Mid-Engine C8 Corvette to boast near six-figure price, arrive in 2019
05-18-2017, 04:24 PM
#21
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I'm a buyer for a mid-engine Corvette at <$100K. We'll see if such a beast emerges or not.
05-18-2017, 08:27 PM
#22
IF the base price is really 89K, then reality is one equipped with the must-have options will easily crest into 6 figures. I'm not convinced the Corvette can do the volume it needs to do at that price point, and if it IS going to survive at that price point it will have to be really really good IMO.
05-18-2017, 09:16 PM
#23
Race Director
Just because someone decided the c8 will base at 89 grand doesn't mean it will.
The 89 grand msrp is conjecture at best.
The 89 grand msrp is conjecture at best.
05-19-2017, 02:40 AM
#24
I don't believe GM would be so dumb as to make that BIG of a price jump between generations.
05-19-2017, 07:43 AM
#25
Team Owner
It is about profit, not the cars sold.
Would 89K get me into a ME car, depends on the equipment level. Too many unknown variables. 89K and 430hp or 89k and 550hp?
If they are going after Porsche one things Porsches do well is leasing. Corvette's do not lease well, if at all.
If they go ME then the other would be AWD. A lot of the ME market is AWD.
89K with AWD? I'd be all over it.
05-19-2017, 02:38 PM
#26
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They have already indicated the C7 will run for two years in conjunction with the C8. That may be the C7 ZR1 but why limit the selection since there is little assembly difference between a ZR1 and a base car? That way they do the opposite of what GM has done for a lot of decades bring out a low performing car first and then upgrade it (remember the Fiero, if they had introduced the 88 model in 84 we would probably see that car on the market today).
With this big change they could bring the upscale Mid Engine car first and then bring in the lower content cars later. Bringing the car into the market first as a low content lower performing vehicle could get a lot of bad press comparisons so I could see them going for the long ball out of the park on the first iteration, hitting the market with a super performance machine that will match super car performance thus whetting appetites Vs disappointing them.
As the C7 goes off to pasture then they can bring a mid engine down level content car on the market. From an assembly and factory cost stand point there is little difference in cost from building a low content car to building a high content car. Figure the industry average of less than 20 hours to assemble vehicles of any type and the only other differences are in the cost of the sub-assemblies they choose. Done right some of the hardware will be the same and the only thing that changes is the software load. I bet if you could look at GM's numbers you would see that they can build a Corvette for about the same cost as they do a Cruze or a Burb. However, just like the Burb they can charge more for it.
Bill
With this big change they could bring the upscale Mid Engine car first and then bring in the lower content cars later. Bringing the car into the market first as a low content lower performing vehicle could get a lot of bad press comparisons so I could see them going for the long ball out of the park on the first iteration, hitting the market with a super performance machine that will match super car performance thus whetting appetites Vs disappointing them.
As the C7 goes off to pasture then they can bring a mid engine down level content car on the market. From an assembly and factory cost stand point there is little difference in cost from building a low content car to building a high content car. Figure the industry average of less than 20 hours to assemble vehicles of any type and the only other differences are in the cost of the sub-assemblies they choose. Done right some of the hardware will be the same and the only thing that changes is the software load. I bet if you could look at GM's numbers you would see that they can build a Corvette for about the same cost as they do a Cruze or a Burb. However, just like the Burb they can charge more for it.
Bill
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05-20-2017, 11:27 AM
#27
Burning Brakes
For argument's sake, lets say the ME is built and GM doesn't go "cheap" on the build and purchase price runs well into 6-figure territory.
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!!
Talk about a horror movie....
Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!!
Talk about a horror movie....Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
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05-20-2017, 02:32 PM
#29
Premium Supporting Dealership
For argument's sake, lets say the ME is built and GM doesn't go "cheap" on the build and purchase price runs well into 6-figure territory.
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!! Talk about a horror movie....
Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!!
