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Old 10-19-2017, 08:17 PM   #61
VETTE-NV
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Always wanted a Ferrari V12...

Forget the Powerball...DO IT!!
You know you want to...

BTW, here are some pics of the new Portofino:
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...=1508455775057
Stunning. I love it. Love the AM as well.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:45 PM   #62
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BTW, does anyone know how many Boxsters and Cayman's Porsche produces a year and how many are sold in the US ??
Those are girl cars. Unfortunately we can draw comparisons to to a corvette.
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Old 10-19-2017, 08:47 PM   #63
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The 2016 NSX sales number is a little misleading as the NSX didn't go into production until June 2016 and they only built 2 that first month.

While the NSX's sales have been way below Acura's expectations, that have built 355 NSX's in the first nine months of 2017. Still far below the ~2,000 annually that the NSX plant in Ohio was expected to produce annually. Even Acura saw the writing on the wall early on and changed their production estimates to 1,000 annually for the first year of production(900 for the US market and 100 for the Japanese market).

Kind of like GM's production estimates for the Volt. What GM said they would sale(revised downward early on, before the Volt went into production) wasn't even close to what they did sale. Same for the hybrid NSX. Seems people aren't all that interested in hybrid sports cars.
It because they make no sense. A performance increase at greatly elevated upfront and maintenance costs as well as lower resale value.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:11 PM   #64
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I agree.. to a point. Thing is most Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrari,..etc. owners also buy other cars. The "star power" model in their garage(s) isn't their only means of transportation, or fun. If something is offered with superior performance, exotic looks, is the new IN thing, they'll just add to the stable. The relative bargain price will be even more of an incentive to ****** one up.
I know this is going to sound as if I'm making it up, but Sunday, I was at a local car show.

Springfield is not a town with a lot of snobs. Most of us are just plain ole people that enjoy our cars.

I was parked between a Boxster(man in his late 60's I would guess) and a Corvette C7 coupe(man in his mid-late 40's I would guess. I(75) was in my 1964 Corvette coupe.

Three different cars and any of the three of us could afford each others car if we wanted to. But we three had cars we each wanted to own.

Most of the cars on display were "hot rods" and some extremely nice(and expensive) ones and most of the owners were old guys. Of the three cars parked together, I would guess more people were looking at my '64 than either the C7 or the Boxster. The C7 was getting more attention than the Boxster. In the "hard core" car people at the car show, the Porsche had no "star power", but to the general public, it does.

In another venue, I would guess the Boxster and the C7 would draw more attention, but in a hillbilly, redneck town, they aren't that hot a draw.

Maybe the younger guy with the C7(it was his daily driver but he also owns a 67 and a 68 Camaro, and an early 60's Chevy II with a 327/4 speed) would be interested in a mid engine Corvette, but I doubt that I or the Boxster owner(not his daily driver) would. The Boxster owner at that show is die hard Porsche fan and not interested in a Corvette.

The C7 owner and I are die hard Corvette fans and not interested in a owning a Porsche. I know that I'm not into "snob appeal" when deciding which car I buy.

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Old 10-19-2017, 09:14 PM   #65
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It because they make no sense. A performance increase at greatly elevated upfront and maintenance costs as well as lower resale value.
Exactly, and the reason I'm not lining up to by a mid engine hybrid Corvette. I am a hard core Corvette person and I have zero interest in a "make believe mid engine exotic sports car" that's an el cheapo copy cat of a real mid engine exotic sports car.

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Old Yesterday, 02:04 AM   #66
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Stunning. I love it.
In spite of the weird rear bumper(?), it's a big improvement over the California T (which is a big improvement over the initial California).
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Love the AM as well.
For many years I have felt the modern AM design is the most beautiful and perfected of all Grand Tourers.
Simple, elegant, straightforward...it's as good as it gets.
I would have one if there was a dealership nearby.
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Old Yesterday, 02:24 AM   #67
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It because they make no sense. A performance increase at greatly elevated upfront and maintenance costs as well as lower resale value.
And you just know what will come next - a lighter, faster NSX Speciale where they strip all that extra crap out, drop 500 lb.s, and increase gas engine the HP. And it will only cost you $50k more than the base model.....
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Old Yesterday, 09:19 AM   #68
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Aston martins look beautiful but the validation process from the factory is so poor I could not fathom the ownership experience..

