New Spy Photos of GM's Mid-Engine Supercar - Sept 12, 2016
09-18-2016, 11:32 PM
#281
Burning Brakes
Why doesn't GM build a supercar, mid engine, AWD, blah, blah, blah to satisfy the needs of the rich who want a domestic car that can keep up with the Ferraris, Lambos, McLarens, Porsches, Ford GT's, etc and just keep on doing what it's doing with the Corvette? No one will cross shop a 100k Corvette and a 150k super "GM" and if they do, well it's a win win for GM. Call it a Cadillac if they want, it's one brand under the same umbrella, the money goes into the same bank account whether it's a Chev, Caddy or Pontiac.....it doesn't matter.
09-18-2016, 11:38 PM
#282
Team Owner
Well I do believe at 100-150k super car they are getting some cross shopping. I think the biggest reason to at least start it as a "corvette" is the following. There's alot of owners that can and well step up to a ME car. Cadillac just doesn't have that following and faithful.
Look at the main selling point of a Corvette, great performance at half the price of it's nearest competitor that it pretty much beats in every measurable category.
Last edited by themonk; 09-18-2016 at 11:39 PM.
09-18-2016, 11:40 PM
#283
Burning Brakes
Great question.
I'll tell you why a Porsche isn't part of my collection currently.
I'm terrified of owning a German car out of warranty, and I hate Porsche and eurosnobs.
I was willing to give GM a pass for the C7 because of budget constraints and the bailout.
But, if the base model C8 doesn't offer at lease a DCT and AWD, preferably mid engine, I will break down and join the dark side.
I'll tell you why a Porsche isn't part of my collection currently.
I'm terrified of owning a German car out of warranty, and I hate Porsche and eurosnobs.
I was willing to give GM a pass for the C7 because of budget constraints and the bailout.
But, if the base model C8 doesn't offer at lease a DCT and AWD, preferably mid engine, I will break down and join the dark side.
09-18-2016, 11:48 PM
#284
Burning Brakes
But will that same following who shelled out 60k for a base Stingray that is marginally slower than a 100k Z06 pay for a 150k base Corvette?
Look at the main selling point of a Corvette, great performance at half the price of it's nearest competitor that it pretty much beats in every measurable category.
Look at the main selling point of a Corvette, great performance at half the price of it's nearest competitor that it pretty much beats in every measurable category.
Sorry I totally misunderstood. Your basing or believing the starting point of an ME car to be roughly 150k? I believe if an ME car starts at 150k (world beater.) there'll absolutely be a front engine corvette still offered. I'm thinking if they move all C8's to ME then the base will be somewhere around 65k-70k. It would be a terrible idea to move all C8's to ME and start at 150k, that would probably hurt them a lot.
09-19-2016, 12:14 AM
#285
09-19-2016, 03:22 AM
#286
09-19-2016, 07:07 AM
#287
Corvette Enthusiast
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Troy & Dearborn, Michigan
Posts: 5,348
Received 935 Likes
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I never get the 911 comparisons. Honestly, that car is nice, but is actually overpriced, and I don't mean that because it's more expensive. I look at the options sheet, and things that cost $x on most brands (example vented seats), cost 2x on the 911. It's like Porsche knows they can overcharge.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
Last edited by LT1 Z51; 09-19-2016 at 07:08 AM.
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09-19-2016, 08:11 AM
#288
Race Director
Let's see....2021 (5 years from now) and whatever his name is demands that the C8 be $55K. And mid-engine. And have a DCT. And be AWD. Well, this is like the guys that whined when the C6 ZR1 came out:
"I'm not paying $125K for a Corvette. I'll buy when they're $5k off sticker"
And then they (C6 ZR1's) were $5k off and these same guys said:
"I'll buy when they're $10K off sticker"
And then they were $10K off sticker and these same guys said:
"I'm not buying because the dealers ruined the resale"
He thinks inflation DOESN'T exist. And compares out the door pricing of a C6 (during a mythic recession) to STICKER for a C7 and then complains about pricing. I've done the math and corrected him 3 different times (and he was under 3 different names) and EACH time he ignores it and keeps spewing the same tired, lack of knowledge rant.
