ZR1 vs Huracan - Dig and Roll! :0
08-03-2018, 07:12 PM
#201
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Hasn't changed much, I guess! ;)
Generally, new cars are more expensive!
Viper's were death traps having a big torque truck motor and not even ABS.
I met one owner selling his after he scrapped it off a telephone pole. I think I was with my friend shopping Viper's. I'm Not that Good!
Last edited by johnglenntwo; 08-03-2018 at 07:15 PM.
08-04-2018, 11:52 PM
#202
I would have to go with driver skill level. It appears on this forum, a ZR1 fast list is posted. Stock ZR1 running 10.33 and 10.75.
Most of these head to head videos, these people are in the mid 11's. Granted the ZR1 is not built for just drag racing, but a 3 Dimensional performance car, that does everything well. But again, I would strike this up to driver error or not evenly matched skill.
I own a Huracan and an Aventador and a ZR1 and a Z06 and several others...they're all great cars.
But instead of head to head with two different people, why not the same person driving both cars.
Think that's more realistic
Th
Most of these head to head videos, these people are in the mid 11's. Granted the ZR1 is not built for just drag racing, but a 3 Dimensional performance car, that does everything well. But again, I would strike this up to driver error or not evenly matched skill.
I own a Huracan and an Aventador and a ZR1 and a Z06 and several others...they're all great cars.
But instead of head to head with two different people, why not the same person driving both cars.
Think that's more realistic
Th
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DebRedZR1 (08-16-2018)
08-10-2018, 09:37 AM
#205
Huracan vs AMG video has been put on youtube and those two are also neck to neck on a roll.
08-10-2018, 09:45 AM
#206
Race Director
It's very simple. GM can reduce the weight of the car. If not, then they have to use AWD and a DCT transmission. There is no other way.
08-10-2018, 02:07 PM
#207
Safety Car
Buyers are not idiots for not wanting a super cramped, far too late to be refined design. They took 2 generations too long to refine the product. It was hot (inside), cramped as heck, burned your legs getting in and out, sounded like a dumptruck, clunky shifter, poor interior etc. That's not what people wanted for a base price in the 70k range. As you know most of your business comes from return customers. Well the return customers for the Viper killed it. Dodge listened to their demands for too long. I'll get to that later. Even the Gen 5 was cramped, so in spite of all of the refinements, many guys didn't want to feel like they were in a pressure cooker. I'm 6'2 and have to tilt my head sideways with a helmet on.
Keep in mind that the Viper still needed a redesign to meet upcoming safety standards. And to fix the interior space. They just didn't have the following/money/support to make this a viable option. So it died, yet AGAIN.
The Gen 5 was the very first Viper with TRACTION CONTROL!!!!! Are you kidding me!?!? That's 2013 and 2014. And it's because the macho Viper owners club demanded it stay cavemanish. The Gen 4 was essentially the same as the Gen 3, they just called it a gen 4.......huh? I thought it looked fine, but the Viper crowd wanted the classic Gen 2 design back. This is what killed the Viper, lack of refinement and egotistical owners who wanted to beat their chest because their car didn't have traciton control. So old guys were still spinning off in ditches while going slow. They fought it until the bitter end, when it was a mandatory production standard. And even then, some were complaining.
I nearly bought a Gen 2 Viper as a track car when I instead bought my first Porsche Turbo, so I kept up with the Viper Club forums. I argued with those guys for pages on end why the Viper needed TC to survive. And like I said, almost monthly, they had a post of a dude spinning off in a ditch for no reason at low speeds. They said not to try to change the Viper because I couldn't handle one. Uh, WHAT?! I can't handle the car because I have the common sense to see that owners are driving in ditches? So I gave them a chance to see who it was that couldn't drive. Needless to say, no one wanted to put their money where their mouth was on that one. I offered to go to any track in the country. Crickets and excuses.
Most people knew pre Gen 5 Viper drivers as the slowest ones at the track. We had plenty show up in Gen 4 Vipers and get passed by miatas at a NARRA TT event in 2012/2013, but it was a common sight. Most of them were scared to death of the car. Mucho bravado, but really chickens inside. I saw literally one good driver in a Gen 4 ACR, last name was campbell and he used to frequent VIR. Ralph Gilles himself, Luke, Gary and several other guys have been mauling people at various tracks in Gen 5's, so the Gen 5 was the right car. It was still too tight inside to be a mainstream success, but the interior finishing was the BOMB!!!! It was just too little too late to be a mainstream success. All because of the chest beating VOI (Viper Owners Invitational) crowd. It's ok not to want something that's like a Corvette, which was their primary gripe, but they took it too far, and killed the marquee, because dodge listened to them to a fault. The Gen 5 was the car they needed at Gen 3. Refined and with TC. But they held the mantra about 10 years too long.