Same for Maserati.

Better off if you want an exotic looking sports car to go with corvette(best validation process) or Porsche and then Ferrari.

Who has time for ridiculous maintaince any more.

The Acura NSX revolutionized the exotic car industry back then but today's example they recently brought out is such a messed up hybrid v6 electric sports car it is appealing to no one...

Just misses the mark for desireability.

Mclaren s 570 hits the mark but again the cost and the eventual repair and maintaince of such a low volume manufacturer makes this mistress too costly ..

The rear mid engine corvette with exotic looks, exotic layout, GM parts bin compatibility makes the future down the road LT1 sourced powertrains a smart choice for driving and ownership experience for normal everyday Americans.

Should first come out with LT5 powertrains and two years in hopefully GM will drop in the ~500 hp naturally aspirated LT1 derived motor that shares so much with the volume truck lineup for low cost kick @ss performance when used in the corvette
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Old Yesterday, 09:29 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
Exactly, and the reason I'm not lining up to by a mid engine hybrid Corvette. I am a hard core Corvette person and I have zero interest in a "make believe mid engine exotic sports car" that's an el cheapo copy cat of a real mid engine exotic sports car.

Ever hear of the Corvette Daytona Prototype? Been racing since 2012. Why would u suppose that GM and its engineers would not be capable of bringing out anything other than a "make believe mid engine exotic sports car that's an el cheapo copy cat of a real mid engine...."???
Why would wanting to limit yourself to a FE Corvette make u a hard core Corvette enthusiast?
To me Corvette symbolizes American ingenuity and the kind of "can do" capability to take it to the snobs over in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ferraris, Alfas, and some Porsches. But GM needs to step up its game. The Corvette must evolve or get left in the dust. And the Corvette nameplate doesn't deserve that. Its too important an American icon.
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Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by JerriVette View Post
Aston martins look beautiful but the validation process from the factory is so poor I could not fathom the ownership experience..

Same for Maserati.
I don't have a clue concerning their ownership experience.
I was merely referring to the aesthetics.
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Mclaren s 570 hits the mark but again the cost and the eventual repair and maintaince of such a low volume manufacturer makes this mistress too costly .
I have heard this before concerning the McLarens.
Again, I don't have any real world experience to offer on 'em, but other than the 1st gen 12C, they are great looking cars.
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The rear mid engine corvette with exotic looks, exotic layout, GM parts bin compatibility makes the future down the road LT1 sourced powertrains a smart choice for driving and ownership experience for normal everyday Americans.

Should first come out with LT5 powertrains and two years in hopefully GM will drop in the ~500 hp naturally aspirated LT1 derived motor that shares so much with the volume truck lineup for low cost kick @ss performance when used in the corvette
The ME absolutely NEEDS the LT5.
A revolutionary car demands a revolutionary engine.
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Ever hear of the Corvette Daytona Prototype? Been racing since 2012. Why would u suppose that GM and its engineers would not be capable of bringing out anything other than a "make believe mid engine exotic sports car that's an el cheapo copy cat of a real mid engine...."???
Why would wanting to limit yourself to a FE Corvette make u a hard core Corvette enthusiast?
That's just Joe being Joe....
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Old Yesterday, 01:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Dominic Sorresso View Post
Ever hear of the Corvette Daytona Prototype? Been racing since 2012. Why would u suppose that GM and its engineers would not be capable of bringing out anything other than a "make believe mid engine exotic sports car that's an el cheapo copy cat of a real mid engine...."???
Why would wanting to limit yourself to a FE Corvette make u a hard core Corvette enthusiast?
To me Corvette symbolizes American ingenuity and the kind of "can do" capability to take it to the snobs over in Europe. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Ferraris, Alfas, and some Porsches. But GM needs to step up its game. The Corvette must evolve or get left in the dust. And the Corvette nameplate doesn't deserve that. Its too important an American icon.
What I see on this forum is some guys that really want a Lambo, etc but can't afford one so they want GM to build an "el cheapo copy cat" of a Lambo, etc that is within their budget. Those same people also realize that if GM builds a front engine Corvettes simultaneously with a mid engine Corvette that the volume of mid engine Corvettes is going to be low thus necessitating a high price tag for the mid engine Corvette.