You've tried to explain it, but I would offer that he doesn't WANT to understand it.
"I'm not paying $125K for a Corvette. I'll buy when they're $5k off sticker"
And then they (C6 ZR1's) were $5k off and these same guys said:
"I'll buy when they're $10K off sticker"
And then they were $10K off sticker and these same guys said:
"I'm not buying because the dealers ruined the resale"
He thinks inflation DOESN'T exist. And compares out the door pricing of a C6 (during a mythic recession) to STICKER for a C7 and then complains about pricing. I've done the math and corrected him 3 different times (and he was under 3 different names) and EACH time he ignores it and keeps spewing the same tired, lack of knowledge rant.
You've tried to explain it, but I would offer that he doesn't WANT to understand it.
09-19-2016, 08:21 AM
#289
Race Director
I never get the 911 comparisons. Honestly, that car is nice, but is actually overpriced, and I don't mean that because it's more expensive. I look at the options sheet, and things that cost $x on most brands (example vented seats), cost 2x on the 911. It's like Porsche knows they can overcharge.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
Speaking of the Alfa 4C, it is rumored that the car has 3 more years. Seems for all the bluster of folks wanting the "back to basic" sports car, no one actually BUYS it (see Viper also).
**Edit** I just looked it up on Good car/bad car. Alfa has sold 389 4c's through August this year in the U.S.
Last edited by jimmyb; 09-19-2016 at 08:32 AM.
09-19-2016, 08:31 AM
#290
Ferrari and Lamborghini might be alternatives performance-wise but they are also extremely strong brands and can price themselves accordingly (the figures I've seen for some ferrari services are ridiculous but owners accept it as part of the "ferrari experience", so we know these brands offer something more than just performance even though performance is the main ingredient).
The Audi R8 msrp starts at $162,900. A mid-engined C8 needs to look like a bargain in comparison to this. There is the ~$60k Porsche Cayman but then the C7 already matches that it seems and why compare to an entry-level Porsche? If a mid-engine C8 comes in at a $150k msrp it will still be considered a bargain and there will likely be enough buyers to justify its existence. Just like for the Audi R8.
09-19-2016, 08:59 AM
#291
Team Owner
I never get the 911 comparisons. Honestly, that car is nice, but is actually overpriced, and I don't mean that because it's more expensive. I look at the options sheet, and things that cost $x on most brands (example vented seats), cost 2x on the 911. It's like Porsche knows they can overcharge.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
09-19-2016, 09:57 AM
#292
Corvette Enthusiast
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Troy & Dearborn, Michigan
Posts: 5,348
Received 935 Likes
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618 Posts
Originally Posted by jschindler
You are a smart guy, but I'd love to know what you do for a living. Nothing is overpriced as long as there are as many people willing on paying the price that the manufacturer needs to make a fair profit and return on investment.
I'm an Engineer in automotive (I currently work at Ford). Electronics background, but worked in steering for 7 years now. Previously to my current job, I was a resident engineer for GM and before that Chrysler, it's how I know all 3 OEMs processes.
I've got friends at GM, Chrysler, and at major suppliers.
09-19-2016, 12:00 PM
#293
Speaking of the Alfa 4C, it is rumored that the car has 3 more years. Seems for all the bluster of folks wanting the "back to basic" sports car, no one actually BUYS it (see Viper also).
**Edit** I just looked it up on Good car/bad car. Alfa has sold 389 4c's through August this year in the U.S.
**Edit** I just looked it up on Good car/bad car. Alfa has sold 389 4c's through August this year in the U.S.
It's a little depressing a cool little car like the Fiat is selling only in the hundreds, but so is the Viper.
Well. If they are having trouble moving cars already produced now... it kinda follows logic to raise the price and produce fewer. Also, going mid-engine, what is the competition? The Audi R8 should be the closest alternative, right?
Ferrari and Lamborghini might be alternatives performance-wise but they are also extremely strong brands and can price themselves accordingly (the figures I've seen for some ferrari services are ridiculous but owners accept it as part of the "ferrari experience", so we know these brands offer something more than just performance even though performance is the main ingredient).
