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AWD Dyno for ERay comparison to Z06 and StingRay. On paper, the ERay looks superior to the Z06 up to 6k rpm.
It will be interesting to see Edmunds U-Drag between these two cars. My guess is that it will be close with the ERay edging out the win.
It would be interesting to see some calculations of what amount of torque each model is putting to the ground. Actual torque to the ground, not "wheel torque" as measured by a dyno since dynos attempt to remove gearing from the result.
Someone did the math to compare the C7 Z06 and C8 Z06 and it shows they both put similar torque to the ground, even though the engines put out very different amount of torque. It would be really interesting to see what the E-Ray is doing.
AWD Dyno for ERay comparison to Z06 and StingRay. On paper, the ERay looks superior to the Z06 up to 6k rpm.
It will be interesting to see Edmunds U-Drag between these two cars. My guess is that it will be close with the ERay edging out the win.
This graph is screwy and not apples to apples. The ERay graph shows dyno numbers at the wheels correct? The C8Z is not putting out 670hp at the wheels, more like almost 600whp from what I have seen (598) bone stock, nor is the Stingray putting out 495 at the wheels. Have to use a graph that compares all at the wheels or at the crank (bhp) to be able to read them together for comparison.
Here are the numbers from the same dyno (they all vary) as do cars, but at least it's at the same location.
This graph is screwy and not apples to apples. The ERay graph shows dyno numbers at the wheels correct? The C8Z is not putting out 670hp at the wheels, more like almost 600whp from what I have seen (598) bone stock, nor is the Stingray putting out 495 at the wheels. Have to use a graph that compares all at the wheels or at the crank (bhp) to be able to read them together for comparison.
Good eye Shinobi'sZ - My bad... this has been pointed out in the original post #1 of this thread. GM never published a BHP chart for all to see. I suppose there is no such engine dyno than can combine ICE rear and EV front... HA!
Regardless, even though the plots are skewed a bit, the point has been made and the visual differences are clearly identified.
This graph is screwy and not apples to apples. The ERay graph shows dyno numbers at the wheels correct? The C8Z is not putting out 670hp at the wheels, more like almost 600whp from what I have seen (598) bone stock, nor is the Stingray putting out 495 at the wheels. Have to use a graph that compares all at the wheels or at the crank (bhp) to be able to read them together for comparison.
Here are the numbers from the same dyno (they all vary) as do cars, but at least it's at the same location.
I'm not sure about the drivetrain loss for the ME and DCT combo, just using the old FE manual method of 15% drivetrain loss, 495hp minus 75hp (74.9x) equals 420hp at the wheels. So the SR dyno numbers on this particular graph actually reveal that the drivetrain loss is less with the ME/DCT combined together. Inversely if you take the SR numbers on the graph and multiply them by 1.15, the SR hp output would be 503hp. Again, even though these numbers came from the same shop and dyno, different days could yield slightly different results even with correction factors applied. But they should be relatively close.
calculate average horsepower over the shift extension
edited: not a vette expert, hoping some experts would chip in.
I just don’t care to take the time to do it, but I know average hp is what wins races and the results of the two cars are similar though the trap speed is generally higher on the Z06 which tells me it makes more average power through the gears as the graph seems to reflect. Two things that can skew outcomes are DA and battery drain, higher hp Z06 affected more by air quality though E-Ray falls off as battery power drops off. To many people want to look at peak numbers, but there’s more to it than that. Just like saying the LT6 doesn’t have torque, but not taking into consideration torque multiplication from steep gearing because it can rev 30% higher.
This graph is screwy and not apples to apples. The ERay graph shows dyno numbers at the wheels correct? The C8Z is not putting out 670hp at the wheels, more like almost 600whp from what I have seen (598) bone stock, nor is the Stingray putting out 495 at the wheels. Have to use a graph that compares all at the wheels or at the crank (bhp) to be able to read them together for comparison.
Here are the numbers from the same dyno (they all vary) as do cars, but at least it's at the same location.
Without rehashing the data about torque multiplication, gearing changes, operating RPM bands, etc...
I'd just like to take a moment and appreciate how the ER hits peak HP nearly 800 RPM lower than the SR; and peak torque 1100 RPM lower than the SR. And it is putting down 210 more torque than the Z06 at 2500 less RPM.
To me, this speaks loudly to the Z06 being something you need to wring out and the ER being "stomp and go". 600+ torque to the ground is insane. With AWD, this means the ER is virtually unbeatable from a dig by 99.9% of cars on the road. Precisely the god-tier performance that I knew the ER would be.
Without rehashing the data about torque multiplication, gearing changes, operating RPM bands, etc...
I'd just like to take a moment and appreciate how the ER hits peak HP nearly 800 RPM lower than the SR; and peak torque 1100 RPM lower than the SR. And it is putting down 210 more torque than the Z06 at 2500 less RPM.
To me, this speaks loudly to the Z06 being something you need to wring out and the ER being "stomp and go". 600+ torque to the ground is insane. With AWD, this means the ER is virtually unbeatable from a dig by 99.9% of cars on the road. Precisely the god-tier performance that I knew the ER would be.
Think Paragon Tests are easier to read, see differences. I just added curve matched hp and T, torque symbols and named the curve with same color.
lol.....the table I posted is from the Paragon dyno you just posted. Since there seemed to be a challenged with reading lines (original post graph). I chose to put up the numbers and didn't involve the shop's name to avoid any scrutiny as some on this forum have agendas. It's also why I caveated it with every shop, car, and dyno can be different.