Talk about a horror movie....Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
05-20-2017, 04:16 PM
#30
Race Director
For argument's sake, lets say the ME is built and GM doesn't go "cheap" on the build and purchase price runs well into 6-figure territory.
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!! Talk about a horror movie....
Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
Who in their right mind would buy one and have a Chevrolet dealer work on it!!
Talk about a horror movie....Now lets assume the ME is built and kept in reasonable purchase price territory for the masses---base around $65-70k. Where are the cost trade-offs? Given the technology in cars today--I can't see Corvette enthusiasts (in mass) accepting less technology, or less quality....the bar has been set.
IMHO, the only reasonable result I come up with is: a ME well into 6-figures branded under Cadillac (as has been discussed here numerous times).
GM could branch Corvette off into its own brand but getting dealerships developed across the US to support the new brand, would require long-range planning (hmmmm....new paint shop? new factory? dealerships preparing for the new brand), time, $$$'s and a lot of training prior to the release. Which also means a lot of people "in the know" and we all know some people just can't keep a secret.
if the ME isn't initially branded under Cadillac, I just don't see a profitable market as a GM, Chevrolet dealer product.....of course, my wife reminds me I've been wrong many times before!
That is why I believe the rear mid engine corvette will launch with an expensive example first and run concurrently with the last two years of the c7.
Once the ultra high expensive model begins to lose sales steam...the platform will evolve to include an LT1 500 ho engine for five grand more than the c7 z51""(to pay for the transaxle) ...
Also I expect a z06 priced version to arrive with LT4 hp levels again for about five grand more than the c7 z06 present msrp (-again to pay for the transaxle)
That's a rational and good guess on my part.
I believe the shared Cadillac platform aspect precludes the corvette team of releasing the 500 hp LT1 powered model at first release.
All of this conjecture on my part...
We will of course have to wait and see..
05-20-2017, 05:56 PM
#31
I'm already at the limit with a 6-figure Z06 in terms of taking it to a Chevy dealer.
No way am I buying a mid-engine Corvette and bringing it to a Chevy dealer. If they want to make a mid-engine car at a minimum it should be a Cadillac.
I also think calling it a Corvette is dumb. Corvette's aren't mid engine cars.
No way am I buying a mid-engine Corvette and bringing it to a Chevy dealer. If they want to make a mid-engine car at a minimum it should be a Cadillac.
I also think calling it a Corvette is dumb. Corvette's aren't mid engine cars.
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05-20-2017, 09:02 PM
#32
Race Director
I have PAul Koerner at Jackson Chevrolet in Middletown Ct service both my corvette and my Cadillac.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Has any one ever taken their car to a Ferrari dealer for service?
When the bill comes ferrari owners are certainly welcome to bend over to make it easier to take it in the @ss..
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Has any one ever taken their car to a Ferrari dealer for service?
When the bill comes ferrari owners are certainly welcome to bend over to make it easier to take it in the @ss..
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
05-21-2017, 10:14 AM
#33
Team Owner
I have PAul Koerner at Jackson Chevrolet in Middletown Ct service both my corvette and my Cadillac.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
I had Marty Feldman Chevy in Novi give me back my C7 with black soot all over it, not a little, pretty much every square inch. When I complained they washed it and drove it back in soaking wet.
My guess is if there is going to be a FE and ME variant then the frame will be modular or adaptable. Maybe the same frame, maybe the same physical frame but welded differently at the supplier.
Front/Rear cradle that will take both engine and suspension setups, weld it onto the center section.
That IMO seems unlikely...It is either going to be all ME, or Cadillac ME, Corvette FE until a merged redesign.
05-21-2017, 10:50 AM
#34
Burning Brakes
I have PAul Koerner at Jackson Chevrolet in Middletown Ct service both my corvette and my Cadillac.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Has any one ever taken their car to a Ferrari dealer for service?
When the bill comes ferrari owners are certainly welcome to bend over to make it easier to take it in the @ss..