The Audi R8 msrp starts at $162,900. A mid-engined C8 needs to look like a bargain in comparison to this. There is the ~$60k Porsche Cayman but then the C7 already matches that it seems and why compare to an entry-level Porsche? If a mid-engine C8 comes in at a $150k msrp it will still be considered a bargain and there will likely be enough buyers to justify its existence. Just like for the Audi R8.
Ferrari and Lamborghini might be alternatives performance-wise but they are also extremely strong brands and can price themselves accordingly (the figures I've seen for some ferrari services are ridiculous but owners accept it as part of the "ferrari experience", so we know these brands offer something more than just performance even though performance is the main ingredient).
The Audi R8 msrp starts at $162,900. A mid-engined C8 needs to look like a bargain in comparison to this. There is the ~$60k Porsche Cayman but then the C7 already matches that it seems and why compare to an entry-level Porsche? If a mid-engine C8 comes in at a $150k msrp it will still be considered a bargain and there will likely be enough buyers to justify its existence. Just like for the Audi R8.
In spite of this, IMO kicking the price up to $150k will price it right out of the budgets of most folks.
Even if the ME starts as a Cadillac, $150k is probably too much...perhaps $120k would be a better target price?
With a similar setup to the NSX it could move pretty well.
09-19-2016, 02:34 PM
#294
4 times
I never get the 911 comparisons. Honestly, that car is nice, but is actually overpriced, and I don't mean that because it's more expensive. I look at the options sheet, and things that cost $x on most brands (example vented seats), cost 2x on the 911. It's like Porsche knows they can overcharge.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
I just can't understand why anyone is comparing a Corvette to anything other than a 911 Carrera or Carrera S. The 4S, Turbo, and Turbo S are basically the most overpriced cars (even compared to a Carrera S) because there is no way that a Turbo is a $200k car. Look at that price range, tons of "better" cars our there (like the DB11)
Further I don't understand why people think GM can (or should) build a Corvette which is basically a 4S and then sell it for sub-Z06 prices. That's never going to happen. Has anyone even looked at the price of a 4C. That's a CHEAP mid-engine car (like a modern Fiero) and it still costs $55k!
The median new car is $33k. Corvette at $55k, or even $65k is a steal. Lots of you guys aren't in touch with reality, or the technology behind cars. You will NEVER see a stripped down car for sale, even when you think you do (like the 911 GT3 RS) the car isn't ACTUALLY stripped down. It still has a lot of electronics and features.
Maybe they will bring out a four cylinder 911 to reduce the price!
Last edited by -vet; 09-19-2016 at 02:36 PM.
09-19-2016, 04:06 PM
#295
Race Director
09-19-2016, 04:35 PM
#296
Team Owner
09-19-2016, 04:35 PM
#297
Great question.
Yes. I've been buying new C5 and C6s, but skipped the C7.
I'll tell you why a Porsche isn't part of my collection currently.
I'm terrified of owning a German car out of warranty, and I hate Porsche and eurosnobs.
I was willing to give GM a pass for the C7 because of budget constraints and the bailout.
But, if the base model C8 doesn't offer at least a DCT and AWD, preferably mid engine and turbos,
then I WILL break down and join the dark side.
Yes. I've been buying new C5 and C6s, but skipped the C7.
I'll tell you why a Porsche isn't part of my collection currently.
I'm terrified of owning a German car out of warranty, and I hate Porsche and eurosnobs.
I was willing to give GM a pass for the C7 because of budget constraints and the bailout.
But, if the base model C8 doesn't offer at least a DCT and AWD, preferably mid engine and turbos,
then I WILL break down and join the dark side.
09-19-2016, 04:50 PM
#298
09-19-2016, 04:52 PM
#299
Race Director
Practically NO ONE orders a stripped 911.
Better?
It's the same with Corvettes, what's the percentage of 1LT/1LZ cars sold. Bet it's really low.
Last edited by jimmyb; 09-19-2016 at 04:52 PM.
09-19-2016, 05:01 PM
#300
I have just under $58,500 into this C7 and what a value.
..