Oh, and by the way, they weren't gonna take too kindly to something other than a honkin V10 in spite of emissions standards coming to kill it. Hard headed bunch, that crowd.
Keep in mind that the Viper still needed a redesign to meet upcoming safety standards. And to fix the interior space. They just didn't have the following/money/support to make this a viable option. So it died, yet AGAIN.
The Gen 5 was the very first Viper with TRACTION CONTROL!!!!! Are you kidding me!?!? That's 2013 and 2014. And it's because the macho Viper owners club demanded it stay cavemanish. The Gen 4 was essentially the same as the Gen 3, they just called it a gen 4.......huh? I thought it looked fine, but the Viper crowd wanted the classic Gen 2 design back. This is what killed the Viper, lack of refinement and egotistical owners who wanted to beat their chest because their car didn't have traciton control. So old guys were still spinning off in ditches while going slow. They fought it until the bitter end, when it was a mandatory production standard. And even then, some were complaining.
I nearly bought a Gen 2 Viper as a track car when I instead bought my first Porsche Turbo, so I kept up with the Viper Club forums. I argued with those guys for pages on end why the Viper needed TC to survive. And like I said, almost monthly, they had a post of a dude spinning off in a ditch for no reason at low speeds. They said not to try to change the Viper because I couldn't handle one. Uh, WHAT?! I can't handle the car because I have the common sense to see that owners are driving in ditches? So I gave them a chance to see who it was that couldn't drive. Needless to say, no one wanted to put their money where their mouth was on that one. I offered to go to any track in the country. Crickets and excuses.
Most people knew pre Gen 5 Viper drivers as the slowest ones at the track. We had plenty show up in Gen 4 Vipers and get passed by miatas at a NARRA TT event in 2012/2013, but it was a common sight. Most of them were scared to death of the car. Mucho bravado, but really chickens inside. I saw literally one good driver in a Gen 4 ACR, last name was campbell and he used to frequent VIR. Ralph Gilles himself, Luke, Gary and several other guys have been mauling people at various tracks in Gen 5's, so the Gen 5 was the right car. It was still too tight inside to be a mainstream success, but the interior finishing was the BOMB!!!! It was just too little too late to be a mainstream success. All because of the chest beating VOI (Viper Owners Invitational) crowd. It's ok not to want something that's like a Corvette, which was their primary gripe, but they took it too far, and killed the marquee, because dodge listened to them to a fault. The Gen 5 was the car they needed at Gen 3. Refined and with TC. But they held the mantra about 10 years too long.
Oh, and by the way, they weren't gonna take too kindly to something other than a honkin V10 in spite of emissions standards coming to kill it. Hard headed bunch, that crowd.
As for no TC, I'm with those guys. Do you want a raw machine or not? If resources are devoted to developing TC then those resource cannot be used to improve the chassis to be good out of the box. Is it better that you have a Corvette that's only fast with TC? I am in that crowd that doesn't care how fast Corvettes are with TC on. Maybe the slow Viper guys on track have the most fun and are great drivers despite slow lap times. A good car will teach you how to go fast in any other car and on every track. If you can master a fully mechanical V10 monster I bet you'll do fine with the self driving ***** cats.
Look at Chris Harris's review of the Viper ACR-E. He gloats about it and says you should check one out if shopping for a GT3. That's the best review of a non-GT3 I ever heard from him. Do you think a Corvette with TC and AH will ever receive international praise the same way the ACR-E did?
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NocarbutaVetteforme (08-15-2018)
08-12-2018, 09:26 PM
#208
Yes, it is slow because of the big wing! So why it is not fast enough to kill those cars on the corners!
To me, C7 generation is a big failure in term of performance.
I’m sorry to say that.
I think GM is realizing this fact! and that’s why they will reveal the new ME C8 very early!
08-13-2018, 01:02 PM
#210
Melting Slicks
08-14-2018, 11:59 AM
#212
Safety Car
The cabin is a matchbox for sure. But how different is that than what McLaren builds? Every time two guys sit in a McLaren they're touching shoulders. There are so many exotics where the seats are right next to eachother it's hard to miss. The Corvette is in its own class in terms of cabin room. However, it also pays the price. When the C7 can't cut through air as well as other cars and folks wonder why it has so much drag, you got cabin room to thank for that in part. Do you want a family car or a sports car? I think Europeans are used to cramming adults in the back of a 911 and to hold hands in the front seats of many Euro sports cars. It is understood there is a price to pay for having a low drag sports car.