Thus they want all Corvettes to be mid engine, so that there will be a higher volume to help spread the costs around.

They are being very selfish in their thinking. They want Corvette people that are not interested in a mid engine Corvette to subsidize their desire to own a "el cheapo copy cat" of a Lambo etc.

If GM builds a mid engine Corvette, it won't be at the expense of the traditional front engine Corvette, so that "el cheapo copy cat" mid engine Corvette is not going to be priced at $5,000 more than a front engine Corvette, as some believe.
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Old Yesterday, 01:22 PM   #72
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“The ME absolutely NEEDS the LT5.
A revolutionary car demands a revolutionary engine.”

Being a C4 ZR-1 owner, I could not agree more. The DOHC LT5 is seductive to drive. The power curve up to 7000rpm is intoxicating. It makes the car just a whole nother thing. In particular, drive one that has some basic mods done to it (porting and headers) and developing 500+ chp. That’s the car GM should have built in the 90s.
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Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
What I see on this forum is some guys that really want a Lambo, etc but can't afford one so they want GM to build an "el cheapo copy cat" of a Lambo, etc that is within their budget. Those same people also realize that if GM builds a front engine Corvettes simultaneously with a mid engine Corvette that the volume of mid engine Corvettes is going to be low thus necessitating a high price tag for the mid engine Corvette.

Thus they want all Corvettes to be mid engine, so that there will be a higher volume to help spread the costs around.

They are being very selfish in their thinking. They want Corvette people that are not interested in a mid engine Corvette to subsidize their desire to own a "el cheapo copy cat" of a Lambo etc.

If GM builds a mid engine Corvette, it won't be at the expense of the traditional front engine Corvette, so that "el cheapo copy cat" mid engine Corvette is not going to be priced at $5,000 more than a front engine Corvette, as some believe.

The following remarks are meant with the best intentions.

You arrogantly assume you know the financial status of everyone on this forum, what they want, and what they're going to get. You, who claim to be a hard-core Corvette guy, are insulting the car by assuming whatever GM does will be nothing more than a cheap copycat. So what's the deal? Do you see anything that isn't a C6 Z06 as a threat to you and your comfort zone? Are you truly in fear of change, progress, and evolution?

I can afford any car I want (well...maybe not a Veyron...although I did ride in Floyd's while shooting him for All Access) and I'm currently contemplating doing a bucket list (pardon the expression) car while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. My heart, however, is still in the Corvette, the car I have owned and loved since I was old enough to drive. I'm going to wait and see what the mid-engine model brings before I make any decision.

As far as your remark that I have no respect for senior citizens, you couldn't be more wrong. In my business, I work with many people. For example, I spent two days with Tony Bennett last year. I have never seen a more energetic, open-minded, and productive individual. When he's not singing, he's painting. When he's not painting, he's working on improving his already brilliant show. I was astounded at his work ethic and they way he embraces the new....how he embraces life, young people, and progress in general. And he does it all without disrespecting the young just because he is old. He gets joy from learning new things and he literally wore me out with his perfectionism. He tours with Lady Gaga for chrissake. And he's 90.

So your remarks towards me are wrong. But you have to show respect in order to receive it, and that's a lesson you should learn....or perhaps that's just not in your nature. You need to stop looking down your nose at everyone that doesn't see things the way that you do and quit playing the "old man" card as if everyone is out to get you. You bring that attitude on with your condescension and closed mindedness. There's no question that you have some car knowledge to share but shoving it down people's throats with your own agenda is not the way to do it.

Last edited by VETTE-NV; Yesterday at 02:02 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:22 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by VETTE-NV View Post
The following remarks are meant with the best intentions.

You arrogantly assume you know the financial status of everyone on this forum, what they want, and what they're going to get. You, who claim to be a hard-core Corvette guy, are insulting the car by assuming whatever GM does will be nothing more than a cheap copycat. So what's the deal? Do you see anything that isn't a C6 Z06 as a threat to you and your comfort zone? Are you truly in fear of change, progress, and evolution?

