, no-stories car. Besides the stone chips and such, just the fact that you have tracked either car will make it much harder to sell in a few years, especially when the warranty is expired.
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Telepierre (06-02-2018)
06-01-2018, 10:18 PM
#94
Safety Car
You can find this same thread with different posters from every generation of respective GT3 and Corvette for at least 15 years covering c5/996 c6/997 and c7/991 and they are pretty much identical conversations. Main expenditure for either will be tires and fuel. The GT3 may be better on gas, maybe worse on tires from what I've heard. Corvette will be harder on brakes but the GT3 centerlocks will time out and hubs need replacing. Probably close to balancing out over several years. Corvette faster, GT3 will run at near it's max speed for longer.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Last edited by heavychevy; 06-01-2018 at 10:19 PM.
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06-02-2018, 12:08 AM
#95
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In my humble opinion the GT3 is like a higher maintenance model, the ZR1 being a heavier chick who likes to eats more. Both can please and overall cost of consumables may be similar with the quantity consumed by the ZR1 equaling the quality of the finer GT3 palate.
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Telepierre (06-02-2018)
06-02-2018, 07:05 AM
#96
I recommend always weighing full of fuel. As full as you can get it. Eliminates confusion. "Low fuel" is quite imprecise.
The lightest 991.1 GT3 RS that I have seen was the one tested at the lightning lap. That was a one off build with no a/c, stereo, or infotainment and it weighed 3155.
I wonder if the GT3RS that set the ring lap had a/c? Stereo? Other unknown deletes for weight savings?
The lightest 991.1 GT3 RS that I have seen was the one tested at the lightning lap. That was a one off build with no a/c, stereo, or infotainment and it weighed 3155.
I wonder if the GT3RS that set the ring lap had a/c? Stereo? Other unknown deletes for weight savings?
Both cars were OEM deleted: Track/weissach package with No A/C, No Infotainment, No communications harness.
06-02-2018, 07:08 AM
#97
06-02-2018, 02:25 PM
#98
Le Mans Master
First of all, both GT3s and ZR1s are awesome cars. Considering all the other !@#!@ that's going on in the world, it is at least nice that we get to see these amazing cars on track.
To the OP, I would have to say that both these cars are insanely expensive to run, so it's sort of a mute point which is more expensive.
I consider myself a bottom-feeder racer with my C5Z and C4, yet the amount of money I spend on racing every year is more than what the average person spends to buy a new car. To be at the level of running a GT3 or ZR1 is just on a whole different level of insanity. I do know guys who run these cars, and I appreciate that they do. It's nice that not everyone who buys supercars just uses them for Starbucks runs.
I'll make one point that I have not seen others state. Consider the massive depreciation that your car will take if you use it for serious track duty. People who buy these cars used want a perfect, no-stories car. Besides the stone chips and such, just the fact that you have tracked either car will make it much harder to sell in a few years, especially when the warranty is expired.
To the OP, I would have to say that both these cars are insanely expensive to run, so it's sort of a mute point which is more expensive.
I consider myself a bottom-feeder racer with my C5Z and C4, yet the amount of money I spend on racing every year is more than what the average person spends to buy a new car. To be at the level of running a GT3 or ZR1 is just on a whole different level of insanity. I do know guys who run these cars, and I appreciate that they do. It's nice that not everyone who buys supercars just uses them for Starbucks runs.
I'll make one point that I have not seen others state. Consider the massive depreciation that your car will take if you use it for serious track duty. People who buy these cars used want a perfect, no-stories car. Besides the stone chips and such, just the fact that you have tracked either car will make it much harder to sell in a few years, especially when the warranty is expired.
Ain't that the truth, if you can afford to purchase one of these cars and then track them consistently, a couple or a few $1000 one way or the other doesn't matter even a little bit.
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desmophile (06-03-2018)
06-07-2018, 03:34 AM
#99
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Nov 2000
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2018 Z06/Z07 weight
I registrated my car today, weight without driver and full tank of fuel=3461
Signature Wheels is only change from stock, i estimate diff to be 30 pounds ?
Signature Wheels is only change from stock, i estimate diff to be 30 pounds ?
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Telepierre (06-07-2018)
06-07-2018, 09:03 AM
#100
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...sium-rims.html
So for what it's worth it..the internet says 15ish...+/- :-)
Last edited by Telepierre; 06-07-2018 at 09:05 AM.