As for no TC, I'm with those guys. Do you want a raw machine or not? If resources are devoted to developing TC then those resource cannot be used to improve the chassis to be good out of the box. Is it better that you have a Corvette that's only fast with TC? I am in that crowd that doesn't care how fast Corvettes are with TC on. Maybe the slow Viper guys on track have the most fun and are great drivers despite slow lap times. A good car will teach you how to go fast in any other car and on every track. If you can master a fully mechanical V10 monster I bet you'll do fine with the self driving ***** cats.
Look at Chris Harris's review of the Viper ACR-E. He gloats about it and says you should check one out if shopping for a GT3. That's the best review of a non-GT3 I ever heard from him. Do you think a Corvette with TC and AH will ever receive international praise the same way the ACR-E did?
As for no TC, I'm with those guys. Do you want a raw machine or not? If resources are devoted to developing TC then those resource cannot be used to improve the chassis to be good out of the box. Is it better that you have a Corvette that's only fast with TC? I am in that crowd that doesn't care how fast Corvettes are with TC on. Maybe the slow Viper guys on track have the most fun and are great drivers despite slow lap times. A good car will teach you how to go fast in any other car and on every track. If you can master a fully mechanical V10 monster I bet you'll do fine with the self driving ***** cats.
Look at Chris Harris's review of the Viper ACR-E. He gloats about it and says you should check one out if shopping for a GT3. That's the best review of a non-GT3 I ever heard from him. Do you think a Corvette with TC and AH will ever receive international praise the same way the ACR-E did?
I'm as raw as they come, I want raw on the track. TC in torrential downpours is ok. Or for people with lesser driving skill. It's spartan but if you want to sell more cars, it helps to know that all buyers aren't great drivers. We are talking about marketability not machismo.
I already said the Gen 5 was the right car. But came too late. And STILL, it needed to be redesigned for curtain airbags I believe. Whatever the case, the chassy needed redesigning to meet upcoming safety standards.
And BTW, the non-Acr Viper has one of the worst drag coefficients in a sports car. So that super tight interior got you what?
Last edited by heavychevy; 08-14-2018 at 12:03 PM.
08-14-2018, 01:18 PM
#213
Safety Car
You left out the ankle burning, horrible exhaust sound and poor build quality interior for such a high price point. And the nail in the coffin, the American rival that is more refined, more civilized, has more amenities, options, safety features and handles better. The CORVETTE.
I'm as raw as they come, I want raw on the track. TC in torrential downpours is ok. Or for people with lesser driving skill. It's spartan but if you want to sell more cars, it helps to know that all buyers aren't great drivers. We are talking about marketability not machismo.
I already said the Gen 5 was the right car. But came too late. And STILL, it needed to be redesigned for curtain airbags I believe. Whatever the case, the chassy needed redesigning to meet upcoming safety standards.
And BTW, the non-Acr Viper has one of the worst drag coefficients in a sports car. So that super tight interior got you what?
I'm as raw as they come, I want raw on the track. TC in torrential downpours is ok. Or for people with lesser driving skill. It's spartan but if you want to sell more cars, it helps to know that all buyers aren't great drivers. We are talking about marketability not machismo.
I already said the Gen 5 was the right car. But came too late. And STILL, it needed to be redesigned for curtain airbags I believe. Whatever the case, the chassy needed redesigning to meet upcoming safety standards.
And BTW, the non-Acr Viper has one of the worst drag coefficients in a sports car. So that super tight interior got you what?
I actually like the exhaust sound. It's like a giant spaceship passing by, and it is unique. From inside the car it has some of the fury of non-OHV V10s, granted saddled to low rpm shifts.
Perhaps a nice interior circa early 2000s, fully defeatable TC, and no ankle burns would have made the car a selling success. And yes, maybe not too much lost of the ethos to keep a car alive.
08-14-2018, 04:05 PM
#214
Safety Car
Between you and I, totally get what you mean by machismo and too much of it at times re. Viper. However, in the grand scheme of things, ask anyone whether 'Vettes fit the bill and you get machismo back nearly 100%. Every-time you fire up the 'Vette your neighbors yell out machismo.
I actually like the exhaust sound. It's like a giant spaceship passing by, and it is unique. From inside the car it has some of the fury of non-OHV V10s, granted saddled to low rpm shifts.
Perhaps a nice interior circa early 2000s, fully defeatable TC, and no ankle burns would have made the car a selling success. And yes, maybe not too much lost of the ethos to keep a car alive.
I actually like the exhaust sound. It's like a giant spaceship passing by, and it is unique. From inside the car it has some of the fury of non-OHV V10s, granted saddled to low rpm shifts.