I can afford any car I want (well...maybe not a Veyron...although I did ride in Floyd's while shooting him for All Access) and I'm currently contemplating doing a bucket list (pardon the expression) car while I'm still young enough to enjoy it. My heart, however, is still in the Corvette, the car I have owned and loved since I was old enough to drive. I'm going to wait and see what the mid-engine model brings before I make any decision.

As far as your remark that I have no respect for senior citizens, you couldn't be more wrong. In my business, I work with many people. For example, I spent two days with Tony Bennett last year. I have never seen a more energetic, open-minded, and productive individual. When he's not singing, he's painting. When he's not painting, he's working on improving his already brilliant show. I was astounded at his work ethic and they way he embraces the new....how he embraces life, young people, and progress in general. And he does it all without disrespecting the young just because he is old. He gets joy from learning new things and he literally wore me out with his perfectionism. He tours with Lady Gaga for chrissake. And he's 90.

So your remarks towards me are wrong. But you have to show respect in order to receive it, and that's a lesson you should learn....or perhaps that's just not in your nature. You need to stop looking down your nose at everyone that doesn't see things the way that you do and quit playing the "old man" card as if everyone is out to get you. You bring that attitude on with your condescension and closed mindedness. There's no question that you have some car knowledge to share but shoving it down people's throats with your own agenda is not the way to do it.


1) I posted my opinion. That is clearly indicated when I said "What I see on this forum....". I is the keyword. Too bad you don't understand English.

2) I did not say ALL, I clearly said ".....some guys...". some is the keyword. "Some" does not mean "all". Too bad you don't understand English.

My post was my opinion.

The rest of your post is hogwash...in my opinion.

Last edited by JoesC5; Yesterday at 02:24 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 02:50 PM   #75
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1) I posted my opinion. That is clearly indicated when I said "What I see on this forum....". I is the keyword. Too bad you don't understand English.

2) I did not say ALL, I clearly said ".....some guys...". some is the keyword. "Some" does not mean "all". Too bad you don't understand English.

My post was my opinion.

The rest of your post is hogwash...in my opinion.
OK, Joe.
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Old Yesterday, 07:07 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by JoesC5 View Post
1) I posted my opinion. That is clearly indicated when I said "What I see on this forum....". I is the keyword. Too bad you don't understand English.

2) I did not say ALL, I clearly said ".....some guys...". some is the keyword. "Some" does not mean "all". Too bad you don't understand English.

My post was my opinion.

The rest of your post is hogwash...in my opinion.
Joe
I think that your not looking at what the Corvette is used for what I would say the majority of Corvette guys use their Vett for and that is as a Toy.

I believe most Vett buyers do not buy their car as a daily driver. Most are just a toy and most owner have 2 or 3 added vehicles in addition to the Vett that is a weekend Toy.

I also think you underestimate when you say Vett guys want a cheap knock off of a Lamborghini.

I owned a Lamborghini Gallardo. I loved the car and absolutely hated the reliability and maintenance cost that came with the ownership.

I had to ship the car 150 miles to closet dealership and basic maintenance and warranty work. Oil change cost over $450.00. Replace lost gas cap $399.00.

I have owned Corvette my entire life. I could buy anything I would like within reason say less than 300k and that's just because no toy is worth more to me than that amount of doe!

I currently own a 2016 Z06 Z07 Callaway SC757. I am in it at well over 130k between purchase price of the Z06/ Z07 110k plus the Callaway package and addition of Ron Davis racing radiator and new wheels and tires because I was not comfortable driving the car with factory Michelin cup tires that have non tread and would be dangerous if I got caught in a Florida down thunderstorm.


I guess my point is two things.

Not all of us need the utility of a front engine rear drive Corvette. I grant that your correct that you can put 2 weeks of luggage in the current design and it's more practical.

But that being said there are Corvette guys that just want a super car toy that can be serviced at a local Chevrolet dealership.

Also very important to me is that it's American made and it's a CORVETTE.

Assuming that GM does a great job on the design and I am confident that they will knock our socks off. Then I would be happy to pay 150k to 200k or the same money as a Lamborghini Huracan.