Without rehashing the data about torque multiplication, gearing changes, operating RPM bands, etc...
I'd just like to take a moment and appreciate how the ER hits peak HP nearly 800 RPM lower than the SR; and peak torque 1100 RPM lower than the SR. And it is putting down 210 more torque than the Z06 at 2500 less RPM.
To me, this speaks loudly to the Z06 being something you need to wring out and the ER being "stomp and go". 600+ torque to the ground is insane. With AWD, this means the ER is virtually unbeatable from a dig by 99.9% of cars on the road. Precisely the god-tier performance that I knew the ER would be.
As you mentioned the gearing being steeper in the Z06 because of it’s higher rpm allows it to have better acceleration than if it had the stock gearing and the two aren’t that far apart in acceleration tests as you know, so the dyno numbers are somewhat misleading if just looking at them.
As you mentioned the gearing being steeper in the Z06 because of it’s higher rpm allows it to have better acceleration than if it had the stock gearing and the two aren’t that far apart in acceleration tests as you know, so the dyno numbers are somewhat misleading if just looking at them.
Makes you wonder if the Z51 gearing was available in the ER, what that would look like. Pretty sure the SR and ER gearing is the same. Of course, you'd have the same problem testing it that we have with slapping boost onto the LT2; we don't know how friendly the hybrid-drive will be with it.
The E-Ray isn't hampered with the DCT constant-rpm slip launch for the first ~1 second; at least it doesn't rely on it 100% as does the Stingray and Z06. That's almost 225 instant ft-lb of electric torque, plus the LT2 DCT slip launch; I'd have to give the 60-foot to the E-Ray over the Z06. BTW, the E-Ray has one additional controller between the gas pedal and the ECU, and that's the torque-based split controller. It takes the gas pedal position, interprets the torque request and decides the split between ICE and electric torque. Systems like this usually react well to ICE mods including SC up to a point, but the part throttle may not be exactly where a factory tune might wind up for seamless driveability. When HP Tuners obtained the cheat codes for C8 tuning, I'd bet this wasn't included, but an ECU-only tune would still go a long way here.
That's what I fear, that even if you did something like a gearing change--the mapping for the hybrid drive wouldn't be a match for the new power delivery; even though you've changed nothing on the LT2 itself.
The E-Ray isn't hampered with the DCT constant-rpm slip launch for the first ~1 second; at least it doesn't rely on it 100% as does the Stingray and Z06. That's almost 225 instant ft-lb of electric torque, plus the LT2 DCT slip launch; I'd have to give the 60-foot to the E-Ray over the Z06. BTW, the E-Ray has one additional controller between the gas pedal and the ECU, and that's the torque-based split controller. It takes the gas pedal position, interprets the torque request and decides the split between ICE and electric torque. Systems like this usually react well to ICE mods including SC up to a point, but the part throttle may not be exactly where a factory tune might wind up for seamless driveability. When HP Tuners obtained the cheat codes for C8 tuning, I'd bet this wasn't included, but an ECU-only tune would still go a long way here.
That’s why I’m surprised it has adjustable launch control
That’s why I’m surprised it has adjustable launch control
It's probably a good thing; the motor up front may help launch, but in the process if the ICE spins the rears it won't be a perfect launch. Some of the rear-motor hybrids from Italy and the UK, with the motor between the ICE and transmission, are using the rear motor as the launch control / traction control device since it responds almost instantly as compared to conventional launch control, and can quickly counter the ICE torque under spin conditions. Unfortunately front-only hybrids such as the E-Ray can't do that.
It's probably a good thing; the motor up front may help launch, but in the process if the ICE spins the rears it won't be a perfect launch. Some of the rear-motor hybrids from Italy and the UK, with the motor between the ICE and transmission, are using the rear motor as the launch control / traction control device since it responds almost instantly as compared to conventional launch control, and can quickly counter the ICE torque under spin conditions. Unfortunately front-only hybrids such as the E-Ray can't do that.
True. But there's also the AWD aspect. And with AWD and a loss of control, the answer is almost always "give it more gas". So unless you're in an extremely rare situation where you are straight-line accelerating and all 4 tires cut loose, I'd suspect that traction control is simply "MORE" from the front--up until the point where the 275's up front are also cutting loose.
At stock power levels--I don't see many if any situations where you are breaking loose all 4 275/345 tires. I'd love to see what TC off and stomping on it from a dig will do--but I doubt it even chirps the tires.
True. But there's also the AWD aspect. And with AWD and a loss of control, the answer is almost always "give it more gas". So unless you're in an extremely rare situation where you are straight-line accelerating and all 4 tires cut loose, I'd suspect that traction control is simply "MORE" from the front--up until the point where the 275's up front are also cutting loose.
At stock power levels--I don't see many if any situations where you are breaking loose all 4 275/345 tires. I'd love to see what TC off and stomping on it from a dig will do--but I doubt it even chirps the tires.
I hear ya and agree somewhat, AWD can do a lot, but there are cases I can think of...and traction control between 2 separate front and rear systems is very complex. We design powertrain control units and ecu's here among other things - and every single parameter and algorithm inside is adjustable, by us, but not necessarily by the end user. It's almost impossible to predict vehicle behavior down to the last nuance through simulation, and in some cases, it's better to hand off an adjustable parameter, like launch control, to the end user, than it is to lock it out. I'd guess that they've found a use case for launch control here, or realize that it -may- provide some benefits once out in the field for a certain set of conditions.
03-08-2024, 06:35 PM
Compare ERay dyno to Z06 dyno (graph overlay)