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
The service is fantastic.
I would gladly bring a rear mid engine corvette for service at Jackson Chevrolet.
Has any one ever taken their car to a Ferrari dealer for service?
When the bill comes ferrari owners are certainly welcome to bend over to make it easier to take it in the @ss..
Same for the other Italian and German brand dealerships..
Just my opinion and said in some degree of jest.
Glad you have a dealer you can trust and depend upon. There may be hundreds of other chevy dealerships just as good around the country. Unfortunately, my experience with chevy dealers has been dismal. Oily fingerprints on the fenders and hood, dirty/oily steering wheel/gear shift **** hand & fingerprints….etc. Not to mention how many times I’ve had to return my C5 for the same issue(s). Point being, even if the dealer does handle ones car with kid gloves, they are still going to charge $$$’s for their service and parts….and $$$$$’s for ME service and parts.I can’t say this with any certainty, because I’ve never owned a ME car, but I doubt ME’s lend themselves to being as cost efficient to work on as a FE. And I would suspect most ME owners will not be DIYers since it will require a lift, equipment, tools, manuals, etc…..more $$$$’s.
So when an issue occurs, or just a simple oil change is needed—Ka Ching—$$$$’s. It may not be a Ferrari “ka-ching” but you’re probably still going to need some lube to help ease the pain.
Last edited by WesC7; 05-21-2017 at 10:51 AM.
05-21-2017, 12:49 PM
#35
Got Boost?!
I'm already at the limit with a 6-figure Z06 in terms of taking it to a Chevy dealer.
No way am I buying a mid-engine Corvette and bringing it to a Chevy dealer. If they want to make a mid-engine car at a minimum it should be a Cadillac.
I also think calling it a Corvette is dumb. Corvette's aren't mid engine cars.
No way am I buying a mid-engine Corvette and bringing it to a Chevy dealer. If they want to make a mid-engine car at a minimum it should be a Cadillac.
I also think calling it a Corvette is dumb. Corvette's aren't mid engine cars.
05-21-2017, 01:57 PM
#36
Team Owner
I am pretty sure it is select dealers and they pick your car up and drop off.
05-21-2017, 02:13 PM
#37
Got Boost?!
05-23-2017, 02:38 AM
#38
Le Mans Master
Michael
05-23-2017, 06:01 AM
#39
Race Director
Glad you have a dealer you can trust and depend upon. There may be hundreds of other chevy dealerships just as good around the country. Unfortunately, my experience with chevy dealers has been dismal. Oily fingerprints on the fenders and hood, dirty/oily steering wheel/gear shift **** hand & fingerprints….etc. Not to mention how many times I’ve had to return my C5 for the same issue(s). Point being, even if the dealer does handle ones car with kid gloves, they are still going to charge $$$’s for their service and parts….and $$$$$’s for ME service and parts.I can’t say this with any certainty, because I’ve never owned a ME car, but I doubt ME’s lend themselves to being as cost efficient to work on as a FE. And I would suspect most ME owners will not be DIYers since it will require a lift, equipment, tools, manuals, etc…..more $$$$’s.
So when an issue occurs, or just a simple oil change is needed—Ka Ching—$$$$’s. It may not be a Ferrari “ka-ching” but you’re probably still going to need some lube to help ease the pain.
I travel about about an hour and forty minutes to be able to utilize the dealership that delivers excellence in service. I could travel twenty minutes and go to three relatively local dealerships that could offer good service but I prefer excellence.
I will say when you treat the service staff like the wonderful people they are...all of a sudden they wake up to the idea of delivering excellence...
It's a beautiful thing to behold.
Treat people like crap and never go back..overcharge for work and never go back...
It doesn't take long to find out which organizations work to earn your business....
Dealerships are privately owned and operated...
Shop the service centers as you would anything else..