Chevrolet can continue to build a front GT layout with starting price of 60k for a Stingray and 75k GS along with the 85k and up Z06 and I am sure the 120k ZR1. All front engine rear drive layout.

Then GM can build an American made rear mid engine super car that is 150k plus plus plus.

This way there is a Vett for all different types of buyers and that buyers wants and needs.

No reason the Front engine GT platform cannot exist along side the Rear mid engine Vett.

I seriously doubt GM won't safe guard against losing the entry level buyer or abandone the front engine platform.

But if they don't go with rear mid option they cannot claim to compete with best sports car in the world.

Joe you also state that the Ferrari 812 Superfast proofs that you can get the power to the ground with the engine in front. I am sorry Joe but I think your talking out your rear end with that comment.

Have you driven an 812 Superfast?? I can tell you my Callaway with only 757 hp and 777ft of torque and their is no way I can put all that power to the ground.

I can literally tromp the throttle at 80mph in 3 Rd gear and break the tire loose.

This is not an opinion but fact from a guy who ownes a high horsepower front engine rear drive.

It a whole different ball game than your C6 Z06 with 505 hp and yes I also owned a brand new Z06 in 2007 so I am speaking as someone who can compare both Vetts. Loved the Z06 in 2007 hated the cheap interior that was not up to the quality on a 75k sports car.

In fact I got rid of that Vett and did not buy another until the C7 came out in took delivery in Oct. Of 2013 just because I could not live with the plastic interior and horrible switch gear of the C6.

So there are guys like you who want and need utility in your Vett and many more like myself that it's just a toy and don't need the same utility.

Those of us can also buy whatever we want but right now it's not offered. An American made rear mid engine super car made buy Chevrolet with Corvette heritage.

If the front engine Platform dies it won't be because GM killed it it will be consumer demand chose the new rear mid engine and stopped buying the front engine platform.

I don't see that happening so hopefully you get what you want should you ever decide you want the newer Corvette and Guys like me can buy what we want out of a Toy.

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Old Yesterday, 07:18 PM   #77
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I think it would be great Corvette if it was lighter, less bells and whistles, and decent tail lights, and a dual overhead cam straight six...and a 5 speed manual.
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Old Yesterday, 10:54 PM   #78
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In spite of the weird rear bumper(?), it's a big improvement over the California T (which is a big improvement over the initial California).

For many years I have felt the modern AM design is the most beautiful and perfected of all Grand Tourers.
Simple, elegant, straightforward...it's as good as it gets.
I would have one if there was a dealership nearby.
I've had the hots for the AM Vantage V8 since 2006 but the reliability issues chased me away. After my nightmare with two different Mercedes, I'm more skeptical than ever of european cars. There's no doubting their initial quality, it's their long term reliability and ridiculous repairs costs that bother me.

The new Vanquish roadster has me drooling, however. Under Tata, reliability seems to be improved so it's back on my short list. If I had more than a 3 car garage at this time, I would probably already have made a move. I'm in negotiations to buy the property next door to my home to convert to a studio, edit suite, and office. It also has a three car garage so I can keep the C7, which I love, as well. So hopefully a year or so from now I'll have either a ME Corvette or some other exotic.

Or Trump will screw up the economy and get us into a world war which will make everything moot.
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Old Today, 03:24 AM   #79
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I've had the hots for the AM Vantage V8 since 2006 but the reliability issues chased me away. After my nightmare with two different Mercedes, I'm more skeptical than ever of european cars. There's no doubting their initial quality, it's their long term reliability and ridiculous repairs costs that bother me.
FWIW, I would never own or hold onto a Euro car (or any car) that is out of warranty.
It's not worth the worry IMO.
Quote:
The new Vanquish roadster has me drooling, however. Under Tata, reliability seems to be improved so it's back on my short list. If I had more than a 3 car garage at this time, I would probably already have made a move. I'm in negotiations to buy the property next door to my home to convert to a studio, edit suite, and office. It also has a three car garage so I can keep the C7, which I love, as well. So hopefully a year or so from now I'll have either a ME Corvette or some other exotic.
VERY nice.

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Or Trump will screw up the economy and get us into a world war which will make everything moot.
LOL...or not.
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