Perhaps a nice interior circa early 2000s, fully defeatable TC, and no ankle burns would have made the car a selling success. And yes, maybe not too much lost of the ethos to keep a car alive.
But instead I saw plenty of guys go into the Viper forums and say they wanted or had bought a Viper but asked how to add TC and got run out of the place for asking. I can't stand fake gangsters, especially internet tough guys who can't really drive but want to pretend they can because their car doesn't have TC. Who needs a spartan car to get groceries, or go out to dinner and a movie. It's ok to turn down the macho sometimes.
But not for the Viper crowd. Maximum faux tough guys.
I actually love the Viper, just can't stand the crowd it attracts. (for the most part of course).
Last edited by heavychevy; 08-14-2018 at 04:07 PM.
08-15-2018, 06:51 PM
#215
Drifting
Pretty much nailed it.
A few years ago, it was comical when various Viper owners would lecture on this forum about how manly they were for owning a Viper. In fact, that's what is commonly seen even on the Viper forum(s).
The car just never really advanced much. I had a Gen II, sent it to Underground and then had an 950 rwhp car that was a blast to drive, but woefully outdated in 2008. In 2012, the Gen V's were introduced and SRT had a big display at the NYIAS. That same day, I was scheduled to pick up my '13 GT-R at Meadowlands Nissan. But in case I decided to get the Viper instead, I drove over the Jacob Javits on the way to pick up the GT-R. The end result is that I still went and bought the GT-R, lol.
I love my ACR, but as you know, they have their own issues as Luke and Gary will attest. I bought a Gen V because of the ACR. And yeah, it's tight. I have to contort to get into the car with my helmet on and it's actually easier to put on my HANS in the car.
S.
S.
A few years ago, it was comical when various Viper owners would lecture on this forum about how manly they were for owning a Viper. In fact, that's what is commonly seen even on the Viper forum(s).
The car just never really advanced much. I had a Gen II, sent it to Underground and then had an 950 rwhp car that was a blast to drive, but woefully outdated in 2008. In 2012, the Gen V's were introduced and SRT had a big display at the NYIAS. That same day, I was scheduled to pick up my '13 GT-R at Meadowlands Nissan. But in case I decided to get the Viper instead, I drove over the Jacob Javits on the way to pick up the GT-R. The end result is that I still went and bought the GT-R, lol.
I love my ACR, but as you know, they have their own issues as Luke and Gary will attest. I bought a Gen V because of the ACR. And yeah, it's tight. I have to contort to get into the car with my helmet on and it's actually easier to put on my HANS in the car.
S.
S.
As for the ZR1, it's a great car. Does what it is supposed to do for a pretty low price in the high performance scheme of things. You have to pay to play. It's just that with the ZR1 you don't have to pay as much as others do.
08-16-2018, 09:03 AM
#216
Safety Car
I don't know what he said before but that post was hardly bashing. And neither was mine. Every car has faults. Pointing them out and the reasons for them is not bashing. Besides most agree the Gen 5 Viper is a great car. The gens 3 and 4 are the ones that failed to draw a sufficient audience.
08-17-2018, 10:51 PM
#218
Team Owner
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 3.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 9.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.7 sec
Zero to 170 mph: 19.9 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 3.8 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.8 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 212 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 134 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.18 g
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 3.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 1.9 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.4 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (redline ltd, mfr's claim): 202 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 144 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.01 g
Not so bad!
Oh, it gets worse!
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.3 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 100 mph: 5.4 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 180 mph: 23.2 sec*
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 3.1 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Standing ¼-mile: 10.2 sec @ 136 mph; DR's/ Prep Track
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 202 mph*
Braking, 70-0 mph: 135 ft*
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.11 g*
Zero to 60 mph: 3.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 6.1 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 9.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.7 sec
Zero to 170 mph: 19.9 sec
Rolling start, 5–60 mph: 3.8 sec
Top gear, 30–50 mph: 1.8 sec
Top gear, 50–70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.8 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 212 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 134 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.18 g
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.5 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 5.7 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 13.3 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 3.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 1.9 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.0 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 10.4 sec @ 135 mph
Top speed (redline ltd, mfr's claim): 202 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 144 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.01 g
Not so bad!
Oh, it gets worse!
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 2.3 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 100 mph: 5.4 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Zero to 180 mph: 23.2 sec*
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 3.1 sec; DR's/ Prep Track
Standing ¼-mile: 10.2 sec @ 136 mph; DR's/ Prep Track
Top speed (drag limited, mfr's claim): 202 mph*
Braking, 70-0 mph: 135 ft*
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 1.11 g*