I drive let's say 2 hours each way but I make a 730 am appointment and leave as the sun is rising. The ride is phenomenal and I'm the first one in and out ...because they enjoy seeing me and I honestly get treated extremely well,,,,and everyone is smiling..
Go to a BMW or Mercedes dealership and get ready to bend over...Ferrari and Maserati even more so..
I had a relatively rare turbocharged mid engine Italian car many decades ago...and I held onto it for many many years....
Servicing that car was not that difficult as access was good...the reliability was suspect...I put on over 200k miles and finding an independent mechanic as they were called in those days was a requirement to surviving.
I remember as a kid my dads itailian sports cars even promoted Sunday dinners at my home out in Long Island with the independent mechanic coming with his family for Sunday dinner to also work on dads spiders..
Owning a Ferrari, Lamborghini, ,maseratis , lotus, is ridiculous...
BMW Mercedes Audi repair costs are bend over..
The beauty of corvettes is the shared GM parts bin make owning this super sports car so reasonable over real world miles...
I imagine I'm in the minority that don't want dohc motors...I love ohv v8 s that share their design and block with the truck motors
Sure the cams different, the tunes different, maybe the oiling system is different...and we can if we like choose forced induction but for the most part....hundreds of thousands of these shared engines make these corvettes a no brainer to fix...
Where the engine gets placed doesn't cost more to oroduce....it's just the cost of the rear mid engine transaxle but it's been said an extra five grand should account for that...
Let Cadillac who has probably paid for the bowling green expansion offer up a super luxury version of the new rear mid engine car (twin turbo dohc v8) compete with the Audi R8 in v8 and v10 iterations...
What does that Audi sports car run in? 130 grand for the v8 and 200 grand for the v10 sport plus?
I'd imagine a 6.2 liter forced induction corvette mid engine corvette can top out at 120 grand for two years with sufficient demand from the ballers...
Then we will see 500 hp naturally aspirated LT1 v8 rear mid engine versions for five grand more than today's c7 z51 msrp...adding inflation of course..
There will be a wide bodied version with more power like today's grand sport and z06...as it's been a successful formula for GM..
Take a look at Chevys brand identity being harmonized throughout the United States...in building structures and you can see brand messaging is a strong point these days...
Consumer experience and excellence is paramount....
Just shop the service centers of the brand like you would price of a new vehicle....to me it holds a great degree of ownership satisfaction beyond paying the least amount
That's why I travel the distances I do....
In my mind I get in and out quicker even with all the drive time...I pay the fair and correct amount for the repairs and I never have to even imagine I would get ripped off....
Some people say they are too busy to travel an hour and forty minutes...I say I enjoy watching the sunrise the two or three times ayear I need service.....
If your real busy..just get triple A gold and they tow your car up..
Believe the German brand techs are not better.....they just separate you from them so you never know and they charge you so much more....most people think they are getting service...
And don't even get me started again on the Italian car dealers like Alfa, Ferrari Maserati or Lamborghini...
You guys complaining about Chevy dealerships need to soend a few years having your car serviced by jaguar or lotus dealerships...
Joking around of course...but I enjoy using my inexpensive to service and repair corvettes 1000 miles a month...
If my cost of use went to Ferrari or even Porsche levels....it would take a lot of the fun out of it...
Anybody can own and run a corvette and that's why it's so popular among the masses....
That's the reverse snobbery that makes this Americas sports car for 65 years...
I love smoking the German do italian car snobs ...as they get ready to hold their nose s up to polish their badges...
I like cars with no exterior badges at all...
Just ones that make me laugh a smile I drive them...
Rear mid engine cars have a nice light turn in feeling that even z51 cars presently are missing..
I'm in for a rear mid engine 500 hp v8 corvette starting around 65 grand...
This can be built profitable and maintain sales of 30k units a year...in my opinion.
Last edited by JerriVette; 05-23-2017 at 06:04 AM.
05-23-2017, 08:35 AM
#40
Team Owner